Capital improvements by one shareholder is secured by granting additional shares for the capital injection. This will dilute the Glazers. This is standard stuff fellas.
Club Sale | It’s done!
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I understand the Glazers are exploring the potential sale of United
That shouldn't be a issue as long as there is put and call options for remaining shares of Glazer's .
Though I can't simply understand the wisdom behind it at all from Both Glazer's as well as Ineos point of view , if Ineos has also made the bid for Complete 69% as well with Similar valuation as 51% or so Stake as reported .
This sales is as slow as when we buy players. Usually only to be hijacked by other clubs.
Any capital investment paid by Ineos would be repaid in the form of being granted additional shares.
Arnoutovic interest ended pretty much the same day it started so it's not near disastrous as you claimed.
Gakpo was a second choice to Antony the whole time and that's what was briefed to us at the time.
Again, you're acting like it was a shit show when it was far from
Let me help you point them to what a shit show transfer window looks like, 2013 summer, that's a proper shit of a show.
This actually reflects the common, underneath true cause, the Glazers.
Summary of the last 100 pages from pro-Jim posters:
1) If Jassim wins the bid, it's not fair because its state funded.
2) If Jassim loses the bid, he's actually not that rich and he can't afford us.
3) If Jassim continuously puts in bids, does he even know how to negotiate? I wouldn't want an inept bloke to run our club!
So basically Jassim is either unfair, skint or dumb.
All of the above deriving from various unverified sources and tweets because no one actually knows anything due to iron clad NDAs.
Are there any pro-Jim posters who actually truly believe in Jim's ability to run our club (despite his verified unimpressive track record) and lead us back to our glory days, or do you guys just pick good ol' English Jim just because he's seemingly the lesser of two evils?
1) If Jassim wins the bid, it's not fair because its state funded.
2) If Jassim loses the bid, he's actually not that rich and he can't afford us.
3) If Jassim continuously puts in bids, does he even know how to negotiate? I wouldn't want an inept bloke to run our club!
So basically Jassim is either unfair, skint or dumb.
All of the above deriving from various unverified sources and tweets because no one actually knows anything due to iron clad NDAs.
Are there any pro-Jim posters who actually truly believe in Jim's ability to run our club (despite his verified unimpressive track record) and lead us back to our glory days, or do you guys just pick good ol' English Jim just because he's seemingly the lesser of two evils?
See this is where I disagree and suspect they actually want a full exit but for the highest price possible.
As you said, if 2 parasites wanted to stay they already have the offer they want in the SJR bid, so why hasn't it gone through or atleast progressed publicly?
I suspect it will be a full sale but they want Qatari's to increase their offer, they've done this but who knows if it's enough.
I even think Avi turning up at Wembley is primarily a negotiation tactic more than anything else.
Commiserations to our Qatari supporting friends.
Because the offer is complicated - it's not a clean takeover from day 1, rather a staged one with majority ownership and then purchases of more shares at designated points in time.
Plus they also gave a window to SJ to actually beat that and it seems he keeps underbidding. That's on him, he knows the magic number.
No I dont think Jim has the intention to invest now. Otherwise he has to give himself additional shares or dilute the glazers share to cover the expenses. Do you think the parasites will go onboard with that?
If we put aside the moral aspect of Middle Eastern money and just acknowledge what all that Qatari loot would do for the club then I do wonder if it has occurred to SJR that he is on dangerous ground winning the bid.
If Qatar go on and pump cash into another club while he spends €150M a year, keeps the debt and does minimum infrastructure upgrades won't he forever be remembered as the guy that stood in the way of Utd winning the lottery. Not how most "fans" would want to be remembered.
If Qatar go on and pump cash into another club while he spends €150M a year, keeps the debt and does minimum infrastructure upgrades won't he forever be remembered as the guy that stood in the way of Utd winning the lottery. Not how most "fans" would want to be remembered.
Since the Qatari side have let it be known they’ve made a 5th bid, and that it’s a premium on the current share price, is it possible they’re also leaking that Ineos are the favourites in order to keep that share price lower?
If it suddenly rocketed, his offer becomes less appealing to greedy under qualified businessmen
If it suddenly rocketed, his offer becomes less appealing to greedy under qualified businessmen
As bad as brexit is, and it is bad, it is nowhere near as bad as the autocratic regime of Qatar. Not yet, at least.
Personally, I'd rather have neither ratcliffe or qatar's state bid.
It's an educated guess by his own admission.
It 'reads to him'.
Do we have any "more likely" information about the latest bids?
Jassim is at £5-5.2bn = $6.2-6.5bn for 100% of the club (+ an additional £1bn investement in the club)
Ratcliffe is at £2.4bn = $3bn for 50.1% of the club
IF this is the case. Isn't Jassims bid higher? And he is paying upfront?
I guess I miss something since everyone says Jassims latest bid is still lower than SJR.
Jassim is at £5-5.2bn = $6.2-6.5bn for 100% of the club (+ an additional £1bn investement in the club)
Ratcliffe is at £2.4bn = $3bn for 50.1% of the club
IF this is the case. Isn't Jassims bid higher? And he is paying upfront?
I guess I miss something since everyone says Jassims latest bid is still lower than SJR.
I'm 'pro-Jim' only insofar he is definitely the lesser of two evils, but have no faith in him or Jassim returning United to glory.
I intend to protest Ratcliffe if he wins, also.
Just some questions swirling around, sorry for the long post, newbie's only get 3 bats per day.
On the assumption that SJR will win then, he takes this as either with full control, 69% or a simple majority 51%.
69% then great, job done. No-one is going to be too worried about the speculative shares on the NYSE, they only ever received smallish dividends and will return to their previous low value except , if others are correct, SJR dilutes the share holding by a couple of billion then the equation starts to swing. He will need a couple of billion for the stadium facilities squad etc.
He could inject his own money, but then would be benefitting the NYSE holders. He may do this because he has total control and overall benefits the most. He can always sell off total control in the future and expect a good return, as the Glazers will receive now.
Situation 2, simple majority.
There is no way this happens with the remaining (holdout) Glazers, whatever combination of Glazers, keeping class B shares.
Even with 7ish%, taking into account the new post takeover shares equation, they keep control. So all shares become Class A.
So Glazers keep 18% class A shares, plus any others they already have.
If SJR retains a simple majority then he relies on the holdout Glazers for any major changes to the club (ie full control - this being 2/3s of the voting shares ( that is why the Glazers never sold their stake to less than 67% (have 69% class B shares today))).
To make structural changes you need full control, the 2/3 s of the share votes.
Therefore he needs the holdout to bat in the right direction.
That requires a really refined agreement for both parties, that takes time and effort.
The problem is that that will eat into the transfer window.
So it will be interesting to see what transfer business is done before a deal is fully revealed. The more activity indicating that a plan has been agreed, assumption being the Glazers won't move players on at a loss etc because they look at book value not football value.
The holdouts will want to be assured of a good return, that their shares to be worth more in the future, but if this is guaranteed then non holdouts will want the same, they aren't short of money and could keep a stake. If they keep a stake then , because SJR wants at least a simple majority, the Glazers would need to share 18%, so less for each ! Question, would it be worth Joel and Av hanging around for 3% each?
Also why would the non holdouts agree to sell for less because the deal is being skewed to enable Joel and Avram to hang around for more money?
I am assuming that there is division amongst the Glazers, I assume Bryan (?), who attended the Cup Final is being softened by Avram?
Back to SJR, no way he invests more into the club unless he has a water tight agreement to buyout the holdouts.
Further no way he creates new shares to dilute the share structure unless he has a cast iron agreement, otherwise he is investing without being able to take full control and with no prospect of getting his over inflated valuation back, all things being equal.
Sundry points.
Some Glazers own class A shares, worth a few hundred million, based on the inflated take over value, another factor that needs to be added up when working out SJR's and SJ's bids. Darcey would not want that value to return to a third of the value that SJ is willing to pay today?
Would the NYSE money man allow her to sell at 3x the value of what their same class A shares will be worth, I don't know, if they don't the courts is where they go for clarity?
I would assume given SJ's Friday deadline, the Glazers will be going through their Excell spreadsheet scenarios 24/7, calling eachother out.
There no background to call Jassim's bid as "state bid". If it was a state bid, this would not have been a contest between Ratcliffe and the state of Qatar full stop.
At what point am I allowed to start taking the piss (a little) out of how long this is taking?
Weeks ago
And this is exacy why SJ finds himself chasing shadows. He makes all these bold statements about offering X amount to Glazers and Y amount to investment where the Glazers look and say " This chump is low balling us but has extra to do all that bollocks, he can get to feck"
Smart business people keep their cards close to their chest and don't sound off about how much extra they plan to spend before they buy the thing as it screams to the seller they could get more.
Probably get dragged out til the end of 2023, so I’d say when the Christmas tree is up (at that point it would have been over a year since their initial statement too)
These numbers are all speculation on the numbers from the journos who could be clueless bunch
but this is what they say
Jassim 5.2B GBP EV. Glazers get 3.6B now for their 69.5%. But they will benefit also from selling their 4.3% class A shares (for 220m) because Jassim want to buy 100% of the club.
Ratcliffe 5.5B GBP EV. Glazers get 2.75B now for 50.1% of their shares and 1B for the remaining 19% in 3 years.
If that is the case the Glazers would make more money from Jassim's deal if they just parked the money in the bank for 3 years.
Even states have limits, no state has paid anything close to this for a sports club.
They could go and buy multiple others for this price.
I genuinely don't believe Qatar/Jassim was ever all that interested, especially at the price the Glazers want, which is absurdly high btw.
I'm not too interested in being state owned but feck me does being owned by SJR & the Glazers while keeping all the debt sound pretty depressing.
Why can't the rats feck off completely, they didn't spend a penny of their own money acquiring the club yet they are still wringing it out for every £.
Only United could be stuck in this situation.
Why can't the rats feck off completely, they didn't spend a penny of their own money acquiring the club yet they are still wringing it out for every £.
Only United could be stuck in this situation.
If you're looking at the purchase from a business perspective you are correct. However, if you think of the silly money Ronaldo, Benzema, Kante and the golfers are getting it's not just purely for their skill sets. The whole point is marketing. United is unique as a club with a global reach no other club can achieve.
Yeah, it's completely bizarre to be negotiating a price and at the same time declaring the billion extra that you could be giving the Glaziers on the same asset.
This is why i dont get the support for the ratcliffe bid. The qatar bid is going to clear all the debt. We're close to £969mil of debt according to a report yesterday.
De Jong vibes with the overconfidence of a certain victor, a lot more in this then the perceived outcome being played out by a clueless media.
If Antony was the player the manager wanted like FDJ and he is a new manager for us, they would be desperately trying to get him what he wanted. If the manager and the selling club were digging their heels in what do you do. ETH might have realised he now has to move on to other targets in these situations.
Yeh, I don't think we have a clue at the moment. If the Glazers were so keen to stay on as minority shareholders they'd have already accepted SJRs bid in my opinion.
Thanks mate! Do we have any good sources of this Ratcliffe EV of 5.5B GBP? I only heard 3B USD for 50.1%.
And even if 5.5B GBP is true they would get a total of 3.75B GBP in 3 years with Jim? And with Jassim they would get 3.6B+220M = 3.82B GBP straight away?
This feels.. strange. Why is Jims bid better again? Is it just because Joel and Avram could stay for 3 years before getting kicked out?
they're hoping we miraculously make shed load more money. Thing is, how much could they rake in as minority investors? It's all rather complicated.
They would be banking on their shares going up in value then selling them.
It's possible to wipe all the debt and still be shit owners.
Of course everyone would prefer that the debt is gone. But it's not the only consideration.
Hoping, banking, speculating. It's not guaranteed.
I'm not even sure what a human being can do with that kind of money. It would also guarantee the financial security of many generations of your siblings and their offspring.
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