Club Sale | It’s done!

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This a question for those accusing others of being morally bankrupt.

I have had no say in who United is owned by, or which players they buy, and sell. Basically, no say in the running of the club. I am just a person with deep feelings for the club. To the point, it spoils my mood when they lose. I spend hours reading and writing about the club and the players. These feelings are difficult to explain to anyone without having been in this situation and they just can't be switched off.

I'd love nothing more but for things to change for the better in Qatar and the club. What are my options?

I said to @VeevaVee @Rado_N and @esmufc07 last night, the Glazers have owned the club for the last 18 years and despite that United fans still feel that there is enough of the club they are still emotionally connected to argue that the next owners will be the one that ruins the club.

The truth is that almost everyone is going to still keep supporting United because it’s a hell of a lot more than the owners that actually defines the club and the bond we have with it.
 
I'm genuinely not sure whether Qatar buying United would be a bad thing or a good thing for the people in Qatar.

I'm suspicious of those who tell me there is only one possible answer and that I have inferior morals and I'm 'disingenuous' if I don't agree with their own point of view.

I think your best option is to carry on supporting our club, and as for Qatar itself criticise where you feel it is warranted and praise if progress occurs.
That's my feelings.
 
I said to @VeevaVee @Rado_N and @esmufc07 last night, the Glazers have owned the club for the last 18 years and despite that United fans still feel that there is enough of the club they are still emotionally connected to argue that the next owners will be the one that ruins the club.

The truth is that almost everyone is going to still keep supporting United because it’s a hell of a lot more than the owners that actually defines the club and the bond we have with it.
Exactly.

Just awaiting termination of this fiasco.
 
@moses

Are you pro INEOS? Just out of interest.

I wouldn't say that.

I just have real issues with any state other than the UK government or a branch of that owning what is essentially a northern English cultural heirloom.

The fact that state is abhorrent me on so many levels compounds the issue.

I have come to terms with capitalist leeches owning the club, helped by my day to day acceptance of it in other spheres.

States and corporations going head to head for hegemony should alarm everyone. But it doesn't seem to.
 
This very much depends on your geographical location. You will find the USA will also have terrible a reputation in certain parts of the world.

That is true but I would suggest those parts of the world tend to be inhabited by poor people at the sharp end of US excess and Americans don't really care what they think. They scarcely care what anyone thinks to be honest, as there are plenty of people lining up to visit, live and work there.
 
That is true but I would suggest those parts of the world tend to be inhabited by poor people at the sharp end of US excess and Americans don't really care what they think.
That’s a good point the opinion of those people matter less
 
That’s a good point the opinion of those people matter less

They matter less economically and to the Americans. We are talking about football, sports washing and marketing here, not actual ethics.
 
I said to @VeevaVee @Rado_N and @esmufc07 last night, the Glazers have owned the club for the last 18 years and despite that United fans still feel that there is enough of the club they are still emotionally connected to argue that the next owners will be the one that ruins the club.

The truth is that almost everyone is going to still keep supporting United because it’s a hell of a lot more than the owners that actually defines the club and the bond we have with it.
First I’ve heard of it
 
What can be achieved in terms of a big difference is going to be over a generation or two, considering how far behind they are where they need to be. But it's clearly a step in the right direction
Asymptotic progress is the best progress clearly.
 
This very much depends on your geographical location. You will find the USA will also have terrible a reputation in certain parts of the world.


The nation state USA has an awful reputation on here. We are not led by parochialism. I think it's insulting to people to think they don't know their own minds.
 
I'm genuinely not sure whether Qatar buying United would be a bad thing or a good thing for the people in Qatar.

I'm suspicious of those who tell me there is only one possible answer and that I have inferior morals and I'm 'disingenuous' if I don't agree with their own point of view.

I think your best option is to carry on supporting our club, and as for Qatar itself criticise where you feel it is warranted and praise if progress occurs.

Where did someone call anyone disingenuous just because they disagreed?

This sort of invention doesn't help.
 
Where did someone call anyone disingenuous just because they disagreed?

This sort of invention doesn't help.

Posters who’ve suggested that Utd being owned by a prominent Qatari consortium would be a good thing for progress in Qatar have been called disingenuous repeatedly, as the go to response.

Essentially being told, ‘I’ve decided you’re not allowed to believe that’.

Beyond that, BOTH ‘sides’ have repeatedly labelled each other disingenuous…

Nah. People are being disingenuous.

They don’t believe what they say - obviously we’ve all heard the evidence, but rather they believe they can post the right amount of words that hides their true lack of morals.

The amount of disingenuous arguing on this thread is examples of that.

Ok well his argument seems disingenuous then and it is just a formality. More daft arguments to contend with.

Seems disingenuous to me to be posting quotes from 10 year old articles without links - you well know that lots has changed for the better since then as we discussed it to death during the World Cup

It's disingenuous to imply it wasn't genuine.
 
The nation state USA has an awful reputation on here. We are not led by parochialism. I think it's insulting to people to think they don't know their own minds.
It's not narrow-mindedness and not directed at anyone in particular. I was replying to the poster who said these countries had a terrible reputation. It's a fact and I stand by my opinion the USA, and Middle East have terrible reputations depending on geographical locations.
 
It's not narrow-mindedness and not directed at anyone in particular. I was replying to the poster who said these countries had a terrible reputation. It's a fact and I stand by my opinion the USA, and Middle East have terrible reputations depending on geographical locations.

Absolutely. I agree, and deservedly so.
 
@t00l
Not after therapy or your approval. I'm just highlighting that a section of our (online) fan base are reveling in fellow supporters anxieties about the future of the club. It's crass at best.

For a lot of people, united has been a significant part of their life since birth. To see something they have grown up with and been apart off for decades turn into something they despise is not easily dismissed. Seeing posters on here saying that they hope those people end up miserable about it is pretty disgusting.

This thread is the pits.
I don't know what section of fans you're talking about. I only talk and represent myself, I could say something as a joke to wind up people but in all honesty, I have no interest in caring about what could upset people or not. I try my best to stay within the site's guidelines and that's it
 
Vile but at least you are honest.
The emoji is a big hint that things aren't that serious. All of you's need to take a step back and actually realize we're talking about football and half the time it's not that serious, or rather it shouldn't be.
Whether Jassim or Jim wins, it won't change a damn thing in my life
 
Posters who’ve suggested that Utd being owned by a prominent Qatari consortium would be a good thing for progress in Qatar have been called disingenuous repeatedly, as the go to response.

Essentially being told, ‘I’ve decided you’re not allowed to believe that’.

Beyond that, BOTH ‘sides’ have repeatedly labelled each other disingenuous…

I'm glad you quoted me. I posted an article, stated it was from the from the Guardian and named the organisation that the person quoted was from. Rood ignored the whole of the post and focused on the fact I didn't link to the article. I later linked to it and said his response was disingenuous, because it was, not because he disagreed, because he didn't.
 
Why would his hands necessarily be tied? Not a finance guy by trade, so maybe better qualified types can advise but... get agreements from prospective owner, get temporary credit line based upon likely takeover (likely, because all of these things are 'informally' cleared before official bids are launched at this level) and then make repayment part of the final price or to be cleared as first order of business...

It won't. They aren't spending 7 months on this without knowing it's a formality.
 
The emoji is a big hint that things aren't that serious. All of you's need to take a step back and actually realize we're talking about football and half the time it's not that serious, or rather it shouldn't be.
Whether Jassim or Jim wins, it won't change a damn thing in my life

If you realised that we're not talking about football you might be less glib.
 
I struggle to believe Ratcliffe secured financing in principle with the business plan of "running it for the lolz".

There's something major that isn't being said about his plans for us
 
I struggle to believe Ratcliffe secured financing in principle with the business plan of "running it for the lolz".

There's something major that isn't being said about his plans for us

the loans will be secured against Ineos, not United
 
Absolutely. I agree, and deservedly so.

I would say both deserve their terrible reputation for different reasons. But for better or worse Manchester United is an English club and the UK is culturally heavily aligned with America. I would infinitely prefer Qatari ownership to Glazer ownership. But I would rather live in America than Qatar assuming comparable income.
 
I'm glad you quoted me. I posted an article, stated it was from the from the Guardian and named the organisation that the person quoted was from. Rood ignored the whole of the post and focused on the fact I didn't link to the article. I later linked to it and said his response was disingenuous, because it was, not because he disagreed, because he didn't.

It's a very Internet way to argue: something is said for a specific reason, while the response generalizes everything away. In this case "person X is being disingenuous for reason Y" is magically transformed into "people are being disingenuous because they disagree".

This rhetoric tries to achieve two things. You don't have to engage with what's written, because it's all melted down into 'disagreement', and you also deflect away from the person in question. Rood vanishes, and instead becomes the group "posters who’ve suggested that Utd being owned by a prominent Qatari consortium would be a good thing for progress in Qatar". It's all very boring.
 
the loans will be secured against Ineos, not United


That isn't how it works. Banks loaning a business will want to know why and want to see business plans and repayment plans and how. In most of the last few years Ineos has lost money after its obligations are accounted and pay for.

Loading a business with £4bn worth of debt yet having a £4bn asset you don't intend to leverage the revenues of to repay it is fecking lunacy and no bank or financer is agreeing to those terms

This fantasy bullshit needs to stop
 
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