I would stop supporting United and likely quit this forum too. Sad days.
Club Sale | It’s done!
- Thread starter JB08
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Israel and all. Dodgy stuff all around.
Could definitely be the case.
To expand on my reasoning.
1. If I was a prospective buyer of the entire club, speaking to Avram would be pretty low on my list. Discussions between seller and buyer is common early in the process, is the seller willing to sell, which price would be considered etc. All that is established at this point. There is nothing to discuss between Avram and a buyer, besides the price. But Avram isn’t talking anyone into bidding higher nor is some Sheik talking Avram into lowering their demand. It’s a public takeover. Very little room for reps and warranties, conditional purchase price mechanisms etc.
2. With that said — it’s of course just 100% speculation and not definite evidence of anything. And even if Avram still was trying to find investors rather than a buyer — it’s of course no guarantee that he would be successful.
I definitely hope it’s a complete sale. The fact that Avram is really active in the process could however have a different purpose.
3. Ultimately, I can not really see it being rationale/logical with an investment rather than a complete sale. Owners of Manchester United plc holds shares. Shares gives you economic rights (right to receive dividend) and voting rights. Decisions are taken either with absolute majority (more than 50 percent of the votes) or qualified majority (more than 2/3 of the votes).
The Glazers — by being direct descendent to Malcom — holds shares with 10 votes per share (B shares). If a Glazer sells to a non-Glazer, such share is automatically transformed into an A share with one (1) vote.
Hence, even if you buy out all the siblings and subscribe for additional shares — Joel and Avram would keep all the influence of the club. They can hold only what 16 percent of the shares, and still control every decision.
So one alternative would be for an investor to buy all the siblings shares except A and J and invest in a share issue so that the investor ends up owning up to 84 percent of the shares but have zero influence over the club. Is that worth several billions? I don’t see it.
The other alternative is that Avram and Joel with an investor agree that they will transform their B shares to A shares, which is voluntary. But why would Avram and Joel do that? Then they would be the minority owners with zero influence over the club. The plan with keeping their shares must of course be to get paid more in 10 years time. If they give up all the control — that seems very unlikely. Right?
What you see in these situations are sometimes some kind of option arrangement. One party has the option to buy/sell shares. But I don’t really see the conditions being suitable for that in this situation.
4. The Cayman Islands Companies Act is very majority owner friendly. If Avram and Joel are looking for an investment, that actually hurt them.
Why? Under many jurisdictions a so called “corner” has a value. The corner in this context give the minority owner only a right to “stop” a sale. If you hold a corner in an asset, nobody can get it without going through you. In many jurisdictions, a 10 percent holding of the shares gives you a corner. On the Caymans, you need more than 1/3 of the votes.
However, one alternative could be that Avram and Joel create the same effect through entering into a Shareholders’ Agreement with an investor giving the investor for example a Right of First Refusal if Joel and Avram want to sell. Or influence over certain decisions.
But I can’t get the math to add up for that either. The Glazers own 2/3 of the shares. The 4 children of Malcom besides Avram and Joel owns 4/6 of 2/3s roughly. I.e. about 43 percent of the shares. On a 6bn valuation, buying out the siblings is 2.6bn. In addition, the Club more or less needs a capital contribution of 3bn over 10 years. 1.5bn into the facilities and 1.5bn into the squad (150m per year over 10 years).
It’s too much money. The other siblings might be satisfied only selling of parts of their holdings. But no matter how you slice it or dice it — it’s a heck of a lot of money for only parts of the club. Someone willing to invest 2bn into the club to get it back on top and to have an option to buy the whole thing down the road — could perhaps be found. But 3-4bn? Don’t see it.
-> To summarize, like I have said before, I don't really see the conditions being present for a partial sale/investment scenario. At the same time, we know that A and J recently tried to find just that. So they obviously believed that it could be possible recently. I just get a little nervous about talks of Avram travelling across the globe to meet investors and sneezing to journalists that a complete sale isn't a given.
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Haaland
Nope
So something good would come of it at least
Come on state bastards and bring Mbappe
Unnecessary
I cannot see that happening
Come on Qatar buy Utd and bring a few world stars with you.
That referee today for the world cup must have gotten some money in his envelope. Maybe he could buy us
Qatar to follow the explosive final with a purchase of Manchester United and the transfer of Mbappe?
It’s written
Elon Musk and Avram dining together in Qatar tonight?!
This is never happening, but it would be by far the worst possible outcome
Well, he did make that joke all the way back in summer...
I almost want it to happen just to see what would happen. Almost.We are going to lose some more of the fanbase to FC United of Manchester if this type of ownership became reality
IMO we might lose a few thousand but if we become successful again we'll gain a hell of a lot more than we lose.
I personally don't want a Saudi or Qatar owner but if they become our owners so be it. United is a lot more than it's owners.
Is there a fan who really left? I doubt it
Time for this thread to start really taking off now that the WC is done
Hopefully some more leaks come from Avi whoring himself to billionaires
Hopefully some more leaks come from Avi whoring himself to billionaires
What aspect of the World cup do you think was putting a halt on it?
The owners being involved in Qatar? Or just wanting to watch the footy?
Journalists have probably been pretty busyWhat aspect of the World cup do you think was putting a halt on it?
The owners being involved in Qatar? Or just wanting to watch the footy?
Media need stories. When the WC is on that’s a running story. Now it’s done, the next big story is Manchester UnitedWhat aspect of the World cup do you think was putting a halt on it?
The owners being involved in Qatar? Or just wanting to watch the footy?
Q1 2023 seems a bit too soon, I thought this would drag out for the rest of this season.
Ah, I thought he meant the deal would start progressing, rather than just a bunch of journos chatting about it more.
Saudis or Qataris... It makes me sick that football has come to the point where success is based on who can swing the bigger financial dick. I don't even care about the politics, but it just ruins my enjoyment of football. Something needs to be done about this. Why can't UEFA employ the American system of the draft and wage cap?
Finding out more info could be big news. Nobody knows where the progress is. Even the Athletic piece was 99% speculative. Behind the scenes things could be a lot closer than we think, especially if the Glazers genuinely expect to sell by the end of March
Let's hope so.
Cautiously.
When it turns out we're selling it to a horrible mix of the Glazers and Kroenke, and we are actually limited to spending 20m a season net, we'll all be in pieces.
Of course there is, have you ever been to an FCUoM match? There's still hundreds of regulars there who haven't stepped foot in OT in 17 years. The guy and his son who sat behind me for 3 years in the North Stand in 2003~ ish still has a season ticket there and I don't think he's even watched a United game in the pub in that time.
It's not exactly a new concept.
Doesn't Q1 start in April? People seem to assume it's the calendar year but surely it's the financial year that they're referring to.
I see this mentioned from time to time, but what about the negatives from that system? Mainly tanking (ugh) for draft picks, luxury tax to bypass a hard wage cap, moving clubs to different cities and markets, no relegation (effectively ESL) etc. Agree on your opening line, but the American model is hardly the one to copy to bring the game back to its roots.
Yeah, now that would be more realistic.
All of you lot twerking for the oil daddies are like the mustache twizzling lawful evil characters in computer game RPGS. the whole thing becomes hollow if our success results in this malevolent sports washing which has poisoned our game. It's just not the same feeling anymore if we win things while owned by this shower. It was bad enough (and almost completely untenable) under the glazers but at least they were just parasites leaching off the club. If it's this lot taking over it's a helm steer into the nadir. Have a word, can you imagine busby's United advocating for this. The flowers of Manchester are turned to dust in the desert.
I hate that as I grow old everything I loved and cherished is being tainted and ground under the wheels of capitalism. What would Cantona think of this?
With Neville and Beckham doing the holiday tour video for qatar, Giggs being a total scumbag and scholesy sucking on toes it's like he's the only shining light left at this club.
I hate that as I grow old everything I loved and cherished is being tainted and ground under the wheels of capitalism. What would Cantona think of this?
With Neville and Beckham doing the holiday tour video for qatar, Giggs being a total scumbag and scholesy sucking on toes it's like he's the only shining light left at this club.
If it makes you feel any better I doubt the club would be guaranteed to win trophies consistently with a sugar daddy. The club would still have to be well run given the level of competition already existing.
Not that deep mate.
Yes but it was.
Why do you support a club?
Why do you support a club?
Well said that man. I’m with you. Some of the comment on here welcoming state ownership, even in jest, are nothing short of disgraceful.
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