Club Sale | It’s done!

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FujiVice said:
Football is important to millions of people around the world for their mental health. Ultimately its a game to enjoy at the end of the day, so I blame nobody for watching it while there is a massive human rights cloud over it. For me, I dont think I could continue to support the club because I'm to far deep into the idea of what this club is. And a oil ownership essentially owns our history and what I love about Manchester United, and I dont think I can support that. But I dont fault anyone who can continue with it. Its hard to fall out of love.
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Do they? I don’t think the Glazers own that. I wouldn’t think Ratcliffe or Amazon owned that if they took over. I’ve always dissociated the ownership and the club - the club is far too big and important for one entity to claim ownership of all things Manchester United as if it were property. They’re just paying for the privilege of running the club for a bit before inevitably fecking off at some point.
 
The worry with state owners is they run us like PSG. I don't think as many will take exception if run with the ethos of the club in mind
 
crossy1686 said:
The alternative is they sell to an American consortium who load the club with debt (ala Chelsea). Our options aren't great but the only one that pleases the fans long term is State owned, which is depressing really.
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Is there a consortium out there which wont load the club with debt?
 
When Man City and Newcastle were taken over by their current owners the backlash from the media will be minuscule in comparison to the backlash should United be taken over by Qatar Holding (or similar)


It will bring so much negative attention to the club. It will be an avalanche of disdain and the focus on the club will no longer be on the football.

The club will be slaughtered.
 
Zippycup said:
When Man City and Newcastle were taken over by their current owners the backlash from the media will be minuscule in comparison to the backlash should United be taken over by Qatar Holding (or similar)


It will bring so much negative attention to the club. It will be an avalanche of disdain and the focus on the club will no longer be on the football.

The club will be slaughtered.
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Sad part is there was no media backlash for Newcastle and City takeover.
 
Slysi17 said:
What are you saying then. Because you're post clearly said why aren't people ruling out a partial sale. A partial sale is literally the Glazers just getting investment and retaining control. That scenario won't happen. As posters have said no one in their right mind will give the Glazers money. So they will sell. If I have misunderstood your post then I am happy for it to be clarified. Plus why mention my daily posts running out. What has that go to do with anything.
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I think in this case it is important to note that some of the current owners want to sell and some don't. The club is not currently owned by one individual. Given that it has been reported that Joel and Abram looked at raising finance to buy their siblings interest. This suggests they would happy to continue with co ownership type arrangement.

The Saudi's have invested 2bn in twitter recently yet they are not in control of that, were they not in their right mind in that instance?

The Saudi's paid 300m for Newcastle 12 ago. Given the price the glazer family is looking for, I find it hard to see how the new owners won't be a consortium which could very possibly be led by Joel and Avram Glazer.

They may sell the whole lot, they may sell a small stake allowing them to retain control or they may sell majority. Who knows. All three options are on the table and all are perfectly viable and legal. I still haven't heard an argument as to why it won't be partial sale other that 'no way' 'out of their minds etc'
 
Zippycup said:
When Man City and Newcastle were taken over by their current owners the backlash from the media will be minuscule in comparison to the backlash should United be taken over by Qatar Holding (or similar)


It will bring so much negative attention to the club. It will be an avalanche of disdain and the focus on the club will no longer be on the football.

The club will be slaughtered.
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This would be different how exactly?
 
Zippycup said:
When Man City and Newcastle were taken over by their current owners the backlash from the media will be minuscule in comparison to the backlash should United be taken over by Qatar Holding (or similar)


It will bring so much negative attention to the club. It will be an avalanche of disdain and the focus on the club will no longer be on the football.

The club will be slaughtered.
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To be fair, I don't feel City get as much recognition as they would normally get if they weren't state funded, but that could also be because they genuinely have no fans so what's the point in writing about them if no one wants to read it?

However, you're right. United will get absolutely hammered and every story will be about fan outrage, hypocrisy, moral implications etc.
 
TrebleChamp99 said:
Look I’m definitely not condoning any actions of the oil states but you’d have to be beyond naieve to think that they don’t have their fingers in a lot more pies than just football.

From the computers and software we use day to day to the very country we live in , there is a lot of Middle Eastern wealth and investment funding it to some degree.

In the grand scheme of things a football club is small fry and doesn’t influence how we live our lives. I’m interested in United competing and enjoying the ride.

If you are staunchly against Middle Eastern money I suggest you look up what they invest in (including uk gov) and maybe consider boycotting those things also.
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Very good post. Deserves a like.
 
Elcabron said:
Very good post. Deserves a like.
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Why? Because it aligns with your own opinion? The argument that devout followers of United shouldn't be against Middle Eastern state ownership because Middle Eastern money is part of the UK government is nonsensical.
 
TrebleChamp99 said:
Look I’m definitely not condoning any actions of the oil states but you’d have to be beyond naieve to think that they don’t have their fingers in a lot more pies than just football.

From the computers and software we use day to day to the very country we live in , there is a lot of Middle Eastern wealth and investment funding it to some degree.

In the grand scheme of things a football club is small fry and doesn’t influence how we live our lives. I’m interested in United competing and enjoying the ride.

If you are staunchly against Middle Eastern money I suggest you look up what they invest in (including uk gov) and maybe consider boycotting those things also.
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Although you're right, people can still be unhappy about their football club being owned by a morally corrupt state. You don't have to quietly accept it because it's most likely your bank, home or company is part funded by the same morally corrupt state.

Whataboutism is bollocks and makes zero sense when you think about. Why question anything if it wasn't questioned before and is already happening? You do realise the reason you are allowed to speak your mind today is because people started asking questions a long time ago?
 
VP89 said:
The worry with state owners is they run us like PSG. I don't think as many will take exception if run with the ethos of the club in mind
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I think PSG are the worst case of state run football club but the owners pretty much had free reign to do whatever they wanted due to the club only being founded in the 1980's. If we do get hands on owners who treat it like they're personal toy we could be in trouble.
 
crossy1686 said:
To be fair, I don't feel City get as much recognition as they would normally get if they weren't state funded, but that could also be because they genuinely have no fans so what's the point in writing about them if no one wants to read it?

However, you're right. United will get absolutely hammered and every story will be about fan outrage, hypocrisy, moral implications etc.
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Who cares, rival fans have always hated Utd, i don`t give two hoot what people say. City are a well run club and will continue to have success and it`s not hollow the record books will have their names on every trophy won. Newcastle have done really well in a short time and once they start qualifying for Champs league will be able to spend more. We need to stop mixing politics and football, Qatar did a great job and for a country who don`t have much experience i think they hosted it pretty well. For fans who will stop supporting Utd if bought by the Oil state well you will be replaced by new fans, Utd have fans all over the world who don`t all necessarily see a problem with this type of ownership. Times are changing and fans like me who supported Utd since the 70`s will either adapt or find another sport.
 
oneway said:
Who cares, rival fans have always hated Utd, i don`t give two hoot what people say. City are a well run club and will continue to have success and it`s not hollow the record books will have their names on every trophy won. Newcastle have done really well in a short time and once they start qualifying for Champs league will be able to spend more. We need to stop mixing politics and football, Qatar did a great job and for a country who don`t have much experience i think they hosted it pretty well. For fans who will stop supporting Utd if bought by the Oil state well you will be replaced by new fans, Utd have fans all over the world who don`t all necessarily see a problem with this type of ownership. Times are changing and fans like me who supported Utd since the 70`s will either adapt or find another sport.
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Who said I cared? Just agreeing with the previous poster.
 
VP89 said:
The worry with state owners is they run us like PSG. I don't think as many will take exception if run with the ethos of the club in mind
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It depends on the ones involved on the owner side I suppose. The former (he died young some years ago) Crowne Prince of Dubai was a well-known massive United fan. The current Crowne Prince (Hamdan, who is the younger brother of the one who died) who also is the chairman of the massive ICD sovereign wealth fun and rumoured buyer, is said (by one on this thread who based it on info he has in Dubai) to be influenced by his late brother when it comes to picking his football team, so maybe he would be personally involved in running the club if they end up buying us. The same has been said of the current Emir of Qatar, but don't know much about the Al Thani family.
 
I should be happy about the Glazers selling, but there's a depressing aura around it. We're going to end up with Oil or some other cnut. It's going to be bad.
 
SirReginald said:
That’s what a lack of recent success and poor board management will do to you. Some people are happy to be hypocrites if it meant you became successful again.
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More the resignation to the fact that the FA and PL has opened to door to outside money so easily (starting with Roman) so that the only way to compete over time is to get financially doped up by external money.
 
redcucumber said:
Why? Because it aligns with your own opinion? The argument that devout followers of United shouldn't be against Middle Eastern state ownership because Middle Eastern money is part of the UK government is nonsensical.
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Nope wasn't for that reason.
 
redcucumber said:
Why? Because it aligns with your own opinion? The argument that devout followers of United shouldn't be against Middle Eastern state ownership because Middle Eastern money is part of the UK government is nonsensical.
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At the same time, everything else aside, what are we arguing about here, is anyone in favor of Middle Eastern owners?

For a long while, every other football club, was financed by some nearby industry. Especially in Europe. A steel mill or mine or car factory or whatever. Often only through sponship, while the UK always had more of a private ownership setup as I understand. We were owned or run by some kind of brewery back in the day, right? In most cases, the logic simply was that the workers followed football and hence their employers gave money to the football club.

Football clubs have always been some kind of tool for something. From opium to the people to wealthy oligarchs/bandits looking to get a door opener. Now it’s states.

Ultimately, there is very little mobility in football. It’s not true that it’s impossible, many simply does not do a great job. If like Everton had done a fantastic job, foresaw developments in the game, scouted better than everyone else — and so forth — the sky is the limit. But it takes something extraordinary to climb like that. We are an organization that has been plundered by our owners and mismanaged. That has pushed us way down the ladder. But thankfully — we had an extremely good position before the Glazers came in. If our brass did an insanely good job managing this club, we could raise again. But to be sure of any kind of success, we need outside investments on the same level of our peers.

And for the same reasons our peers have certain type of owners, we will also most likely get the same type of owners. I.e. they will be filthy rich. Among them, I don’t think anyone wants someone with issues, like an oilstate. But it is what it is.
 
Mickeza said:
Do they? I don’t think the Glazers own that. I wouldn’t think Ratcliffe or Amazon owned that if they took over. I’ve always dissociated the ownership and the club - the club is far too big and important for one entity to claim ownership of all things Manchester United as if it were property. They’re just paying for the privilege of running the club for a bit before inevitably fecking off at some point.
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Agreed. And that is why I will always support United, whoever the owners are. What’s the alternative? Pick your team based on the owners? Maybe start supporting Wrexham because you liked Deadpool?
 
Elcabron said:
Why are people so adamant that it won't be a partial sale?
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People will generally assign a lower probability to events that they don't want to happen.

Ultimately, only the Glazers themselves will know what outcome is most desirable/acceptable and everything else is speculation. Avram Glazer, when asked about 'the sale' by The Athletic last week in Qatar said, “it's not necessarily a sale, it's a process and we're going forward with the process, so we'll see what happens.”.
 
Elcabron said:
Why are people so adamant that it won't be a partial sale? Isn't it the case that Joel and Avram wanted to buy their siblings out but just couldn't afford it? If so then I could see an oil state buying the siblings interest with Joel and Avram holding onto their share.

Might be better than full sale to oil state and it would hopefully lead to some debt clearance and investment in the stadium.
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I think the Athletic reported they tried this with Apollo Investors in autumn and it didn't fly.
 
Elcabron said:
Why are people so adamant that it won't be a partial sale? Isn't it the case that Joel and Avram wanted to buy their siblings out but just couldn't afford it? If so then I could see an oil state buying the siblings interest with Joel and Avram holding onto their share.

Might be better than full sale to oil state and it would hopefully lead to some debt clearance and investment in the stadium.
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Because the only person banging on about a partial sale is you
 
TheReligion said:
Because the only person banging on about a partial sale is you
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What exactly does a partial sale achieve? The money goes to the selling shareholders, not the club. So would then require some form of rights issue to put new cash in to the club, open to existing and new shareholders. Not sure that is likely.
 
VP89 said:
I think the Athletic reported they tried this with Apollo Investors in autumn and it didn't fly.
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They (Avram and Joel) reportedly tried to raise the finance to buy out the other siblings, using Apollo. It has long been reported that the other Glazer children are substantially less keen on remaining owners of United than Avram/Joel. It would appear that after the failed partial sale in 2019 and the failed buyout last summer, Avram and Joel have finally been persuaded of the logic of considering a full sale (although a partial sale is seemingly still a possibility and would likely satisfy the internal Glazer family politics, if a suitable investor could be found).
 
Infra-red said:
They (Avram and Joel) reportedly tried to raise the finance to buy out the other siblings, using Apollo. It has long been reported that the other Glazer children are substantially less keen on remaining owners of United than Avram/Joel. It would appear that after the failed partial sale in 2019 and the failed buyout last summer, Avram and Joel have finally been persuaded of the logic of considering a full sale (although a partial sale is seemingly still a possibility and would likely satisfy the internal Glazer family politics, if a suitable investor could be found).
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Thanks. I dont think an investor will fork out such a big sum and want them around to control things.
 
VP89 said:
Thanks. I dont think an investor will fork out such a big sum and want them around to control things.
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The Glazers would certainly have to sacrifice some control. Let's see what happens - we should get an idea about what is/isn't likely in the next couple of months.
 
Infra-red said:
People will generally assign a lower probability to events that they don't want to happen.

Ultimately, only the Glazers themselves will know what outcome is most desirable/acceptable and everything else is speculation. Avram Glazer, when asked about 'the sale' by The Athletic last week in Qatar said, “it's not necessarily a sale, it's a process and we're going forward with the process, so we'll see what happens.”.
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Bingo.

There are plenty of good reasons to be skeptical of a partial sale (ie, who wants to sink £1-2b into a football club and have the Glazers still call the shots). But there are also some pretty good reasons to be skeptical about a full sale (ie, who actually has £6-7b to spend on a football club).

Nothing really happening in the short term and this dragging out over the next year until the Glazers come down on the price seems like a reasonable possibility to me. A lot of people believe Boehly et al overpaid for Chelsea at £2.5b. United is a different level of club in terms of global brand and revenue but £6-7b is a huge number. From a financial perspective, its really hard to make the argument that spending that much on a football club is a good use of money. You could easily buy the club, discover that there isn't much room for asset growth on a percentage basis since the club already has a huge global fanbase that has been heavily commercially exploited, and then you're also losing money every year trying to refurbish the stadium while spending to keep up with two state-owned clubs.
 
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