Club Sale | It’s done!

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It's fun to read anti-Jassim posts.... posters are hysterical/ frothing at the mouth.
 
Sultan said:
This a question for those accusing others of being morally bankrupt.

I have had no say in who United is owned by, or which players they buy, and sell. Basically, no say in the running of the club. I am just a person with deep feelings for the club. To the point, it spoils my mood when they lose. I spend hours reading and writing about the club and the players. These feelings are difficult to explain to anyone without having been in this situation and they just can't be switched off.

I'd love nothing more but for things to change for the better in Qatar and the club. What are my options?
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I don't think you should listen to anyone anyway. We all have our reasons for loving the club and we all have our tolerance levels, it's a very individual matter.
 
Rood said:
Yes there was, I don't know how many voted and if it would be the same result today as a lot changed since the early polls when the 2 bidders first emerged
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You have said the same numerous times on the podcast. Unlike others, you also clearly have done a lot of research also.
 
Rood said:
Shame you don't actually stay on topic and respond to what I posted rather than construct straw men based on things I've never said
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Just ignore the noise; the vocal minority are getting more and more desperate in their arguments because they can see how the sale of the club is going and who is likely to be the new owner, and they don’t know how to handle it.

Bottom line is, new owners who fully clear the debt and actually invest in the club and infrastructure are what is best for Manchester United, and the anti-Qatar gang are running headlong into an existential crisis over how to reconcile their love for the club with their morality. I suspect a fair amount of the vitriol being aimed at anyone who doesn’t share their world view stems from them slowly realising they are going to end up still supporting Manchester United even in the event of a Qatari takeover, rendering them ultimately the same as those of us who aren’t putting much importance on the moral aspect, and they are struggling to accept that is their only choice beyond abandoning the club.

I think we’d all do better to stop arguing about it and show some compassion all round.
 
Sultan said:
This a question for those accusing others of being morally bankrupt.

I have had no say in who United is owned by, or which players they buy, and sell. Basically, no say in the running of the club. I am just a person with deep feelings for the club. To the point, it spoils my mood when they lose. I spend hours reading and writing about the club and the players. These feelings are difficult to explain to anyone without having been in this situation and they just can't be switched off.

I'd love nothing more but for things to change for the better in Qatar and the club. What are my options?
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I’d imagine you’re unlikely to get a reasonable and rational response to this question.
 
Eddy_JukeZ said:
Hope your life turns around soon, but yeah I agree with you.

I can't control who the owner is of my favorite club. Am I 100% thrilled on either option? No. But I've hated the Glazers for years too and I still support the club. I also use football/redcafe as an escape/distraction from life too. But as one gets older and goes through life, you get a sense of priorities. I don't beat myself up over losses or bad sporting news like I did 10-15 years ago and let it ruin my mood.

If Jassim/Qatar becoming the owners is a huge problem for people and they don't want to keep supporting their boyhood/favorite club, I feel bad for them, but it's so minuscule compared to what can actually happen to an individual.
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Chief123 said:
Sorry to hear that my man. Hope things get better soon. Stay strong buddy.
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Thank you both. I’m sure things will get there in the end
 
moses said:
Yes, but Rood,, you are not the vast majority of fans even if you share this viewpoint here and now.

You have been loudly and consistently banging a Qatari drum for a while now.

Just own it.
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I've shared that viewpoint consistently for weeks now both on here and podcast and Twitter - feel free to go and check for yourself

Seems you still can't accept that Qatar hosted a successful World Cup, this is a completely different topic though so no need to conflate the two
 
Rood said:
This seems a very one eyed view of things to me and you won't be surprised to hear that I see a very different picture.

There is the majority (based on polls here) who prefer the Sheikh Jassim bid as it seems the best for the future success and health of the club in terms of debts, the stadium etc.

Then there is a vocal minority who are antiQatar, I don't actually see many arguments in favour of INEOS apart from 'well it's not Qatar'. I can understand some of the worries presented but don't agree with them all.

In this group there is an extreme faction (and it's mostly these posters who turn this into a heated hysterical discourse) so entrenched in their position that they say they will boycott the club with the most extreme saying they prefer the club suffers and even gets relegated or goes bankrupt (not that either is likely) under the Glazers rather than Sheikh Jassim takeover.
These lot also go around claiming some kind of patronising moral superiority - this extremist POV is absolutely mental to me as it quite clearly isn't in the best interests of Manchester United and that is what is most important to me and many others.

Although there are antiJim arguments, I don't see anyone saying they will stop supporting if INEOS takeover so no extreme positions on that side.

Personally I prefer Sheikh Jassim based on the info available to us but, despite what you may think, it's not a strong preference as there are too many unknowns about both bids to be nailing colours to either mast so I'd still take Sir Jim over the Glazers and just hope he has learnt from mistakes at Nice.

The vast majority of fans that I know would sit in this category of just wanting the takeover to be done, either way, as soon as possible so that ETH can get on with his planning for next season. Seems the most reasonable point of view to me too, but obviously the extremists will not agree.
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Good post.

I’ll add whilst you don’t hear much pro-Ineos talk you do hear a lot of dismissals of Brexit & wilful ignorance towards what impacts a global chemicals company has on people. As you go on to say people have become so entrenched in their positions.
 
Rood said:
I've shared that viewpoint consistently for weeks now both on here and podcast and Twitter - feel free to go and check for yourself

Seems you still can't accept that Qatar hosted a successful World Cup, this is a completely different topic though so no need to conflate the two
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What’s your podcast/Twitter Rood?
 
RedBanker said:
It's fun to read anti-Jassim posts.... posters are hysterical/ frothing at the mouth.
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It’s actually sad to see. Especially because everyone here has the common goal of wanting the best for Man Utd.

However, it seems the inevitable Jassim takeover is leading a small minority to spill over their feelings and create quite a toxic environment. It was always going to be a divisive thread from the moment the thread was created.
 
RedBanker said:
It's fun to read anti-Jassim posts.... posters are hysterical/ frothing at the mouth.
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If you think this is bad you should see r/reddevils whenever Qatar seem favoured in the press, makes this thread seem like an academical meeting of the minds.
 
Sultan said:
This a question for those accusing others of being morally bankrupt.

I have had no say in who United is owned by, or which players they buy, and sell. Basically, no say in the running of the club. I am just a person with deep feelings for the club. To the point, it spoils my mood when they lose. I spend hours reading and writing about the club and the players. These feelings are difficult to explain to anyone without having been in this situation and they just can't be switched off.

I'd love nothing more but for things to change for the better in Qatar and the club. What are my options?
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I'm genuinely not sure whether Qatar buying United would be a bad thing or a good thing for the people in Qatar.

I'm suspicious of those who tell me there is only one possible answer and that I have inferior morals and I'm 'disingenuous' if I don't agree with their own point of view.

I think your best option is to carry on supporting our club, and as for Qatar itself criticise where you feel it is warranted and praise if progress occurs.
 
moses said:
The really odd thing about such a heated debate is that it isn't two clashing ideologies but it seems to be a group of people with concerns and another group just shutting down the concerns.

It's isn't a row between people who think the treatment of migrant workers is abhorrent and another group defending forced labour and non payment. It's one group with concerns and another group shutting down the conversations with mitigation, accusations of racism, platitudes and whataboutery.

It's the language and cant of politics in a public forum. It's very depressing.
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A lot of handwaving going on for sure.
 
moses said:
The really odd thing about such a heated debate is that it isn't two clashing ideologies but it seems to be a group of people with concerns and another group just shutting down the concerns.

It's isn't a row between people who think the treatment of migrant workers is abhorrent and another group defending forced labour and non payment. It's one group with concerns and another group shutting down the conversations with mitigation, accusations of racism, platitudes and whataboutery.

It's the language and cant of politics in a public forum. It's very depressing.
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Do you have any concerns for the communities in with petro-chemicals are mined?

Am I allowed to think that the mistreatment of migrant workers is abhorrent & that the destruction of this world as a whole by chemical giants, & the knock on impacts it has had on multiple communities is bad also?

The misuse of the word whataboutery really does prevail on this forum, you can’t say what the ‘row’ is then dismiss any questioning as whataboutery. The fact that a vocal number of forum’s members are [& correctly may I add] concerned about migrant workers but seem to not be concerned with the way SJR went about Brexit & the global impacts the way he makes his money has draws questions. I’m baffled as to how a seemingly intelligent bunch pedestal one over another when they can in fact be problems with multiple things.
 
Ahriman said:
If you think this is bad you should see r/reddevils whenever Qatar seem favoured in the press, makes this thread seem like an academical meeting of the minds.
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I stopped opening take over threads on r/reddevils and r/soccer a long time ago. Feels like an echo chamber with people of any different views being abused and downvoted.
 
Rood said:
This seems a very one eyed view of things to me and you won't be surprised to hear that I see a very different picture.

There is the majority (based on polls here) who prefer the Sheikh Jassim bid as it seems the best for the future success and health of the club in terms of debts, the stadium etc.

Then there is a vocal minority who are antiQatar, I don't actually see many arguments in favour of INEOS apart from 'well it's not Qatar'. I can understand some of the worries presented but don't agree with them all.

In this group there is an extreme faction (and it's mostly these posters who turn this into a heated hysterical discourse) so entrenched in their position that they say they will boycott the club with the most extreme saying they prefer the club suffers and even gets relegated or goes bankrupt (not that either is likely) under the Glazers rather than Sheikh Jassim takeover.
These lot also go around claiming some kind of patronising moral superiority - this extremist POV is absolutely mental to me as it quite clearly isn't in the best interests of Manchester United and that is what is most important to me and many others.

Although there are antiJim arguments, I don't see anyone saying they will stop supporting if INEOS takeover so no extreme positions on that side.

Personally I prefer Sheikh Jassim based on the info available to us but, despite what you may think, it's not a strong preference as there are too many unknowns about both bids to be nailing colours to either mast so I'd still take Sir Jim over the Glazers and just hope he has learnt from mistakes at Nice.

The vast majority of fans that I know would sit in this category of just wanting the takeover to be done, either way, as soon as possible so that ETH can get on with his planning for next season. Seems the most reasonable point of view to me too, but obviously the extremists will not agree.
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Its easy to say things on the Internet to 'win' a debate or to claim the moral high-ground because you're largely anonymous and therefore unaccountable.

I imagine some (not all) of the people condemning the Qatari bid won't change their behaviour in the slightest if they are successful.

I can tell you I would rather the club was owned by a consortium of supporters or a good old philanthropic local businessman but since the game sold its soul to the highest bidder a long time ago and priced these folk out, I will unashamedly take the option which presents the best chance of us winning on the pitch - so long as its approved by the FA/Premier League and within the rules
 
Chief123 said:
What’s your podcast/Twitter Rood?
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It's right here! On last episode, takeover debate in the last part of the show starting around 0:45:00




Mr Pigeon said:
Having to ask this question should result in a ban.

The United Hour. Arguably the best United related podcast I've listened to in the last thirty minutes.
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:D cheers mate!

Next episode hopefully to be recorded tonight
 
So, when is Qatar taking over the club?
Will there be time to replace some staff with competent people, before the new season starts?
I'd also like to see some deadwood leave the club and some new faces arrive before the season starts.
 
Crackers said:
Despite the heartbreak that was a brilliant thread. Muppet shitposting at its finest
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This brings back memories. There wasn't this toxicity that a decade of crap has brewed. We were optimistic, the photos of Agent Dave and Thiago at the u21 World Cup together, a note of some kind on the ball saying see you in Manchester? (May have dreamed that last part) and best of all, the legend who's name escapes me, made the funniest Gif I have seen at the time of DDG/Thiago in the setting of Terminator 2. The name of that poster escapes me and I haven't seen him post here after my decade long break back to the Caf
 
Rood said:
It's right here! On last episode, takeover debate in the last part of the show starting around 0:45:00






:D cheers mate!

Next episode hopefully to be recorded tonight
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Woah, don't get too excited. The only other podcast I've listened to in the last half hour is Stretford Paddock.

Ooh, new episode coming soon then. Any clues on what it'll be focusing on?
 
@Rood

Nice podcast! Enjoyed that. May I ask, who is the English gentleman on there? I recognise his voice from another YouTube show.
 
Mr Pigeon said:
Woah, don't get too excited. The only other podcast I've listened to in the last half hour is Stretford Paddock.

Ooh, new episode coming soon then. Any clues on what it'll be focusing on?
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General season review and special guest Dr Tom Crawford who had been on last season with some kind of mathematical football analysis
 
Zora said:
How would they have got rid of the Glazers back then? With a drive-by posting?
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Crowd-fund a visit from whatever Mafia-equivalent was strongest in Florida circa 2005 to make Malcolm and co. a (non)offer they couldn't refuse...
 
Zora said:
@Rood

Nice podcast! Enjoyed that. May I ask, who is the English gentleman on there? I recognise his voice from another YouTube show.
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Cheers mate

Assuming it was the latest episode then the English voice is me! That show was with @AR87 from New York
 
Lentwood said:
Its easy to say things on the Internet to 'win' a debate or to claim the moral high-ground because you're largely anonymous and therefore unaccountable.

I imagine some (not all) of the people condemning the Qatari bid won't change their behaviour in the slightest if they are successful.

I can tell you I would rather the club was owned by a consortium of supporters or a good old philanthropic local businessman but since the game sold its soul to the highest bidder a long time ago and priced these folk out, I will unashamedly take the option which presents the best chance of us winning on the pitch - so long as its approved by the FA/Premier League and within the rules
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Yes I agree with a lot of that - I've said many times that I absolutely recognise that both bids have all sorts of negative baggage attached but there are no ethical billionaires bidding for our club so I'm just looking for who offers the best chance of success for my football club
 
Sultan said:
This a question for those accusing others of being morally bankrupt.

I have had no say in who United is owned by, or which players they buy, and sell. Basically, no say in the running of the club. I am just a person with deep feelings for the club. To the point, it spoils my mood when they lose. I spend hours reading and writing about the club and the players. These feelings are difficult to explain to anyone without having been in this situation and they just can't be switched off.

I'd love nothing more but for things to change for the better in Qatar and the club. What are my options?
Click to expand...

It's easy with the Glazers and INEOS (to the extent they are business people) - just don't give them your money. That's all they want.

With the Qataris and INEOS (to the extent that they are greenwashers) it's also simple - just don't give them your approval or respect. That's what they want. It's complicated with Qatar by the fact they are seeking approval for their entire nation and culture. If you withhold your respect too much then you can - perhaps legitimately - be accused of zenophobia or racism.

Remember when Gazprom sponsored the Champions League? Now they literally have their own brand troop divisions fighting in Ukraine and we shiver in winter. You embolden bad people at your peril.
 
glazed said:
It's easy with the Glazers and INEOS (to the extent they are business people) - just don't give them your money. That's all they want.

With the Qataris and INEOS (to the extent that they are greenwashers) it's also simple - just don't give them your approval or respect. That's what they want. It's complicated with Qatar by the fact they are seeking approval for their entire nation and culture. If you withhold your respect too much then you can - perhaps legitimately - be accused of zenophobia or racism.

Remember when Gazprom sponsored the Champions League? Now they literally have their own brand troop divisions fighting in Ukraine and we shiver in winter. You embolden bad people at your peril.
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You can respect the people of Qatar, but not the government and their actions.
 
moses said:
I've seen equally stubborn debates, but usually with two dogmas. This is ether.

Nobody is open to be convinced, but convinced of what? There is no counter arguments. Just people undermining thr premise of any concerns.

The only argument other than stfu is that economic cooperation leads to progress. I've never seen that, we've been trading with nefarious stats for decades and they rarely improve. It's a capitalist fallacy. The capitalist truth is that most wealth has been made off the back of oppression and also we as consumers need the cheap labour around the world , but that bleak message is rarely a vote winner.
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That wasnt actually the argument, because regardless of what happens with United we will continue to cooperate economically with these states, buying oil and gas and selling weapons. The argument was that a closer cultural alignment, which isn't based on trade, but actual cultural stuff, films, sports etc. Will lead to progress, and we have seen that starting in Saudi Arabia. Still a million miles from perfect but things are far better for women there even compared to 5 years ago, so if you're saying you've never seen that, cultural alignment changing the values of another country, then there's your example
 
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