They are not.
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They are not.
Qatar and perhaps the middle east as a whole has been trying to develop their perception and standing in the west for some time. Taking ownership of major sports teams is kind of a moot point/ side story to more significant endeavors like partnering with a world renowned IVY league university to establish a Qatar campus for medicine for instance:
https://qatar-weill.cornell.edu/
And that was over twenty years ago. There's a big enough following of United in the middle east that in sure it's one part general Qatar globalization project and one part football fandom.
I just had a thought that confirms to me that getting in the Qatari investment will be the best thing for the club.
There are no guarantees that SJR will invest in a big way on infrastructure at the club, whereas the SJ bid has talked at length about devolping the ground, training facilities and other facilities close to the ground.
This is a legacy investment...something that will last for generations, and will ensure the Qatari story will be told for generations too.
Now look at each town centre in the UK and you will see historic legacy buildings that were built with money from colonialism, exploitation, slavery and impoverished masses living in dreadful conditions.
Because these buildings exist we talk about them, how they were created...by whom....what was their involvement?
If the money from these appalling episodes had just been used to buy ephemera then the families and business owners concerned may have got away with what they did.
So when Qatari investment comes to build a new stadium they will also have to consider...how will THEY be talked about by future generations...and maybe they will begin to address the areas of concerns many people have?
There are no guarantees that SJR will invest in a big way on infrastructure at the club, whereas the SJ bid has talked at length about devolping the ground, training facilities and other facilities close to the ground.
This is a legacy investment...something that will last for generations, and will ensure the Qatari story will be told for generations too.
Now look at each town centre in the UK and you will see historic legacy buildings that were built with money from colonialism, exploitation, slavery and impoverished masses living in dreadful conditions.
Because these buildings exist we talk about them, how they were created...by whom....what was their involvement?
If the money from these appalling episodes had just been used to buy ephemera then the families and business owners concerned may have got away with what they did.
So when Qatari investment comes to build a new stadium they will also have to consider...how will THEY be talked about by future generations...and maybe they will begin to address the areas of concerns many people have?
This is true of much of the Middle East. Lots of oil and gas money but no respect, which usually means they have to spend their money to buy it.
You can't really buy respect. A change to higher standards is needed.
You can buy the perception of respect through things like the WC and buying Man United. Both global brands admired by hundreds of millions around the world (billions in the case of the WC). The higher standard issue (whether for labor rights or otherwise) will be harder given that these are mostly autocracies.
Investments in "soft power" really aren't unique to the Middle East. Every country that wants to exert any influence on the world stage does it. Of course, the way they go about doing it can drastically differ from place to place.
True, although in democratic systems, soft power is generally an emergent property of private companies. Coca Cola, Hollywood, Levis denim jeans, McDonalds, Microsoft, and a slew of other companies built US soft power during the cold war. When its done deliberately by autocratic governments, there's usually a more nefarious slant to it.
I respectfully disagree. If anything, buying big brands actually focuses more on the country and its ongoing issues. This thread and the WC cup is a prime examples. The world press and online talks are common with people who would otherwise not be focusing on the country and pointing fingers.
I would think the best way to gain respect is governed by the country's justice system. On a side note, you'll find the USA is amongst the most hated in the world for how it has gone about employing its foreign policies. Qatar and the likes would pale into insignificance.
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The focus is generally short lived, virtually no one cares who owns Coca Cola or Micky D's, they will buy the products anyway, Micky D's is still great, so is Coca Cola, nothing bad happened so what's the fuss about - that's why the do it
A silly question but what are the guarantees than SJ will renovate OT or even training facilities etc? What If it was just peddled to get Fans on his side?
I mean this is the stick we are beating SJR with.
At this point I just want Glazers Gone. EtH is on cusp of something and those leeches are finding a way to drag us down. Deep down I think SJ will be a better option if everything he promised comes to fruition . But just a question I thought I LL ask.
I mean this is the stick we are beating SJR with.
At this point I just want Glazers Gone. EtH is on cusp of something and those leeches are finding a way to drag us down. Deep down I think SJ will be a better option if everything he promised comes to fruition . But just a question I thought I LL ask.
Coco Cola is not going to be talked about in a context of a country. Not owned by a state. If anything happens either winning trophies or losing will be judged on the ownership/Qatar. If anything the coaches and mismanagement of the club will get a pass to a degree from the press.
What's wrong with what he wrote?
SJR has not said he will renovate facilities. Jassim has said he will spend on infrastructure. If that is just lip service we will have to wait before finding out.
Thanks. Probably pinched it from somewhere.
Well said, i think you've captured the dynamic very well. With respect to the bolded, i think you are spot on and it will be interesting to see how much pushback manifests from the senate and legislative bodies in the US in response to the proposed PGA and Liv merger. Continued autocratic soft power expansion into sport may face a hiccup or two yet.
And a lot of people are claiming Brexit Jimbo's bid is nothing more than Glazers 2.0 (it might be), yet Jassim's bid is just a die hard United fan with a load of money to throw around because he wants to see the club he loves so much back on top. Based on virtually zero evidence.
Both of these opinions are far more prevalent on here.
I doubt either of them are United fans so it's a moot point. Neither of these bids seem like they are motivated by a love of United in my opinion.
Also, there’s been ‘a lot of scrutiny of Jim’s bid but not Jassim’s’!?
It’s literally the opposite!
I'm talking about from the majority of the folks in favour of the Jassim bid. People buying into any claim coming from his camp. Case in point like he's a die hard United, yeah of course he is.
Nothing.
You can’t be serious? The very fact alone that most fans in this thread and in general now massively prefer having Qatar as owners over SJR shows just how well their sports washing machine works. In the eyes of many they are being portrayed as the GOOD guys.
Yeah I see a lot negative spin on everything related to the Ineos bid but very little of that energy from the same people on the Qatar bid.
Though there's a reason for that I think, the vast majority of those people know deep down that Jassim's bid almost certainly a state bid. So they know the motivations behind it and where the money is coming from.
I cant find the article but I promise I will search for it mate. Basically it said that the Qataris are eyeing up the surrounding areas of OT as a great source of investment. Its fair to say they will make bank from the surrounding area in terms of property etc especially with the Quays nearby. As such, its fair to say SJ will also reinvest in OT
"It was me all along, Austin."
- Joel Glazer
- Joel Glazer
If you ask most United fans why they preferJassim's bid is not due to anything but what they perceive is best for the club going forward. You can still support the club and not be condoning what happens in Qatar.
I think you’re seeing what you want to see here mate.
Loads of pro Jassim bid fans view it as a state bid. Seriously.
And obviously pro Jassim posters aren’t going to criticise his bid equally are they?
It’s like saying ‘everyone who’s voting remain says Brexit is a bad idea but none of them are equally critical of the other option’… well, no, obviously not.
The 92 Foundation bid is widely viewed as an open and shut case of Sportswashing before its even began. No evidence is needed, no insight is required.
Jim Ratcliffe is proposing to keep the fecking Glazers on, borrow more money to buy Utd, pledging nothing about the serious investment needed in OT - I mean, it’s a complicated and controversial bid, it’s going to be critiqued mate!
He’s been given a very easy time in the UK press regarding his bid though. Probably as he has most of them in his pocket already.
Ineos are involved in a lot of sport stuff, and I'm not aware of a single example of them trying to earn a profit from it. Of course buying United will be a much bigger scale, but it's a weird narrative nonetheless.
It occurs to me that SJ’s motivation to buy out the Glazers’ interests is in part due to the property development possibilities that claims have been made will follow his acquisition. Doling out contracts for a 2bn stadium and billions more on potential additional construction projects is how SJ and his financial backers (e.g., his dad, family members who run construction related businesses) will get a more immediate return on their investment in the club AND help their investment appreciate independent from the improvements in results on the pitch.
SJR's bid is a business case. The higher the price the more he has to squeeze the asset to get the finances. The natural end point of that is Glazers 2.0 but it's a long journey.
In the end unless the Qataris decide they're not going to have their pockets picked by the Glazers i don't see how this can end without them owning the club. They're just way richer. They already blew $220 billion on hosting the World Cup for no other reason than to show off. This is nothing.
But City is the apex club in that system and is the current Champions League winner, seems to be working well and as designed…Nice is the current apex of SJR’s network and has indisputably underperformed.
It is absolutely possible that if SJR buys the club he will focus on its success ahead of all of his other business interests; apply himself and his abundant resources in a way he has never done for his other clubs and excel as United’s owner. But thus far he hasn’t. SJR does not suffer from the lack of a track record..he has one, it’s just really poor and it has to be considered with regard to the appeal of his prospective ownership.
The "evidence" of Jassim and his love for United is probably due to fact he will clear all debt, improve Old Trafford etc .. If he truly is a Utd fan and wants to see us be the best again and do anything he can to get us back to the top them im all for it.
I would rather that than have Sir Jim keep us where we are now which is no where near good enough to challenge for major honours.
I think it's fair to say each supporting group of fans think the party they're hoping to buy United, is under more scrutiny than the other when in fairness the 2 sides have been as dissected as each other.
Hopefully very soon, things will calm down
Hopefully very soon, things will calm down
On the subject of the Qatari's, there are two questions that I am currently considering-;
1) What is the link between SJ and the Qatari rulers? Are we 100% sure that there is one?
2) On the subject of morality and ethics, what, if anything, can the United fanbase do to hold the Qatari's to account, if they are successful? Reading in the news today about the Saudi's and their condemnation of seven protesters made me think - we can't stop the Qatari's taking over, and of course we're divided on whether we would even want to stop them, but we CAN hold them to account.
Unlike fans of other state-owned clubs, who seem to brush-off, deny or ignore the atrocities their owners commit, perhaps we could do whatever we can to highlight injustices and thereby shine the spotlight on the owners?
Think about it...United are not City or Newcastle...with respect, two teams with (previously) largely domestic fanbases and sponsors. We are a global brand, supported by hundreds of millions worldwide. Imagine the heat we could put on the Qatari's to force positive change.
If the LUHG campaign is anything to go by, United fans can mobilise on social media and with boots on the ground. IF Qatar buy the club, we have a huge opportunity to force positive change through highlighting issues like those we have seen today with the Saudi's.
Of course, the caveat to that is we should make sure we're highlighting human rights issues and not just "things that are different about the Middle East and their culture".
Worth thinking about. If they want 'exposure', let's give it to them. Is there ever a chance they could be getting more than they bargained for with United?
1) What is the link between SJ and the Qatari rulers? Are we 100% sure that there is one?
2) On the subject of morality and ethics, what, if anything, can the United fanbase do to hold the Qatari's to account, if they are successful? Reading in the news today about the Saudi's and their condemnation of seven protesters made me think - we can't stop the Qatari's taking over, and of course we're divided on whether we would even want to stop them, but we CAN hold them to account.
Unlike fans of other state-owned clubs, who seem to brush-off, deny or ignore the atrocities their owners commit, perhaps we could do whatever we can to highlight injustices and thereby shine the spotlight on the owners?
Think about it...United are not City or Newcastle...with respect, two teams with (previously) largely domestic fanbases and sponsors. We are a global brand, supported by hundreds of millions worldwide. Imagine the heat we could put on the Qatari's to force positive change.
If the LUHG campaign is anything to go by, United fans can mobilise on social media and with boots on the ground. IF Qatar buy the club, we have a huge opportunity to force positive change through highlighting issues like those we have seen today with the Saudi's.
Of course, the caveat to that is we should make sure we're highlighting human rights issues and not just "things that are different about the Middle East and their culture".
Worth thinking about. If they want 'exposure', let's give it to them. Is there ever a chance they could be getting more than they bargained for with United?
Think you're seeing what you want to see here. As an observer - not a participant in here - you're a poster I see pop up frequently with anti-SJ-ownership posts. So, naturally you're going to see things the way you want.
As an observer, I'll tell you this: This thread is generally a fecking mess with very little insightful substance. It's basically two 'sides' bickering in an endless loop. The discourse in here has Jose/Ole vibes with people becoming ingrained in a certain stance, and not listening to what the other 'side' has to say.
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There was plenty of criticism of Qatar bid until the reuters stuff broke. Amateur hour, these clowns can't even outbid Ratcliffe, Jim has masterfully outplayed them by allowing the Glazers to stay on, jassim is AI generated, there's been fecking loads of negative spin
The links between ABu Dhabi United Group and the Abu Dhabi state weren't conclusively proved until 2022, but almost every single person on earth (including you) knew it way before then. What convinced you?
That's basically it. One side has been consistently telling everyone that they are paragons of virtue and Qatar is a uncivilized and medieval place while the other side says that they only care about United getting everything it wants or "deserve" and Ratcliffe is a brexiteer loser.
It would be a lie to claim that either side haven't been criticized.
Can you literally find any evidence of this? In the last ten pages for example? 20?
That took me literally one minute
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