Club Sale | It’s done!

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Everyone of you who wants Oilchester United and Oil Trafford please just go and support City or Newcastle.
 
Some are so deeply entrenched in a “side” of this debate that the conversation becomes hilarious to read. No matter what, defend defend defend.

I hate both likely parties, one just a bit than the other. Typing out paragraphs after paragraphs, page after page is bonkers.
 
glasgow 21 said:
So we still have all fans despising Glaziers, SJR fans giving it to SJ fans whilst soon Liverpool will be giving it to both when Qatar move their interest to them. Have I missed anything ?
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Yeah…Jassim, as a longstanding and devoted United fan, wouldn’t dream of buying Liverpool.
 
Pexbo said:
It wasn’t rhetorical, I assumed that much was obvious and I just hoped for a bit of detail in the answer.
  1. United have been haemorrhaging money for the last decade.
  2. Dividends are minuscule compared to the required investment.
  3. The club needs about £1.5bn spending on infrastructure.
  4. Football wise we are eons behind our competition and need major investment in the squad.
  5. We have a huge amount of debt already.
  6. Debt is really fecking expensive right now
Where does Ratcliffe/INEOS see profit in this club?
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You’d have to ask him that. I’m merely pointing out the blinding obvious. He won’t spent 5 billion quid on an asset that he doesn’t think he can monetise.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
I haven’t seen any posts saying he would run the club as a non-profit, no. However he chooses to finance the debt, he can still earn plenty of money from owning the club.
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Plant0x84 said:
It’s been posted many times, including footage of the man himself (admittedly talking about Chelsea but it’s relevant).
He doesn’t want to make money from an investment in a football club, he’s looking to build a legacy for himself. It’s a challenge of running the club really well, putting the club back at the top of European football and winning the biggest prizes. It’s a sporting project he is interested in, not a business venture. The return is how he is remembered in the future.
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This was literally the post after you said you haven't seen anyone suggest Ratcliffe is not looking to make money out of this.

For what it's worth, trying to own a successful asset which will increase in value is a smart business move and one that should not be a cause for concern. People are worried about what would Ineos consider success? Is top 4 and going deep in some domestic cup competition or the second rate European one going to be fine like with the Glazers? That has still allowed the club to grow in value over the years.

All these questions are more valid for Ineos than SJ (assuming it is a State backed bid).
 
JPRouve said:
You haven't seen people suggest that his goal wasn't to make money out of United, that he had no intention to take dividends and would finance the debt himself through INEOS? That's a core point used in favor of INEOS.
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People say he'll finance the debt through Ineos is because that's all he can do unless he pays cash, the football club cannot pay even just the interest themselves based on the figures quoted and then revenue and operating costs currently at the club unless you think his intention is to fold the club completely, saying these things isn't a guess it's based on facts that are readily available to anyone I mean the club have made losses for x3 straight years but yeah they'll be able to finance multiple billions in loans, I am sure all the banks are clamouring to make this deal.

I mean this is just common sense, but I am not sure this thread is the place for common sense.
 
NK86 said:
This was literally the post after you said you haven't seen anyone suggest Ratcliffe is not looking to make money out of this.
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Who gives a shit. Let him make some money. As long as he doesn't bleed us dry like the Glazers are doing. At first it was about getting rid of them, now all of sudden people want to sell the soul of our club just for the most money.
 
Gavinb33 said:
People say he'll finance the debt through Ineos is because that's all he can do unless he pays cash, the football club cannot pay even pay just the interest themselves based on the figures quoted and then revenue and operating costs currently at the club unless you think his intention is to fold the club completely, saying these things isn't a guess it's based on facts that are readily available to anyone I mean the club have made losses for x3 straight years but yeah they'll be able to finance multiple billions in loans, I am sure all the banks are clamouring to make this deal.

I mean this is just common sense, but I am not sure this thread is the place for common sense.
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You think banks don't give out loans for debt laden or overpriced assets? Was that a serious statement?
 
JPB said:
Who gives a shit. Let him make some money. As long as he doesn't bleed us dry like the Glazers are doing. At first it was about getting rid of them, now all of sudden people want to sell the soul of our club just for the most money.
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Sell the soul of the club. That's a statement which I just cannot understand. When we went public, did we sell the soul for capitalism?
 
MackRobinson said:
Can you list all the trophies City won without corruption and outright cheating?

Are bragging rights that important to you?
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I'd rather have trophies and medals then have united at 8th place while sitting on the moral high ground. That's how football works. Which is why Pep is considered the best manager at the moment while ole can't even find a pub team to manage
 
Gavinb33 said:
People say he'll finance the debt through Ineos is because that's all he can do unless he pays cash, the football club cannot pay even just the interest themselves based on the figures quoted and then revenue and operating costs currently at the club unless you think his intention is to fold the club completely, saying these things isn't a guess it's based on facts that are readily available to anyone I mean the club have made losses for x3 straight years but yeah they'll be able to finance multiple billions in loans, I am sure all the banks are clamouring to make this deal.

I mean this is just common sense, but I am not sure this thread is the place for common sense.
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So you are saying that Ineos are going to pay without ever taking any revenue away from Manchester United?
 
NK86 said:
Sell the soul of the club. That's a statement which I just cannot understand. When we went public, did we sell the soul for capitalism?
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What else do you call itPeople are being greedy money whores.
devilish said:
I'd rather have trophies and medals then have united at 8th place while sitting on the moral high ground. That's how football works. Which is why Pep is considered the best manager at the moment while ole can't even find a pub team to manage
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I'd rather watch us in the Championship then being gifted success. Just sopport City mate, seriously.
 
JPB said:
Everyone of you who wants Oilchester United and Oil Trafford please just go and support City or Newcastle.
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Why? - We still have FFP to adhere to so its not like Jassim can spunk half a billion on players. However, what they can do is improve, redevelop or build a new staduim, provide a World Class training complex and improve the locality and infrastucture around the stadium. This isnt money going into the pockets of the parasites, its money being ploughed into the Club and Manchester. I really dont understand what is so wrong with that?
 
JPB said:
What else do you call itPeople are being greedy money whores.

I'd rather watch us in the Championship then being gifted success. Just sopport City mate, seriously.
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Well I want united to be successful. You'd rather want it in the championship. Why should I be the one switching support? Abus agree with you more then they agree with me. They would love to see us owned by ineos. So you might as well join them

And don't worry ineos have ample experience in getting clubs relegated.
 
devilish said:
Well I want united to be successful. You'd rather want it in the championship. Why should I be the one switching support? And don't worry ineos have ample experience in getting clubs relegated. So you might get your wish.
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Sound.
 
NK86 said:
This was literally the post after you said you haven't seen anyone suggest Ratcliffe is not looking to make money out of this.

For what it's worth, trying to own a successful asset which will increase in value is a smart business move and one that should not be a cause for concern. People are worried about what would Ineos consider success? Is top 4 and going deep in some domestic cup competition or the second rate European one going to be fine like with the Glazers? That has still allowed the club to grow in value over the years.

All these questions are more valid for Ineos than SJ (assuming it is a State backed bid).
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My bad. I underestimated how completely people (on both sides) have lost their minds in this thread.

And I don’t get your concerns. There’s no way to run a club where you just qualify for the CL every season and go deep in cup competitions without ever winning anything. If a club gets enough money spent to regularly achieve the above then they will compete for the league title if/when they get the right manager/sign the right players. That’s the really difficult part. As I pointed out yesterday, our horrific decade was not down to lack of spending. Our net spend has been higher than City’s.
 
JPB said:
What else do you call itPeople are being greedy money whores.

I'd rather watch us in the Championship then being gifted success. Just sopport City mate, seriously.
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I get you want Ineos to win the bid to buy us, but it's not really a great idea to ask people to support other clubs based on their opinions on who will be a better owner.
 
JPB said:
Sound.
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Also note that most Abus agree with you. They would rather see us owned by ineos then by Qatar. So if you leave then you will find yourself in far better company then I do
 
Pogue Mahone said:
Are those rhetorical questions? Why does any non nation state buy a football club? Because they think they can make money out of it.
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This is wrong btw and if you listened to Ratcliffe's interviews in the last year you'd see that.

He makes buckets of cash from INEOS and if he wanted to make more, he'd focus his investment in that area and he says as much in the interview. He's very clear that he makes his money from INEOS and laughed at the idea his motive behind buying a football club would be financial profit.

Obviously he'd try to increase the value of the club and raise revenues because that's the route to sporting success due to FFP anyway, so it's a bit of a moot point regardless.
 
Blackbeard said:
Probably say that about every mainstream newspaper in the country to be honest.
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I can't argue with that.
You would think in the present level of technology our information would be top notch.
I believe we are currently more misinformed than we ever have been.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
My bad. I underestimated how completely people (on both sides) have lost their minds in this thread.

And I don’t get your concerns. There’s no way to run a club where you just qualify for the CL every season and go deep in cup competitions without ever winning anything. If a club gets enough money spent to regularly achieve the above then they will compete for the league title if/when they get the right manager/sign the right players. That’s the really difficult part. As I pointed out yesterday, our horrific decade was not down to lack of spending. Our net spend has been higher than City’s.
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I'm too lazy but there are also articles about it, suggesting that it's not about money but legacy. And to be clear I'm not even doubting it, the point was that Ratcliffe motivations can be applied to anyone, if one accepts them for Ratcliffe why wouldn't they accept them for others?
 
Syphon Wallet said:
I can't argue with that.
You would think in the present level of technology our information would be top notch.
I believe we are currently more misinformed than we ever have been.
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He doesn't sound anywhere near to make Nice and Lausanne successful. Also both clubs are horribly managed. It's embarrassing
 
«The company insists there are no financial risks. Ineos does not expect to make money from sport. People close to him say Sir Jim is chasing emotional returns over financial ones. It is a luxury that few sporting outfits can afford.»

https://www.ft.com/content/31b5e7e0-5c76-11ea-b0ab-339c2307bcd4

This article is way before they considered investing in Man Utd. I really dont think anyone investing £5-6 bill do so because they expect to make money on that investment. Atleast not in the form of dividends.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
My bad. I underestimated how completely people (on both sides) have lost their minds in this thread.

And I don’t get your concerns. There’s no way to run a club where you just qualify for the CL every season and go deep in cup competitions without ever winning anything. If a club gets enough money spent to regularly achieve the above then they will compete for the league title if/when they get the right manager/sign the right players. That’s the really difficult part. As I pointed out yesterday, our horrific decade was not down to lack of spending. Our net spend has been higher than City’s.
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I disagree. Arsenal were a perennial top 4 side for the last part of Wenger's reign and they constantly added decent enough players to get that spot, barely ever challenging in the PL or CL. Sure they won an FA cup or two, but that is the whole question. Would that be enough and you surely cannot say that Arsenal too haven't grown in value (like most clubs due to to the insane TV revenue and money in PL right now).

If ESL ever comes to life, then that is another way to grow your top line without having to necessarily be successful, much like the closed shop in US sports.

Football is the most popular sport in the world. Unless the whole economy crashes and burns to the ground never to recover, clubs will grow in value as long as they are doing just enough, especially one as big as United with an enormous and loyal fan following.
 
andersj said:
«The company insists there are no financial risks. Ineos does not expect to make money from sport. People close to him say Sir Jim is chasing emotional returns over financial ones. It is a luxury that few sporting outfits can afford.»

https://www.ft.com/content/31b5e7e0-5c76-11ea-b0ab-339c2307bcd4

This article is way before they considered investing in Man Utd. I really dont think anyone investing £5-6 bill do so because they expect to make money on that investment. Atleast not in the form of dividends.
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Ineos promised lausanne European football. They got them relegated instead (twice). They promised Nice regular CL football. They never qualified instead. Does anyone care what Ineos say?
 
devilish said:
Also note that most Abus agree with you. They would rather see us owned by ineos then by Qatar. So if you leave then you will find yourself in far better company then I do
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Not only the ABU's - the Premier League and the FA will dread Qatar money behind us, especially if the FA bottle the enquiry into City's transgressions. If nothing is done against City, United with a free rein to copy City's business practices will blow most people out of the league.
 
NK86 said:
This was literally the post after you said you haven't seen anyone suggest Ratcliffe is not looking to make money out of this.

For what it's worth, trying to own a successful asset which will increase in value is a smart business move and one that should not be a cause for concern. People are worried about what would Ineos consider success? Is top 4 and going deep in some domestic cup competition or the second rate European one going to be fine like with the Glazers? That has still allowed the club to grow in value over the years.

All these questions are more valid for Ineos than SJ (assuming it is a State backed bid).
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We are ambitious and highly competitive and would want to invest in Manchester United to make them the No. 1 club in the world once again. We want a Manchester United anchored in its proud history and roots in the northwest of England, clearly focusing on winning the Champions League."
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I hope that’s clear. It’s about winning.
 
devilish said:
I'd rather have cheat to win trophies and medals like City rather then have united not cheat and potentially be 8th. That's how I want football to work and if you disagree with cheating you are just taking the moral high ground. Now I'm going to bring up Pep and Ole to deflect from me defending City's cheating.
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Fixed that for you.

The potential oil money has fans so twisted they are defending City's outright cheating. Crazy times.
 
HarryP said:
This is wrong btw and if you listened to Ratcliffe's interviews in the last year you'd see that.

He makes buckets of cash from INEOS and if he wanted to make more, he'd focus his investment in that area and he says as much in the interview. He's very clear that he makes his money from INEOS and laughed at the idea his motive behind buying a football club would be financial profit.

Obviously he'd try to increase the value of the club and raise revenues because that's the route to sporting success due to FFP anyway, so it's a bit of a moot point regardless.
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When has a businessman ever lied about his true intentions about profiteering in public, right? Considering how clubs are treated like hallowed institutions by their fans, why would any businessman who isn't certified insane, ever say that they want to buy a club to make money off of it and that's the end game for them.
 
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