Club Sale | It’s done!

[thebelfastboy]

Matt Lawton is one of the most reliable journalists around and I don't believe for a second that what he wrote today is a narrative. It's reality. Even the likes of Mike Keegan continue to report that SJR is ahead.

"That reads to me like they fear Ratcliffe/Ineos have won and they’re walking away on their own terms"

It's complete conjecture from Lawton, he's not privy to the discussions, he's got a bit of information that is completely lacking in any sort of detail and then added his own spin to it. It's not factual at all.

 

[croadyman]

What worries me the most is how badly Nice have been run…

Yeah another reason it's hard to trust him

 

[Tom Van Persie]

"That reads to me like they fear Ratcliffe/Ineos have won and they’re walking away on their own terms"

It's complete conjecture from Lawton, he's not privy to the discussions, he's got a bit of information that is completely lacking in any sort of detail and then added his own spin to it. It's not factual at all.

"Sir Jim Ratcliffe and his petrochemicals firm, Ineos, have emerged as clear favourites to complete a deal with the club’s owners, the Glazer family, and have entered the final stages of negotiations with Raine, the New York bank handling the sale."

He isn't pulling that info out of his arse. He's well informed but believe what you want. I just think some people are in denial over this and can't accept the fact that SJR has been ahead of Qatar since the last round of bidding.

 

[GoldanoGraham]

I’m not sure people here understand debt properly. Most clubs (except Oil Clubs) have debt.

Every owner who goes in ‘loans’ money to the club. The owner should get this back when they exit all things being equal.

It’s how the debt is serviced that is the key. Spurs have enormous debt because of their stadium. However they have a plan and strategy to pay it back.

The Glazers have Utd on an Interest Only mortgage debt. They don’t pay down the capital - they just service the interest. And take large dividends. As the company is able to pay this then in a normal business environment this is more than acceptable. However, the lack of investment in the infrastructure and stadium is what hurts the most.

If SJR takes ownership then he will need debt to-make the upgrades that are needed. This will be financed but the key is the business plan to pay this back and prosper going forward, all whilst having enough available to fund the team during this period.

If the Qatari’s where not on the scene then everyone would be happy that the Glazers would be on their way out - if not fully immediately definitely within the next couple of years.

Nobody has yet seen or heard of any of the business plans that are being proposed.

While the bottomless pit of Qatari funds sounds too good to be true - it might just be that. Don’t write off the other offer without really understanding it. It is no small task to put together a solid £5bn offer without a lot of effort.

My personal belief is that they’ve been bluffing all along. If they really wanted out then this would have been done and dusted some time ago.

 

[croadyman]

I feel they are just baiting as much as possible out of Qatar here.

There's absolutely no reason for this process to be so drawn out if Jim is such a clear favourite.

So if they are just trying to bait out Qatar why is pretty much every form of British media reporting him as such overwhelming favourite

 

[Rhyme Animal]

So if they are just trying to bait out Qatar why is pretty much every form of British media reporting him as such overwhelming favourite

Perhaps because that’s what the Glazers are feeding them all in order to… you know… bait out more dosh from the boy Jassim!

 

[croadyman]

The reports from this new improved take it or leave it bid seem to suggest it's still under Sir Jim's valuation. Obviously we don't know this for fact but a lot of people are saying it.

Why keep bidding for something that somebody has bid more for? It's embarrassing at this point. Either trump the offer or walk away.

Yeah pointless not matching your rivals bid

 

[croadyman]

If Jassim was as rich as we thought and had the club interest as heart as his PR has led us to believe, I think he'd have made substantial increases to get the deal done.

The fact each bid is just slightly better than the last and still not as economically attractive as Ratcliffs means he's a bit fishy.

Yeah this is the part that does concern me about all of their bids right from the start

 

[Brownie85]

Just makes absolutely no sense to me that if SJR is so far ahead and that SJ is ready to walk away, why has there been no preferred bidder? Why haven't the Glazers just accepted what SJR has put on the table? If SJR is so far ahead, then this should be a done deal by now, or they should have been named as preferred bidder a while ago should he not?

 

[Gurtej]

The only fact I know is that no one has a freaking clue… everyone is firing in the dark and eventually one will be right!

All these journalists get hold of one piece in a string and write exclusive …

We don’t even know SJR plans, but everyone assume it’s not good … May be he has plans to wipe of the debt or rebuild a newstadium etc…

We will only know once it’s finalised

 

[DOTA]

The only fact I know is that no one has a freaking clue

I do.

 

[Red in STL]

I'm beginning to think that the Glazer's, the Qatari's and INEOS have a joint sideline in being paid for each comment made on this CAF thread

 

[croadyman]

Fan pressure caused the Glazers to spend to the point of almost losing the club… do you think they’d have thrown all that money at it if not for fan pressure?

Jassim’s offer and pledge to clear the debt will bring the debt firmly back into focus, and though people say they won’t care about fans, it’s actually really important for the success of a football model to have the fans onside. It factors greatly to how successful the project is.

Rat will immediately begin his reign as unpopular and with fans waiting to collectively release the tension and anger they feel at being so close to the removal of the Glazers only to have them remain.

The battle of hearts and minds will need to be addressed immediately or his public profile will go the same way as the Glazers.

This is good from a Utd POV is my point.

Yeah when Ratcliffe wins he needs to address the two big elephants in the room straight away. Unfortunately there won't be any cause for celebration due to those leeches staying on for another couple of years at least

 

[Rhyme Animal]

Yeah when Ratcliffe wins he needs to address the two big elephants in the room straight away. Unfortunately there won't be any cause for celebration due to those leeches staying on for another couple of years at least

Indeed. IF he wins.

 

[croadyman]

Why wouldn’t they have sold to SJR already if the bid was that great and so far ahead…

Yeah that's the odd part

 

[croadyman]

That’s far from a given. Why not wait to hear what he has to say when he isn’t bound by an NDA before jumping to conclusions.

The only thing we have heard from them about the debt is INEOS will take it on. Why is he so afraid to say he will clear the debt,can only be because has zero intention of doing that. So if the NDA was so binding how come Qatar weren't afraid to make bold statements.

 

[AlPistacho]

I’m not sure people here understand debt properly. Most clubs (except Oil Clubs) have debt.

Every owner who goes in ‘loans’ money to the club. The owner should get this back when they exit all things being equal.

It’s how the debt is serviced that is the key. Spurs have enormous debt because of their stadium. However they have a plan and strategy to pay it back.

The Glazers have Utd on an Interest Only mortgage debt. They don’t pay down the capital - they just service the interest. And take large dividends. As the company is able to pay this then in a normal business environment this is more than acceptable. However, the lack of investment in the infrastructure and stadium is what hurts the most.

If SJR takes ownership then he will need debt to-make the upgrades that are needed. This will be financed but the key is the business plan to pay this back and prosper going forward, all whilst having enough available to fund the team during this period.

If the Qatari’s where not on the scene then everyone would be happy that the Glazers would be on their way out - if not fully immediately definitely within the next couple of years.

Nobody has yet seen or heard of any of the business plans that are being proposed.

While the bottomless pit of Qatari funds sounds too good to be true - it might just be that. Don’t write off the other offer without really understanding it. It is no small task to put together a solid £5bn offer without a lot of effort.

My personal belief is that they’ve been bluffing all along. If they really wanted out then this would have been done and dusted some time ago.

Don’t think anyone would have objected if the glazers had bought the club with their own money and financed £1b to develop OT/Carrington.

 

[Chief123]

We are heading to the inevitable conclusion. Qatar taking over Utd.

 

[DOTA]

I'm beginning to think that the Glazer's, the Qatari's and INEOS have a joint sideline in being paid for each comment made on this CAF thread

 

[Member 105568]

That’s far from a given. Why not wait to hear what he has to say when he isn’t bound by an NDA before jumping to conclusions.

Exactly. Ratcliffe might turn out bad, but there’s no need for him to be publicly saying this or that. If Microsoft was buying another company, you wouldn’t hear the CEO giving a running commentary, and there are as big and bigger deals than this happening all the time.

 

[Gurtej]

Yeah this is the part that does concern me about all of their bids right from the start

Dont be stupid now!! They are rich not stupid! Stupidity on this forum about Qataris Just throwing money away is laughable.

 

[croadyman]

We are heading to the inevitable conclusion. Qatar taking over Utd.

How are you coming to that conclusion

 

[Mr Smith]

I’m not sure people here understand debt properly. Most clubs (except Oil Clubs) have debt.

Every owner who goes in ‘loans’ money to the club. The owner should get this back when they exit all things being equal.

It’s how the debt is serviced that is the key. Spurs have enormous debt because of their stadium. However they have a plan and strategy to pay it back.

The Glazers have Utd on an Interest Only mortgage debt. They don’t pay down the capital - they just service the interest. And take large dividends. As the company is able to pay this then in a normal business environment this is more than acceptable. However, the lack of investment in the infrastructure and stadium is what hurts the most.

If SJR takes ownership then he will need debt to-make the upgrades that are needed. This will be financed but the key is the business plan to pay this back and prosper going forward, all whilst having enough available to fund the team during this period.

If the Qatari’s where not on the scene then everyone would be happy that the Glazers would be on their way out - if not fully immediately definitely within the next couple of years.

Nobody has yet seen or heard of any of the business plans that are being proposed.

While the bottomless pit of Qatari funds sounds too good to be true - it might just be that. Don’t write off the other offer without really understanding it. It is no small task to put together a solid £5bn offer without a lot of effort.

My personal belief is that they’ve been bluffing all along. If they really wanted out then this would have been done and dusted some time ago.

Great post and i agree with all of this except the last bit. There's been enough information that we know the situation re intentions; four Glazers want to sell, while Joel and Avram want to stick around. So it's not a bluff so much as they've been pressured to sell and are exploring options. That why I think Sir Jim and Ineos is likely; it's the best of both worlds for Joel/Avram, as they get to stay involved and earn money for longer while no longer being the figurehead.

 

[croadyman]

Great post and i agree with all of this except the last bit. There's been enough information that we know the situation re intentions; four Glazers want to sell, while Joel and Avram want to stick around. So it's not a bluff so much as they've been pressured to sell and are exploring options. That why I think Sir Jim and Ineos is likely; it's the best of both worlds for Joel/Avram, as they get to stay involved and earn money for longer while no longer being the figurehead.

Yeah they are gonna be sticking around sadly

 

[Tarrou]

There's been very little focus on how Ratcliffe would finance this purchase. Lots of talk about what the funding source behind the Qatari bid might be. With Ratcliffe the only real scrutiny seems to be an assumption his inflated net worth estimate is actual cash.

this again

he will borrow against Ineos assets and revenues, literally everyone in the world knows this apart from you it seems

 

[AlPistacho]

That’s far from a given. Why not wait to hear what he has to say when he isn’t bound by an NDA before jumping to conclusions.

An NDA would not have prevented him from saying he’d clear the debt, invest in stadium/Carrington , invest in men’s & women’s squad and local area.

We know this because Jassim has been clear about what he will do.

 

[croadyman]

An NDA would not have prevented him from saying he’d clear the debt, invest in stadium/Carrington , invest in men’s & women’s squad and local area.

We know this because Jassim has been clear about what he will do.

Yeah exactly he had a chance to say it

 

[Rhyme Animal]

Yeah they are gonna be sticking around sadly

Don’t be so sure.

 

[Devil You Know]

Given they're bypassing Raine Group as the middle man, any leaks about Jassim's bid must be coming directly from Jassim's team or are being completely made up by reporters. In either case, they can't be believed.

Anyone in this thread who thinks they've got any idea about how negotiations are going is deluded. Aside from the NDAs, all parties involved are hard nosed business people who will only do what benefit themselves. At best we're all being misdirected by PR fluff. This is a blind situation, so the best guess we can possibly make is that it's 50-50. It's Schroedinger's Cat. Nobody is "in the lead" until the press release telling us the sale is made.

If anyone here has watched Succession, this is that. The patriarch has passed away so the kids are squabbling about the deal and nobody on the streets knows any of the drama going on behind the scenes.

 

[BTG]

I'm not exactly the smartest guy in the room, but usually bidding wars really only work when you have multiple parties bidding against each other.

Hopefully this never ending saga is finally drawing to a close.

I honestly don't know what's been worse GoT season 8 or this sale.
Feels like they've lasted the same amount of time and the ending is going to be just as underwhelming.

 

[AlPistacho]

Given they're bypassing Raine Group as the middle man, any leaks about Jassim's bid must be coming directly from Jassim's team or are being completely made up by reporters. In either case, they can't be believed.

Anyone in this thread who thinks they've got any idea about how negotiations are going is deluded. Aside from the NDAs, all parties involved are hard nosed business people who will only do what benefit themselves. At best we're all being misdirected by PR fluff. This is a blind situation, so the best guess we can possibly make is that it's 50-50. It's Schroedinger's Cat. Nobody is "in the lead" until the press release telling us the sale is made.

If anyone here has watched Succession, this is that. The patriarch has passed away so the kids are squabbling about the deal and nobody on the streets knows any of the drama going on behind the scenes.

Both parties made statements announcing their bids in November and what they’d bring to the table.

 

[Sir Erik ten Hag]

I'm not exactly the smartest guy in the room, but usually bidding wars really only work when you have multiple parties bidding against each other.

Hopefully this never ending saga is finally drawing to a close.

I honestly don't know what's been worse GoT season 8 or this sale.
Feels like they've lasted the same amount of time and the ending is going to be just as underwhelming.

Jassim: This is my bid.
Glazers: I don't want it.

 

[croadyman]

Don’t be so sure.

Know something we don’t then?

 

[croadyman]

Both parties made statements announcing their bids in November and what they’d bring to the table.

Shame Ratcliffe still hasn't addressed debt

 

[Water Melon]

Ineos will take additional debt to buy United. The already existing debt will be undertaken by them as well. Now does anyone believe that the money that the Club generates will not be used to pay the debt off?

 

[Sultan]

The reports from this new improved take it or leave it bid seem to suggest it's still under Sir Jim's valuation. Obviously we don't know this for fact but a lot of people are saying it.

Why keep bidding for something that somebody has bid more for? It's embarrassing at this point. Either trump the offer or walk away.

There could be merit to both bids even though the finances might not match each other.

 

[Water Melon]

Great post and i agree with all of this except the last bit. There's been enough information that we know the situation re intentions; four Glazers want to sell, while Joel and Avram want to stick around. So it's not a bluff so much as they've been pressured to sell and are exploring options. That why I think Sir Jim and Ineos is likely; it's the best of both worlds for Joel/Avram, as they get to stay involved and earn money for longer while no longer being the figurehead.

Will Ineos invest substantially whilst the two leeches are still holders of B-class shares? Why undertake the existing debt and take a new loan and still have the 2 cnuts on Board?

 

[nainaisson]

I honestly don't know what's been worse GoT season 8 or this sale.

If Sheikh Jassim flew a giant undead dragon around, he'd have won the bid by now.

 

[noelyman]

If Sheikh Jassim flew a giant undead dragon around, he'd have won the bid by now.

Yeah and after his inevitable dragon fuelled victory it would be awesome if he went and torched the Glazers to cinders on a final farewell flyby.

 

[DSG]

One thing I would say is that the Jim bid as been on the table for months…if they were really interested in that option then why haven’t they accepted that bid?


They 100% want to sell to Qatar I don’t buy the narrative that Jim is well ahead.

This makes sense to me. Why do they keep encouraging Qatar to improve their bid while Sir Jim treads water. Something fishy here.

Jassim has spent the past 5 weeks pinging bids at nobody, doesn't even seem like Raine are bothering to answer him yet they are in advanced negotiations with Ratcliffe which is beyond the bid on the table process... It's a 5bn+ acquisition not the purchase of a 2k ford fiesta, bit more to it than 3 sheets of paper and a signature.

Once the key points of the deal are agreed to, yes, the paperwork takes time, but usually they close bidding. The board/management shift gears into executing the due diligence and finalizing the paperwork. You don’t continue to solicit bids. An MOU with the deal points is signed, typically with an exclusivity clause that bars the selling party the right to solicit other offers while under due diligence. We’re talking potentially millions of pounds in legal fees and investment banking fees fellas. You still get billed for those no matter if the deal goes through.

It’s still alive fellas.