Club Sale | It’s done!

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So….will we hear anything significant today then? Or will “I got you babe” be playing on the clock radio again tomorrow morning?
 
I do not see the Glazers going with Ratcliffe and his investment when there is a world record bid on the table from Qatar, logic says take all the money now without any risk whatsoever.
 
MDFC Manager said:
INEOS will take on the new debt (incurred to buy the controlling stake). They aren't clearing the existing debt, that will still be on the books of the club.
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Not necessarily true, INEOS becomes the parent company and Man United PLC becomes a division of the holding/Parent company.

INEOS then pay off £535m loan with inter company loan, this meaning that Man United essential is debt free but would owe the Parent Company £535m and probably would have a payment plan attached to pay back the debt. The debt is due to be discussed or paid back to the banks by 2024. Now the question is will INEOS pay the debt from cash reserve or more likely take out a loan to service it, I’d say the second option.

Man United theoretically would now not suffer under FFP or new FSP burdens where next year 24/25 season the club can only spend 80% of its turnover on Wages, financials, agents fees, interest payments. For a start there would be no £30-40m interest payment to service the debt and give the Club a better chance of making a profit rather than loses of £100-115m as shown in the last two years accounts.

I think some of the profit would be used to service the loan from INEOS. SJR is a hard faced ruthless businessman, he not doing anything for the love of the club, I do believe he’s a united fan at heart and I do believe he wants the best for the club, but he’s no Jack Walker who will think I’ve got £28bn of my own money, I’ll go invest £2/3bn in my beloved United, one he’s not that liquid and most of his cash is tied up in assets all over the world and two he’s not going use his own money, that’s not how he works.
 
cheekybackheel said:
I'm not slagging them off I'm merely pointing out the facts.

And look at your arguments....finished 2nd at Giro...Bernal had a crash...a great young rider in Pidcock...Yes and another way you could describe it is...

The didn't win the Giro.
They don't have a rival to Pogacar or Roglic.
Pidcock keeps finishing second to better riders...

Don't lecture me on Pro Cycling son, I've been following it for 50yrs. It's not a debate you would win.
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Haha, "son". I've been following it for more than 40 years so no thank you. If you follow it that close, you know its a sport with extreme fine margins. They had Froome, which was the best of his generation. Bernal could have been that guy, Pidcock might become that. He's a lot younger than the VDP and Van Aerts of this worls. They have the best young team in the world imo, not too bad for a badly managed team.

Find another way to slag off Ineos, this isn't working mate.
 
Sparky Rhiwabon said:
So….will we hear anything significant today then? Or will “I got you babe” be playing on the clock radio again tomorrow morning?
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Probably won't hear anything today. Qatar will release some PR piece next week saying that they are disengaging from the process after their latest offer was ignored ("we did our best but they never wanted to sell" etc)
 
This whole sorry process has been indicative of our slow, slumbering none directional transfer proceedings in the last 10 years.
Just Feck off already....honestly if they decide to stick around after all this I can see protests like never before at the start of next season.
 
IRONTUSK said:
This whole sorry process has been indicative of our slow, slumbering none directional transfer proceedings in the last 10 years.
Just Feck off already....honestly if they decide to stick around after all this I can see protests like never before at the start of next season.
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Indeed. Can't be a coincidence that it is the same dickheads ultimately making the decisions. The Glazers are just awful. At least minority investment looks like a no-go at this stage, which means that the Glazers will cease to be in control of the club at the end of this process, whoever wins.
 
Woziak said:
Not necessarily true, INEOS becomes the parent company and Man United PLC becomes a division of the holding/Parent company.

INEOS then pay off £535m loan with inter company loan, this meaning that Man United essential is debt free but would owe the Parent Company £535m and probably would have a payment plan attached to pay back the debt. The debt is due to be discussed or paid back to the banks by 2024. Now the question is will INEOS pay the debt from cash reserve or more likely take out a loan to service it, I’d say the second option.

Man United theoretically would now not suffer under FFP or new FSP burdens where next year 24/25 season the club can only spend 80% of its turnover on Wages, financials, agents fees, interest payments. For a start there would be no £30-40m interest payment to service the debt and give the Club a better chance of making a profit rather than loses of £100-115m as shown in the last two years accounts.

I think some of the profit would be used to service the loan from INEOS. SJR is a hard faced ruthless businessman, he not doing anything for the love of the club, I do believe he’s a united fan at heart and I do believe he wants the best for the club, but he’s no Jack Walker who will think I’ve got £28bn of my own money, I’ll go invest £2/3bn in my beloved United, one he’s not that liquid and most of his cash is tied up in assets all over the world and two he’s not going use his own money, that’s not how he works.
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If SJR does take over I hope your right in regarding existing debt but at the moment we really don't have a clue if he will do any of the 2 options you outlined. He could simply leave it where it is and have no intention of taking it off United's books.

The problem we have is we are all guessing what SJR or SJ are going to do.

Even statements about guaranteed investment, at this moment in time it's just words. When we get the process finished and the facts are displayed we'll know then and only then.

One thing's for certain, ETH and supporters are already suffering as we are seeing targets talking to other clubs and we are powerless to do anything and the longer this goes on the smaller the pool of players are available to us.
 
Steve Bruce said:
One thing's for certain, ETH and supporters are already suffering as we are seeing targets talking to other clubs and we are powerless to do anything and the longer this goes on the smaller the pool of players are available to us.
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Players will talk to other clubs because their agents will tell them to, and not only because the agent can haggle for more commission. If United are mossing out on players, the takeover will be a small reason.
 
Cantona in disguise said:
If INEOS (jim) came out and said we will clear the debt from day one. The Glazers are staying for three years then they will be gone. Would everyone take that? Would that be enough to get the anti INEOS crew on board or still not?

I know I'd take that in a heartbeat.
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Hell NO!!

I don’t trust Jim Ratcliffe for one second!

He has a history of lies, broken promises, dirty business deals and his company has a awful bad reputation when it comes to environmental issues. Not to mention his moving to Monaco to avoid taxes. This man is dangerous, there is no other way to describe him.

Only a legally binding contract where he promise below will do

-Clear ALL debts (including transfers, revolver credit and so on)
-Invest HEAVILY in both men’s and women’s team, give female players competitive salaries
-Invest in our infrastructure and Carrington
-Build a brand new state of the art stadium without new debts
-No dividends or consultant fee’s whatsoever to any owner or thereabouts
-A ownership where the Glazers has zero influence until they’re gone

Before I hear anything close to this I’m totally against anything connected to his businesses.

All my gut feeling says STAY AWAY!!
 
You know this thread has hit a wall when there's arguments over pro cycling taking place...

On another note, super duper big day today
 
Fully expecting the clumsy and hopelessly incompetent Glazer brothers to string both bidders along to the point where they get utterly fed up and walk away.
 
Appletonred said:
I do not see the Glazers going with Ratcliffe and his investment when there is a world record bid on the table from Qatar, logic says take all the money now without any risk whatsoever.
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I'm with you but the Glazers seem to have this weird affiliations to retain some ownership of United even when they don't look after their investment and they are hated as owners. They're also being left behind by many other clubs in Europe. It's a strange one. They could make far more money by leaving their sale proceeds in a bank account.
 
Cantona in disguise said:
If INEOS (jim) came out and said we will clear the debt from day one. The Glazers are staying for three years then they will be gone. Would everyone take that? Would that be enough to get the anti INEOS crew on board or still not?

I know I'd take that in a heartbeat.
Click to expand...
Hell NO!!

I don’t trust Jim Ratcliffe for one second.

He has a history of lies, broken promises, dirty business deals and his company has an awful reputation when it comes to environmental issues. Not to mention his moving to Monaco to avoid taxes. This man is dangerous, there is no other way to describe him.

Only a legally binding contract where he promise below will do

-Clear ALL debts (including transfers, revolver credit and so on)
-Invest HEAVILY in both men’s and women’s team, give female players competitive salaries
-Invest in our infrastructure and Carrington
-Build a brand new state of the art stadium (without debts)
-No dividends or consultant fee’s whatsoever to any owner or thereabouts
-A ownership where the Glazers has zero influence until they’re gone

Before I hear anything close to this I’m totally against anything connected to his businesses.

All my gut feeling screams STAY AWAY!!
 
I thought I couldn't hate the Glazer family more but I was so wrong.
 
Steve Bruce said:
If SJR does take over I hope your right in regarding existing debt but at the moment we really don't have a clue if he will do any of the 2 options you outlined. He could simply leave it where it is and have no intention of taking it off United's books.

The problem we have is we are all guessing what SJR or SJ are going to do.

Even statements about guaranteed investment, at this moment in time it's just words. When we get the process finished and the facts are displayed we'll know then and only then.

One thing's for certain, ETH and supporters are already suffering as we are seeing targets talking to other clubs and we are powerless to do anything and the longer this goes on the smaller the pool of players are available to us.
Click to expand...
Here’s the thing, The FSP new laws are so destructive within the next two transfer windows you have to pay off the debt in some way or you can’t buy any players. I’ll explain this year the rule is 90% of turnover the club without CL last year May have turned over £550m, they also lost at least £100m so we are £450m, then there is £35m to service the debt, That’s £415m left 90% means we can spend £495m on wages but due to our loss and debt, the club is reduced to £415m, if our wage bill was the same as the year before of £386m, the club would only have £29m to spend on transfer fees, agent fees and wages. This fee would allow you buy one £75m player on a 5 year contract with wages of £125k per week. The agent fees is an upfront payment now governed by FIFA at 10% so £7.5m is paid from the £29m to the Agent when the transfer is agreed. That means that £21.5m is left per year for 5 years amortised contract, £15m per year to be paid to the selling club £6.5m is put on the United accounts to pay his wages.

The good news this year, is that we don’t face wages of £384m due to Europa League clauses probably our wage bill is more like £334m so that’s probably why the club is thinking of 2/3 players with wages and agent fees, I’m guessing our budget is £150-200m however if we sell Henderson for £30m, S Mctominay for £30m, B Williams £5m and Ellanga for £10m all these players are sold for net profit so we would have an additional £75m added to £79m giving us a huge £164m for transfers, agent fees and wages. Say you take half of that number for transfers that’s £80m then multiplied by 5 for contract length giving you a £400m budget, £30m of agent fees. And then the remaining £50m over 5 years gives wages for probably 6/7 top players.


Without selling players like those mentioned we will at most have a £200m budget, Moving P Jones, A Tuanzebe, Maguire, Telles, E Bailey, DVB are all good because they free up wages, some of which have already been used on Dalot, Shaw and Garnaucho’s new contracts, De Gea reduction from £375k to £200k just means the club can now pay M Rashford £375k instead of £200k.


Huge summer this year and ideally now we’ve decided to loan out Greenwood we could do with someone like Juventus paying his wages of £75k per week and a price to sell at £50m if he does well, this is why T they’ve not released him, he could represent huge net profit next season but he’ll never play for united again.
 
Berbaclass said:


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It makes sense since Jim’s offer needs so much work from the Glazers side to be considered an offer. It sounds really complicated and needs the siblings to agree to most selling up and two staying or how much each Glazers dilutes their holding etc.
So much haggling will be needed for it to be acceptable and then they have to choose between the two
 
cyberman said:
It makes sense since Jim’s offer needs so much work from the Glazers side to be considered an offer. It sounds really complicated and needs the siblings to agree to most selling up and two staying or how much each Glazers dilutes their holding etc.
So much haggling will be needed for it to be acceptable and then they have to choose between the two
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yeah that’s true. The Qatar offer in terms of the Glazers perspective would be very quick and clean.
 
It does seem like nobody in the media really has a clue what's going on. I'm not sure the Glazers have a clue what's going on even. They just want as much money as they can possibly get.
 
Steve Bruce said:
If SJR does take over I hope your right in regarding existing debt but at the moment we really don't have a clue if he will do any of the 2 options you outlined. He could simply leave it where it is and have no intention of taking it off United's books.

The problem we have is we are all guessing what SJR or SJ are going to do.

Even statements about guaranteed investment, at this moment in time it's just words. When we get the process finished and the facts are displayed we'll know then and only then.

One thing's for certain, ETH and supporters are already suffering as we are seeing targets talking to other clubs and we are powerless to do anything and the longer this goes on the smaller the pool of players are available to us.
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If he does that the club won’t be able to buy and register players next season and he will start to incur more Fines from Uefa for being unsustainable within their new laws, he has no option to settle, remove or transfer the debt!

It’s why most fans who work in the financial sector are not worried about this, I would be more worried about what players he sanctions, a budget I believe that will be probably half every summer of SJ and Qatar and a pretty much carefree attitude like he’s adopted at Nice. There is no doubt SJR is impressive businessman, but when you spread yourself to thin and take on too many challenges you normally fail in most, I actually don’t care who wins, I just want the Glazers gone but I’m yet to see anything about SJR running of Nice that suggests he will have united competing for Titles.
 
Just popped over to Ben Jacob's personal Twitter page and, at the time of writing, his most recent messages concern James Maddison to Spurs. No mention of Beebaclass' UtdPlug update. Unless he's fed that to UtdPlug to keep them sweet.

Other than that he's told us talks are ongoing and that's about it. We know all this already. Another 'nothing burger' to go with a side of nothing and little else.
 
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Woziak said:
Here’s the thing, The FSP new laws are so destructive within the next two transfer windows you have to pay off the debt in some way or you can’t buy any players. I’ll explain this year the rule is 90% of turnover the club without CL last year May have turned over £550m, they also lost at least £100m so we are £450m, then there is £35m to service the debt, That’s £415m left 90% means we can spend £495m on wages but due to our loss and debt, the club is reduced to £415m, if our wage bill was the same as the year before of £386m, the club would only have £29m to spend on transfer fees, agent fees and wages. This fee would allow you buy one £75m player on a 5 year contract with wages of £125k per week. The agent fees is an upfront payment now governed by FIFA at 10% so £7.5m is paid from the £29m to the Agent when the transfer is agreed. That means that £21.5m is left per year for 5 years amortised contract, £15m per year to be paid to the selling club £6.5m is put on the United accounts to pay his wages.

The good news this year, is that we don’t face wages of £384m due to Europa League clauses probably our wage bill is more like £334m so that’s probably why the club is thinking of 2/3 players with wages and agent fees, I’m guessing our budget is £150-200m however if we sell Henderson for £30m, S Mctominay for £30m, B Williams £5m and Ellanga for £10m all these players are sold for net profit so we would have an additional £75m added to £79m giving us a huge £164m for transfers, agent fees and wages. Say you take half of that number for transfers that’s £80m then multiplied by 5 for contract length giving you a £400m budget, £30m of agent fees. And then the remaining £50m over 5 years gives wages for probably 6/7 top players.


Without selling players like those mentioned we will at most have a £200m budget, Moving P Jones, A Tuanzebe, Maguire, Telles, E Bailey, DVB are all good because they free up wages, some of which have already been used on Dalot, Shaw and Garnaucho’s new contracts, De Gea reduction from £375k to £200k just means the club can now pay M Rashford £375k instead of £200k.


Huge summer this year and ideally now we’ve decided to loan out Greenwood we could do with someone like Juventus paying his wages of £75k per week and a price to sell at £50m if he does well, this is why T they’ve not released him, he could represent huge net profit next season but he’ll never play for united again.
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Thank you for the explination. In your view, what Impact will Ronaldo leaving have on 'The Books' obviously a big wage gone but also a loss in revenue from shirt sales etc. Do we benefit from Ronaldo leaving (salary) or does it harm us?
 
I know the Qatari bid has never missed an opportunity to make it clear they'd clear the debt, where do we stand on this with Jim? I've sort of lost track.

Has he suggested the debt would be wiped at all?
 
Voteon said:
Just popped over to Ben Jacob's personal Twitter page and, at the time of writing, his most recent messages concern James Maddison to Spurs. No mention of your UtdPlug update. Unless he's fed that to UtdPlug to keep them sweet.

Other than that he's told us talks are ongoing and that's about it. We know all this already. Another 'nothing burger' to go with a side of nothing and little else.
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It was on a podcast
 
Licha M said:
I know the Qatari bid has never missed an opportunity to make it clear they'd clear the debt, where do we stand on this with Jim? I've sort of lost track.

Has he suggested the debt would be wiped at all?
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Nope. I think it's fair to assume he doesn't believe reducing our debt to nil is a particularly sensible thing to prioritise, which more business minded people than me seem to agree with.
 
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