Club Sale | It’s done!

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Ian Reus said:
Any updates today?

What's happening with brexit?

Or the Mid East countries?

Or is still only favourite desserts and endless poetry?
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No updates today. If we're honest, no real updates since last week. Shares are trading higher than they have generally been over the last month, but lower than at other points in 2023. In general, we're in the same holding pattern we've been in for months, eagerly hoping for some news that signals the end of Glazer control.
 
stevoc said:
The the idea that integrating other countries into western society will somehow spark change within them hasn't really panned out with Russia or China to be fair. If anything the opposite has been true, the West turned a blind eye to Russian aggression for years to keep the Gas flowing and Western entertainment among other industries have been bending over backwards and bowing to China's demands to get access to their market.

And if the World Cup was any sort of indicator then Qatar doesn't seem interested or ready to progress as you put it.
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There has been some social progression in Qatar over recent years, the best example being their abolishment of the migrant kafala system. You could also read this report from PwC for further examples:
Qatar’s ESG Journey: Past, present, and future through a legal lens (pwc.com)

In any case, I think there's two different aspects to consider when talking about this matter of cultural transfusion - political and social.

Where I think even the likes of Amnesty International get it wrong whilst assessing this matter is they very quickly make a judgement on whether there has been transfusion between two countries after only a decade or so of increased integration, where such transfusion would only ever have had time to take place at the less permeable political level.

To use your example of Russia, it is true the Russian government has not bent one little bit towards adopting a more "Western" philosophy in parallel to closer integration with the West over recent decades. Nor should we have ever have really expected it to, given those currently governing in Russia are of an age born and indoctrinated within the fiercely anti-Western USSR. However, the change we haven't yet seen the fruits of is at the social level - the blossoming segment of more liberal-minded young people in Russia today, influenced by the romanticism of Western culture in media, the international friends they've made, the foreign job opportunities they've been afforded. These people may not yet have grown up into positions that can affect matters at the political level, but as Russia's current nationalist majority continues to age and this younger generation grows in its power and influence, such changes may well begin to manifest at the political level.

In the specific case of Middle Eastern countries buying into football, I would argue that it's the younger, more malleable generations in those countries that will be most affected by the increased interest in our culture. Maybe they won't yet be a position to influence things at the political level in their countries. But one day they most likely will be.
 
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i doubt that LBO rule means 100%, LBOs are usually around ~75% or so...

you have to start acquiring some shares before you can get a loan to acquire the rest
 
Crackers said:
There's been a few times where this has happened for me, where I've grown disinterested in United (and my emotional state from the constant losses), but I always come back. It's just too strong a connection.
What bothers me most is that by being bought by a sugar daddy (INEOS or Qatar) is that we've lost the battle with City. Mockney said it perfectly, a lot of us have emotional connections with the club and both options feel like the club will be irrevocably changed after this.
It may not be the same for others, but a lot of us love United for that romance element - the history of United is bittersweet and this feels like a gutpunch, we've had to sellout to keep up with City. I feel bitter because it feels like the club is losing a part of its soul, purely to stay relevant. And it doubly hurts as we've had nearly a decade of mismanagement and incompetence, which makes me bitter that City despite all the financial doping are a much better run club
I feel bitter when I think about that, and when Christy Dignam died yesterday I kind of paired that in my mind (I have a habit of pairing music to particular events in my mind, to an almost frustrating degree).

I may grow disinterested in United if we become a trophy factory like City, but like Sultan said it's ingrained in us. United till I die really.
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I really don't get this "romance" element people go on about. We've had bad owners for years and years.

What was "romantic" under the Glazers? When we were listed?

Any "romance" surely comes from on the pitch, despite who the owners are.
 
Yeah none of this impacts Jim's proposals.

The misinformation being constantly bandied about regarding the Ineos offer and financing is quite frustrating to see.
 
This ban has nothing to do with Ratcliffe's bid. An LBO is where the debt is put on the company.

Ratcliffe, like Boehly, will put the debt on himself personally or more likely on INEOS.

The way the PL have dragged their feet on this, I half expect them to ban state and state-associated ownership next, just to make sure United can stay in the gutter. It's all round pathetic neglect of the biggest club in the PL history (so far...).

Walter Sobchak said:
Yeah none of this impacts Jim's proposals.
The misinformation being constantly bandied about regarding the Ineos offer and financing is quite frustrating to see.
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Indeed, people attributing debt repayment and some otherworldly business sense to INEOS because that aligns with their wishes is definitely frustrating.

Btw, care to post a link to what this supposed Ratcliffe 'proposal' is, seeing as they've only said no new debt on the club will be placed and that's been about it? Just to put our minds at ease that Ratcliffe is not trying to do an undercover Glazer (as he clealry is).
 
Rightnr said:
Btw, care to post a link to what this supposed Ratcliffe 'proposal' is, seeing as they've only said no new debt on the club will be placed and that's been about it? Just to put our minds at ease that Ratcliffe is not trying to do an undercover Glazer (as he clealry is).
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Exactly, that's been about it. Absolutely everything else is guesswork.

My point was mainly about the narrative that Ineos using debt-financing for the takeover somehow means they will be pinching pennies for their entire ownership if successful, as 'they cannot afford to buy the club outright with equity'. I find that frustrating is all.
 
Big Ben Foster said:
There's definitely more to it than just the fake tweet, like you said. Along with all the stock movement, I refuse to believe all the well-connected people in Qatar who came out with congratulatory tweets the other night were duped by some random Twitter account. More likely they just jumped the gun and then later had to do some damage control until a formal announcement could be made.
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That's what I keep telling myself but still doesn't feel like Jassim has pulled away
 
Does anyone in here actually believe we are gonna get some concrete news on Friday
 
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united_99 said:
You are probably not friends with them because they work in oil related companies. And you don’t define them due to their current work. They may had other work, education, studies in the past and may have others in the future. Some may also not have another choice and need the money, etc.

Regarding your other post, well for most managers and players managing or playing for a club is just a job, they will have worked for other clubs in the past and will do in the future as well.

Whereas as a United fan you can’t just say oh crap, I will follow a non-state or non ME club now.

I wonder how many days of your life and how much emotion you invest with a Nike shirt or whatever endless examples people keep coming up with.
And then compare it to the time and energy invested into United (this forum, watching games, transfers, etc.)
Basically almost every day a United fan does something United related, even if it is just checking this forum, a result or a news outlet.
But I don’t have the same attachment to my Nike shirt made in wherever.

If for some fans it’s all good then so be it.

But this constant whataboutism and bringing up endless examples as if everything was comparable is ridiculous.

For a lot of fans things will just not be the same again. Some will not mind it much, others may get used to this new reality, others again may lose some interest and others may walk away completely. That’s down to each of them and they are all allowed to post their concerns here.
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I don't get your reasoning. Shouldn't be you start on things that you have more control and less attachment with, to stick with your principle?

Your reasoning for manager and players is also hard to get. Because it's just a job for them, the ones that getting paid and directly contribute, so they're exempt?

Edit: I do agree that we're all should be allowed to post concerns here. I do like to know people's thought on things. Some can actually sway my POV.
 
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Superden said:
So we've gone from kane or mbappe yday to kane is now officially too expensive and we're linked with a free transfer for one of a relegated teams worst players. This takeover saga with the glazers sticking around like a very bad fart smell is muppet kryptonite.
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Who is that free transfer as missed it
 
Nori- said:
Anyone else feel like their life is on a semi-stand still until this sale is sorted.

It's only felt like this the last few weeks but its constantly on the back of my mind.

Anxiously opening twitter 30 times a day or quickly grabbing my phone when a breaking news notification comes through.

Will be glad when this is done.
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Yeah it will be nice to focus purely on transfers which you can't do with this farce
 
I don't like this Qatar bid one bit but out of these two I am not sure I could watch us sink deeper under Brexit Jim. So Qatar it is.
 
Big Ben Foster said:
There's definitely more to it than just the fake tweet, like you said. Along with all the stock movement, I refuse to believe all the well-connected people in Qatar who came out with congratulatory tweets the other night were duped by some random Twitter account. More likely they just jumped the gun and then later had to do some damage control until a formal announcement could be made.
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Mate not even just that, but the fact it didn't immediately just plummet back down to where it was pre-tweet. Ofcourse it would have dropped slightly, its price action and what happens when profits are taken ie. Selling...

I think due to the nature of the NDA, it was better for the Qataris to refute it. Imagine down the line an investigation was taken place for insider trading - since we are on the stock exchange. Better to be seen as donuts from folk on here than get done for that for instance
 
Crackers said:
There's been a few times where this has happened for me, where I've grown disinterested in United (and my emotional state from the constant losses), but I always come back. It's just too strong a connection.
What bothers me most is that by being bought by a sugar daddy (INEOS or Qatar) is that we've lost the battle with City. Mockney said it perfectly, a lot of us have emotional connections with the club and both options feel like the club will be irrevocably changed after this.
It may not be the same for others, but a lot of us love United for that romance element - the history of United is bittersweet and this feels like a gutpunch, we've had to sellout to keep up with City. I feel bitter because it feels like the club is losing a part of its soul, purely to stay relevant. And it doubly hurts as we've had nearly a decade of mismanagement and incompetence, which makes me bitter that City despite all the financial doping are a much better run club
I feel bitter when I think about that, and when Christy Dignam died yesterday I kind of paired that in my mind (I have a habit of pairing music to particular events in my mind, to an almost frustrating degree).

I may grow disinterested in United if we become a trophy factory like City, but like Sultan said it's ingrained in us. United till I die really.
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I see where you are coming from but that “romance” arguably died the day the Glazers bought us already, not now.
 
croadyman said:
Can someone explain what 2.5m traded means,also where do you get this info from
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It's how many shares in Man Utd (Manchester Utd PLC) were traded today on the New York Stock Exchange. So people bought and sold 2.5m shares. Daily volume is available on any share tracking platform. So if you go to Google Finance and search for Man Utd you can see the share price and volume. It says the average volume is 1.8m shares traded per day so 2.5m would be 50% or so more than normal indicating more interest than usual.
 
croadyman said:
That's what I keep telling myself but still doesn't feel like Jassim has pulled away
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1. SJR will invest all the bonds and loans into Nice now A recent media report
2. SJR will have to pass a new Directors and owners test with EPL explaining that this is not a leveraged deal.
3. Looking at how he’s struggling to actually acquire 51% or 60% of the money to buy Glazers Shares.
4. Major companies and hedge funds are seriously looking at challenging his takeover due to share price fall and their concerns on losing millions of dollars in potential SJ buyout
5. The shares have risen sharply in 3 days and even though there was a bogus tweet saying Qatar had won, those shares have still stayed strong at $23
6. SJR due to potential challenges on the NYSE would like to move the company to the London Stock exchange (Guess who owns most of that, small clue it begins with Q?)
7. If you were Glazers now, looking at the way Nice has been run, would you really want 20% of the money you could have now tied up in a business you no longer control or have any actual decision making ability, if the loan and debt to buy Man United means that SJR has to insure the £3bn, plus £535m on INEOS, just a quickie if INEOS was to be in any financial trouble in the next 3/4 years and actually Go bankrupt, any debt owed by Manchester United to INEOS could be demanded by HMRC and the banks, or they could use the club as collateral in the same way they could use Nice.
8. There is a increasingly strong rumour across that SJ last bid was more like £5.4bn with £200m on top of £5.2bn to agree within 2 weeks, we’ll find out whether that’s true very soon.
9. The two club Problem with Nice will be a huge issue with UEFA because PSG chairmen will want to help his mate SJ

SJR has a chance yes but he’s definitely right now the outsider and I’d say it definitively 70/30 in SJ favour so yes he has started to pull away.

CASH IS KING and SJ has better access ,more Cash available to him and he can pay this cash in a much quicker timeframe.
 
arthurka said:
I don't like this Qatar bid one bit but out of these two I am not sure I could watch us sink deeper under Brexit Jim. So Qatar it is.
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Yeah, I’m coming around to this way of thinking too. A little grudgingly, but there it is.
 
Chief123 said:
I’m not exactly sure on the legalities of the last point but I’m not sure if they would actually be breaking any laws. Maybe someone with a legal background can clarify but I don’t see it the same as stock manipulation.

I guess it could be illegal on the basis it would be trading based on non-public available information. So you’re probably right.
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I hit my post limit for the day or I would have replied sooner. For either INEOS or the Qataris to trade (or tip others) on the Man Utd stock would absolutely be a violation of their NDAs which would have to include a standstill clause, as well as illegal because they are most definitely in possession of material non-public information.
 
Nicolarra90 said:
Keyword: act
In the end is mostly rivalries and banter.
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Those rivalries can have quite an edge to them though. If you go down your local football pub and start talking about how their biggest rival's fans are no better or worse than they are I don't think you'll get that many nodding in agreement.
 
croadyman said:
Share price has only steadily rose over last couple of days,presume if it was imminent then would have rocketed to around $28
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Throughout this process, my observation is that the share price simply follows the media reports. It has been driven by speculation based on what the journalists and social media perceive to be the likelier outcome at that time. We have little concrete evidence of what has truly been transpiring or what the Glazer siblings intend to do.

Traders read drivel in the press touting INEOS as the favourite, or anything suggesting uncertainty regarding the timeline/outcome of full sale: stock price falls. Traders read drivel in the press (or on social media) suggesting the Qataris are going to win: stock price rises.

You are correct that the price would be higher if we got reliable news that a deal with the Qataris was imminent, but we have not received such news. It is important to note that it does not necessarily mean a deal is or is not imminent. We just have no way of truly knowing, and we have not gotten any credible reports on the subject.

My two cents and not to be taken as gospel: I have seen nothing in the trading activity to suggest traders have any kind of "inside information." Don't try reading into the stock price too much. It's bad for our collective health. :lol:
 
FrankWhite said:
Is it? I disagree with the OP. He's basically saying any fan who don't go to games are fair weather, glory hunting fans. This idea in itself is disrespectful to the club.
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He did offer a bit of nuance by suggesting he knows fans all corners of the world who appreciate the relationship locals have with the club.
 
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TMDaines said:
Good thread:

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Hmmm - not sure I agree that it's a good thread. Seems to be a very self righteous and condescending take on what it takes to be a United fan.

He is denigrating united fans who aren't local and using the rationale that since he knows international fans that agree with his thinking, his opinion is validated and correct.

Also - he is contradicting his own point by doing exactly this - "Telling other Utd fans what to think".
I don't think pointing to a shit tweet from one random troll on Twitter is a good reason to imply international United fans don't understand what it means to support the club
 
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