Club Sale | It’s done!

[Shakesy]

This is a load of rubbish. There is nothing in life that is a necessary that can’t be done ethically and morally.

Fact is, people pick and choose when they want to live ethically/morally.

People need to stop lying to themselves and own it.

You don’t need to work for certain employers with ethical issues.

You don’t need to use a smart phone.

You can choose to drive an electric car.


Etc, etc, etc….

I thought this was a poem. So did GPT

This tale, a rubbish heap, is clear, Ethics and morals, we hold dear.

Yet truth be told, we often bend, Picking where these rules, we extend.

Stop lying to oneself, take the hit, Embrace reality, own every bit.

Jobs with ethics astray, you dread? You don't need those to earn your bread.

Think a smartphone's a must, you do? Life's simpler tones, you can pursue.

Drive an electric car, make that choice, Let your morals have a voice.

 

[tenpoless]

Mount money

 

[Red00012]

Unfortunately the promise means feck all to the glazers they don’t care what they do with the debt.

 

[sullydnl]

We are not was you say " Sick of Morality" what we are sick off is the rinse and repeat of 1684 pages of it as some attempt at indoctrination. What equally laughable is the constant attempts to evaluate each other opinions. Brexit chemical Jim v Gas anti LGBT etc Jassim. By now, the points have been well made and sure members are by now well informed.

Some posters have literally said they're sick of morals/morality or don't care about these issues in football at all. So don't assume your position is everyone's, or needlessly place yourself in the position of the people I'm criticising.

And I agree that this thread goes round and round in circles. If you don't like it I'd advise avoiding it as much as possible. Otherwise you get drawn into these stupid arguments, as I already regret having been today.

 

[Shakesy]

I have decided that this Friday would be the "Big day". Don't ask me why, I don't even know myself.

Once I believed in Big Days. Then they let me down. Now I spit in the face of Big Days.

 

[Devil You Know]

The the idea that integrating other countries into western society will somehow spark change within them hasn't really panned out with Russia or China to be fair. If anything the opposite has been true, the West turned a blind eye to Russian aggression for years to keep the Gas flowing and Western entertainment among other industries have been bending over backwards and bowing to China's demands to get access to their market.

And if the World Cup was any sort of indicator then Qatar doesn't seem interested or ready to progress as you put it.

But it has been working out for Dubai. And it was on the cusp of working out for Turkey until the EU rejected them.

It's arguably already working out in Qatar, with numerous reforms put in place since the World Cup.

Qataris are trying to diversify their income streams. That includes through tourism. Contact with different kinds of people is exactly what liberalised much of the west. It's the same path Qatar wants to be on, and the lack of it is quite possibly why Russia/China didn't.

 

[Ted Lasso]

Do one - I'm not telling any other Utd fan how they should feel or act if a Qatari (or any other state) bid is successful, and I don't need some random telling me how I'm going to act. I've got no interest in being a geopolitical plaything for a state, and I'll be damned if they're going to get an ounce of my love for a club that I've supported for 35 years

I'm not telling you how to feel or act either. I'm just commenting that right now it's hard to take any of the hyperbole outrage seriously. You're all just talk.

I didn't mean to single you out personally. It's a sentiment around that type commentary I've held since even the world cup was announced in Qatar. I'm not sure I was even on the forum then, but moot point.

 

[11101]

This is a load of rubbish. There is nothing in life that is a necessary that can’t be done ethically and morally.

Fact is, people pick and choose when they want to live ethically/morally.

People need to stop lying to themselves and own it.

You don’t need to work for certain employers with ethical issues.

You don’t need to use a smart phone.

You can choose to drive an electric car.


Etc, etc, etc….

This is a stupid argument.

I need a phone.

I need a car.

I need clothes.

I don't have an option to buy ethically with these things.

I don't need to support a football club, and I do have a choice on who I want to own them.

 

[Rightnr]

Unfortunately the promise means feck all to the glazers they don’t care what they do with the debt.

True but for all the people that say 'debt is normal' that try to downplay retaining the debt as standard, this puts it in practical terms.

It's basically a Gakpo/Mount a year. 3 years of that and you get 1/3 of your squad refreshed.

 

[Sparky Rhiwabon]

This is a stupid argument.

I need a phone.

I need a car.

I need clothes.

I don't have an option to buy ethically with these things.

I don't need to support a football club, and I do have a choice on who I want to own them.

Tbh phones are more a convenience (a pretty big one tbf) rather than a necessity. People survived pre mobile phones.

 

[Reapersoul20]

Well let's look on the bright side.

When all these patronising whingers that don't want Qatar for their owners feck off and stop supporting United, at least this website will speed up a bit.

Every cloud....

So everyone that doesn't want Qatar is a patronising whinger. Very interesting.

I heard Jassim is going to fund a rake of load balancers for @Niall to make the site run more smoothly than ever too

 

[sparx99]

This is a stupid argument.

I need a phone.

I need a car.

I need clothes.

I don't have an option to buy ethically with these things.

I don't need to support a football club, and I do have a choice on who I want to own them.

Some people certainly feel that they do need their football club. It’s an escape for 5-6hrs a week from an oppressive capitalistic society. Time when you can just enjoy football. Some people watch movies, some read books and some watch their football team.

Credit to people who spend their lives fighting for change but for many people work/life is exhausting and football is what they have to give themselves a break.

 

[Reditus]

Tbh phones are more a convenience (a pretty big one tbf) rather than a necessity. People survived pre mobile phones.

Most people can't do their jobs without phones in fairness

 

[Keyser]

This is a stupid argument.

I need a phone.

I need a car.

I need clothes.

I don't have an option to buy ethically with these things.

I don't need to support a football club, and I do have a choice on who I want to own them.

There is an ethical phone

You don't NEED a car it's a convenience

Ethical clothes are easy to find as well

You just CBA is the truth

 

[Wibble]

Tbh phones are more a convenience (a pretty big one tbf) rather than a necessity. People survived pre mobile phones.

People survived before modern medicine.

INEOS is a petrochemical company but saying that you can't object to them being owners of United because you use gas to heat your home is a ludicrous argument.

 

[Reapersoul20]

Oh Jesus, we are back on the "but you use oil REEE" justification. Scotty fecking beam me up and stop at the shoulders

 

[RopersReturn]

Mount money

Then we can finally mount a bid for Mount.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

There is an ethical phone

You don't NEED a car it's a convenience

Ethical clothes are easy to find as well

You just CBA is the truth

It's still a stupid argument. Nobody chooses to "support" a brand of phone, or car (choosing to ignore the apple vs android bollox). When you support a football team you are aligning your own sense of identity with that club. So it feels far more personal if/when that club becomes owned by a state known for human rights abuses.

 

[Broski-MUFC]

I have decided that this Friday would be the "Big day". Don't ask me why, I don't even know myself.

Why?

 

[glazed]

Jeez this is like watching a TV episode where you guessed the ending in the first five minutes (Qatar wins) and the director is desperately trying to inject jeapordy into it to keep you watching through the commercial breaks. Just fekkin get on with it you ginger parasite knutbags then fek off back to your slimehole forever.

 

[Sparky Rhiwabon]

Most people can't do their jobs without phones in fairness

Yes, some can’t. Although that should then be a work phone, and they will still own their own phone as well

Although, tbh, I hardly ever use my work phone, I might as well give it up. If I need to talk to someone, we do it via Google Hangouts / Meet on the laptop

 

[seegoblu]

The more I read this thread, the more I dislike this fan base, mods included.

 

[Keyser]

It's still a stupid argument. Nobody chooses to "support" a brand of phone, or car (choosing to ignore the apple vs android bollox). When you support a football team you are aligning your own sense of identity with that club. So it feels far more personal if/when that club becomes owned by a state known for human rights abuses.

But you can choose to live in a certain way or not, picking and choosing and then choosing bits you don't like to argue is a bit silly

It's like me saying I'm a vegetarian as I'm against animals being killed but I eat chicken cos I love KFC, it's nonsensical

I'm all for people being genuinely ethical but most arent

 

[Sparky Rhiwabon]

People survived before modern medicine.

INEOS is a petrochemical company but saying that you can't object to them being owners of United because you use gas to heat your home is a ludicrous argument.

We’re probably getting way off topic but I’d say medicine and heat are more essentials. Phones are convenience / entertainment

People survived far less before modern medicine

 

[El-Manos]

It's still a stupid argument. Nobody chooses to "support" a brand of phone, or car (choosing to ignore the apple vs android bollox). When you support a football team you are aligning your own sense of identity with that club. So it feels far more personal if/when that club becomes owned by a state known for human rights abuses.

Or... you could support the club & team but not support the owners. We have no say in who owns the club, we can't influence the glazer's decision.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

But you can choose to live in a certain way or not, picking and choosing and then choosing bits you don't like to argue is a bit silly

It's like me saying I'm a vegetarian as I'm against animals being killed but I eat chicken cos I love KFC, it's nonsensical

I'm all for people being genuinely ethical but most arent

You have no idea about the sort of lives lived by those who object to Qatari ownership.

 

[cyberman]

Some people certainly feel that they do need their football club. It’s an escape for 5-6hrs a week from an oppressive capitalistic society. Time when you can just enjoy football. Some people watch movies, some read books and some watch their football team.

Credit to people who spend their lives fighting for change but for many people work/life is exhausting and football is what they have to give themselves a break.

I’d add if you need the owners beliefs to align with your own then you’ll never support an English club in the first place.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Or... you could support the club & team but not support the owners. We have no say in who owns the club, we can't influence the glazer's decision.

Well, no. But we can have an opinion about them. Which is something that, bizarrely, is being shouted down in this thread with the "you can't have an opinion if you own a car" nonsense.

 

[stevoc]

But it has been working out for Dubai. And it was on the cusp of working out for Turkey until the EU rejected them.

It's arguably already working out in Qatar, with numerous reforms put in place since the World Cup.

Qataris are trying to diversify their income streams. That includes through tourism. Contact with different kinds of people is exactly what liberalised much of the west. It's the same path Qatar wants to be on, and the lack of it is quite possibly why Russia/China didn't.

To an extent that is true fair enough. But over the last 30-40 years there's more evidence of it not working than working. And I'll reserve judgement on reforms in Qatar as a result of the World Cup.

 

[Chief123]

This is a stupid argument.

I need a phone.

I need a car.

I need clothes.

I don't have an option to buy ethically with these things.

I don't need to support a football club, and I do have a choice on who I want to own them.

This is such a poor argument. It’s the opposite angle.

 

[Giggsy13]

Everyday I come to this thread and leave feeling dumber and less informed. The state of this, worst thread in history by a mile.

 

[stevoc]

There is an ethical phone

You don't NEED a car it's a convenience

Ethical clothes are easy to find as well

You just CBA is the truth

Which one?

Some people do need a vehicle to work it's not just a convneience for them.

 

[Bosws87]

I actually feel that is perfectly reasonable. Thought something along those line myself. Unfollow United on every social media, don't pay for any merch or subscriptions etc.

But with a competent owner that isn’t pillaging the clubs money, then buying merch would directly supporting the team/facilities not dividends.

I understand the thought process, you could just say you love United but do not condone or agree with the Qatari elite back home.

It’s totally acceptable to love something but hate or not like parts that make up the whole picture. I know we live in a society where everything is cut down the middle (black/white) but that’s the issue itself, you don’t have to always get it right, or always be perceived to be on the right side. You can enjoy stuff but also be critical.

A lost art I know, I blame the internet!

 

[united_99]

Lots of my friends works there in oil related companies, and makes monies from Saudi and Qatar government owned company contracts. Kinda weird that I've never considered my friends as "amoral" though. Probably I just don't think that deeper.

You are probably not friends with them because they work in oil related companies. And you don’t define them due to their current work. They may had other work, education, studies in the past and may have others in the future. Some may also not have another choice and need the money, etc.

Regarding your other post, well for most managers and players managing or playing for a club is just a job, they will have worked for other clubs in the past and will do in the future as well.

Whereas as a United fan you can’t just say oh crap, I will follow a non-state or non ME club now.

I wonder how many days of your life and how much emotion you invest with a Nike shirt or whatever endless examples people keep coming up with.
And then compare it to the time and energy invested into United (this forum, watching games, transfers, etc.)
Basically almost every day a United fan does something United related, even if it is just checking this forum, a result or a news outlet.
But I don’t have the same attachment to my Nike shirt made in wherever.

If for some fans it’s all good then so be it.

But this constant whataboutism and bringing up endless examples as if everything was comparable is ridiculous.

For a lot of fans things will just not be the same again. Some will not mind it much, others may get used to this new reality, others again may lose some interest and others may walk away completely. That’s down to each of them and they are all allowed to post their concerns here.

 

[MDFC Manager]

To an extent that is true fair enough. But over the last 30-40 years there's more evidence of it not working than working. And I'll reserve judgement on reforms in Qatar as a result of the World Cup.

Source? The gulf states are vastly different place today than they were 30 years ago, and that is indeed due to increasing global influence there. We scoff and snigger at things like saudi women now being allowed to drive but I'm sure they think it's a step in the right direction.

On the other hand, how much success have they had in imposing their idealogies on to the western world?

 

[Negative Red]

Pages and pages of drivel and the same people making the same, tired arguments to support their view.

This takeover is more tedious than watching cricket.

Agreed, this thread has been horrible at times but there's no need for this kind of overreaction!

 

[sullydnl]

There is an ethical phone

You don't NEED a car it's a convenience

Ethical clothes are easy to find as well

You just CBA is the truth

For many jobs you do literally need to use car or some other vehicle. As in it's an implicit or often explicit requirement for the role.

Or do you think, for example, all ambulance drivers should either quit or not hold any moral positions on anything? Refuse to go on a call unless they're assured the fuel in the ambulance comes from an ethical source?

You're arguing from the POV of a fantasy land where the practicalities and realities people are actually required to live with in the real world don't exist.

And, as with others making the same argument, I have to believe you're either being disinegnuous or (being very kind) haven't actually thought through what the sentences you're writing suggest. Because it's difficult to believe anyone is stupid enough to go along with the argument you're making on face value.

 

[Red in STL]

Sir, as of yet nobody has provided evidence of a state bid, not one shred, nothing and you think stating there is no evidence of a state bid is fooling myself? Again you're jumping to conclusions about what I want and think.

As of yet, I haven't excluded the HBJ branch, with investors, not state, of the Al Thani house buying united as a Qatar power move within the Al Thani house.

I'm sorry but I think you're a bit naive if you don't think this is anything other than a state backed bid, in countries like Qatar, Saudi, Abu Dhabi it is pretty much impossible to do this kind of business without state being involved

 

[El Zoido]

Unfortunately the promise means feck all to the glazers they don’t care what they do with the debt.

Of course they do, don’t you know they love the club.

 

[Member 109952]

Only a couple of years ago City won the league without a striker. And they generally play 3 midfielders (recently Rodri, Gundogan and KDB). Plus Bernardo is a wide attacker, but has been used as a CM at times. They don't have amazing depth in midfield but Pep has them organised and uses strengths of players to cover other positions. Just like he somehow brought Cancelo and Zincheko from nowhere and used them as inverted fullbacks.

Of course their success is mostly down to Pep.

Oh of course they had the financial power to do it - but Liverpool also built an excellent squad themselves. Ignore net spend at that point, just looking at the squads after the fact. The reason for City's dominance to this extent is because of Pep. Put another manager there and they won't dominate anywhere close to this level, year on year.

Of course it's down to Pep, but if Liverpool had the extra £500m or so net City have spent then they could've bought the same level of rotation for the attack City have, and one of those two 1 point deficits in the league could very likely have been overturned.

That's the only point I'm making - Klopp did almost as well with a far lower budget - do we honestly think Klopp with the same budget would not do as well if not better?

That's the benefit of being able to sign the likes of Kalvin Phillips for £50m and forgetting he's there. Signing Grealish for £100m. What you need, you get at City because they have unlimited money. Not the case at well run non oil clubs like Liverpool.