Club ownership | Senior management team talk

Fortitude said:
For what it's worth, your effort is appreciated and the descent into despair is clear with just a glimpse of your compiled data.

I've removed Rooney from the 2017. Of course you have the power to edit your own post, but I have a sense you won't out of protest for a perceived slight?

Anyway, if people weren't losing their minds on here, there'd most likely be more acknowledgement of the post.
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Thanks for the edit - I can see it came across that way, but petulance wasn't the motivation. :lol: I think it's a futile exercise on the caf.

Let's say I remove Rooney from that list.

Then someone else will come by to say, "Why do you have Martial in there for 21/22? He made one PL start for us and was shipped off to Sevilla." - I'll do the research, realize that's true and make the edit.

Then someone else will come by to say, "This is a biased representation, we've shifted to a system where our goals come from wide forwards and number 10s - Sancho had as many PL goals as Martial in 22/23, and Bruno was our second highest PL goalscorer in 21/22 after Ronaldo - but you've not added either there." I'll have to clarify that this list is only for center forwards by role, and make the edit in my post with the same disclaimer.

Then someone else will come by to say, "If you're counting forwards, you're ignoring that Bruno, Mata, and Lingard have all played and scored as a false 9 for us. Also, where's James Wilson, he had a PL goal for us in 2014/15"?

And I'll go back again, and make the edit - when does this end?

The solution is to let nitpickers nitpick - and if anyone is genuinely interacting with the post, they'll get the point. Our senior leadership and recruitment has been grossly negligent of our front line over the years, and is more responsible for our lack of threat now than Ole or EtH or Amorim or any of the players out there on the pitch.
 
Gandalf Greyhame said:
Thanks for the edit - I can see it came across that way, but petulance wasn't the motivation. :lol: I think it's a futile exercise on the caf.

Let's say I remove Rooney from that list.

Then someone else will come by to say, "Why do you have Martial in there for 21/22? He made one PL start for us and was shipped off to Sevilla." - I'll do the research, realize that's true and make the edit.

Then someone else will come by to say, "This is a biased representation, we've shifted to a system where our goals come from wide forwards and number 10s - Sancho had as many PL goals as Martial in 22/23, and Bruno was our second highest PL goalscorer in 21/22 after Ronaldo - but you've not added either there." I'll have to clarify that this list is only for center forwards by role, and make the edit in my post with the same disclaimer.

Then someone else will come by to say, "If you're counting forwards, you're ignoring that Bruno, Mata, and Lingard have all played and scored as a false 9 for us. Also, where's James Wilson, he had a PL goal for us in 2014/15"?

And I'll go back again, and make the edit - when does this end?

The solution is to let nitpickers nitpick - and if anyone is genuinely interacting with the post, they'll get the point. Our senior leadership and recruitment has been grossly negligent of our front line over the years, and is more responsible for our lack of threat now than Ole or EtH or Amorim or any of the players out there on the pitch.
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If anything it adds to your point that the likes of Bruno and Lingard where "forced" to play false 9 for us because of the lack of options.
 
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It's been an absolutely digusting start to their tenure - i am not just talking about on the field, but off the field choices they have made have been diabolical.

I fully expect some PR fluff in coming days about a 100k shiny new stadium to distract us.
 
AndrewMac said:
It's been an absolutely digusting start to their tenure - i am not just talking about on the field, but off the field choices they have made have been diabolical.

I fully expect some PR fluff in coming days about a 100k shiny new stadium to distract us.
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They're making cuts due to the utter mess our finances have been left in by the previous executive team. The fact you that referred to a stadium that will cost over £2bn and generate £7.5bn for the UK economy as a shiny distraction says it all.
 
Lyng said:
https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/5418974/2024/04/18/nice-ineos-jim-ratcliffe-decline/
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Did you read that article? They sold Todibo, Thuram is out of form and their best signing can’t get any rhythm because he keeps getting suspended.

But there isn’t any strong anti-INEOS sentiment. That has been the case even when Nice were at their lowest point last season. They finished ninth. There’s a little bit of questioning about what the future holds, but nothing close to a protest.
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Plant0x84 said:
Did you read that article? They sold Todibo, Thuram is out of form and their best signing can’t get any rhythm because he keeps getting suspended.
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I did, the reason they mention nothing close to a protest is because they already protested once. There have been several times they have been very vocal about their issues with Ineos. This season started much better but, as the article clearly shows its been downhill for a few months now.
 
The symbolic death of the Glazers, and Ineos, and Rashford, and make United Great Again. We do do what we want.

Qatar is just money. If money was the way out, we'd have escaped long ago.

They'd hire 'the best in show' and a top-rated coach to play the modern way, with more and more money.

No reason to believe they'd improve us anymore than using dynamite on a blimp.
 
Gandalf Greyhame said:
:lol:

I used to make a lot of well-researched posts on here in the earlier days - consume data and get a story through. I'd stopped because most of them had reactions like this - a pedantic pick at something completely inconsequential to the point being made, and often due to something out of my control. Very few posters had the intent or the attention span to engage with the whole narrative. Your response is a funny throwback.

You're not wrong, of course - Rooney did leave in July 2017. It has nothing to do with the point of the post - which is that the quality of our forwards has taken a dive off a cliff - but it is not wrong. I included Rooney there because I used transfermarkt, went through each squad for the last decade, looked at the CFs, and added them here. The 2017/18 squad had Rooney listed in it, so he ended up on the list. The list has other shortcomings, too - Rashford was not listed as a CF on the website, I've not included the likes of James Wilson or Angelo Henriquez - someone else will come along to point that out, I suppose.

I used to go ahead and make edits and corrections - then stopped bothering. Don't think I'll bother now, either - Onana's howler and the club in general has broken me and turned me to the dark side.
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yeah, I know. I’m a very pedantic person.

Ultimately, the way the club has been run for the past 20 years has been absolutely horrendous. It’d be harder to deliberately run a club worse. And I can’t see when it’s going to get better or where any improvement will come from.
 
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KStandBarmyArmy1993 said:
The whole thing is broken.
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This is pure battle between players and management of who is doing more stupid thing. Incompetence of club to not react on situation and be prepared to help season ticket holders to not force them use phone + app is horrible.
We are the biggest sport embarassement of last 10 years
 
KStandBarmyArmy1993 said:
The whole thing is broken.

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I think we need more info on this. Not sure I believe the bit about stewards just letting him in with a paper ticket, they're very strict about that. I've never seen the stewards let someone in with ticket issue they always get turned away to the ticket office.
 
Rooney1987 said:
I think we need more info on this. Not sure I believe the bit about stewards just letting him in with a paper ticket, they're very strict about that. I've never seen the stewards let someone in with ticket issue they always get turned away to the ticket office.
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I agree, I'm always skeptical about a screenshot of a written message. I could write a message to someone saying I saw aliens land at Old Trafford. Holds the same amount of weight as the above image to me.
 
Devil_forever said:
They're making cuts due to the utter mess our finances have been left in by the previous executive team. The fact you that referred to a stadium that will cost over £2bn and generate £7.5bn for the UK economy as a shiny distraction says it all.
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Over what period of time are you attributing this 7.5 billion to the UK economy? Are you just counting attendance and then looking over a 30 year period?

You could literally apply that to any club then. What if Madrid or Barcelona build a 200,000 seater stadium, What if Arsenal built a 100,000 stadium?

What credit does Jim and co take for a bigger stadium equals more money in a long term.
 
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It’s absolutely inevitable that we’ll squander a load of money that we can’t afford to make 343 work (while selling talented young players who don’t “fit the system”) only to eventually replace Amorim with someone who doesn’t play 343 and have to start all over again.

Maybe Ineos are visionaries who have somehow predicted this system is the one which will dominate world football and we need to mortgage our future against it… or is it actually just far more likely they haven’t a clue and are making it up as they go along? Especially given they renewed the contract of a man who played totally different football just months before.

What is most unnerving is some of our fans absolute insistence on betting the house on it, when you can guarantee most if not all of them had never suggested we switch to 343 before Amorim became manager.

The Garnacho / Mainoo situation has brought the situation sharply into focus - I’m not suggesting either of them will definitely be top players but they’ve show enough so far to be given more time to develop here. Instead some fans (and our owners it seems) want to flog them because they don’t fit a system that we’ll almost certainly sack off within the next two years.
 
sugar_kane said:
It’s absolutely inevitable that we’ll squander a load of money that we can’t afford to make 343 work (while selling talented young players who don’t “fit the system”) only to eventually replace Amorim with someone who doesn’t play 343 and have to start all over again.

Maybe Ineos are visionaries who have somehow predicted this system is the one which will dominate world football and we need to mortgage our future against it… or is it actually just far more likely they haven’t a clue and are making it up as they go along? Especially given they renewed the contract of a man who played totally different football just months before.

What is most unnerving is some of our fans absolute insistence on betting the house on it, when you can guarantee most if not all of them had never suggested we switch to 343 before Amorim became manager.

The Garnacho / Mainoo situation has brought the situation sharply into focus - I’m not suggesting either of them will definitely be top players but they’ve show enough so far to be given more time to develop here. Instead some fans (and our owners it seems) want to flog them because they don’t fit a system that we’ll almost certainly sack off within the next two years.
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We need to raise money and selling those two is our only hope of actually raising any. No chance we will be getting fees for Casemiro/Rashford in this window
 
sugar_kane said:
It’s absolutely inevitable that we’ll squander a load of money that we can’t afford to make 343 work (while selling talented young players who don’t “fit the system”) only to eventually replace Amorim with someone who doesn’t play 343 and have to start all over again.

Maybe Ineos are visionaries who have somehow predicted this system is the one which will dominate world football and we need to mortgage our future against it… or is it actually just far more likely they haven’t a clue and are making it up as they go along? Especially given they renewed the contract of a man who played totally different football just months before.

What is most unnerving is some of our fans absolute insistence on betting the house on it, when you can guarantee most if not all of them had never suggested we switch to 343 before Amorim became manager.

The Garnacho / Mainoo situation has brought the situation sharply into focus - I’m not suggesting either of them will definitely be top players but they’ve show enough so far to be given more time to develop here. Instead some fans (and our owners it seems) want to flog them because they don’t fit a system that we’ll almost certainly sack off within the next two years.
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Let's forget for a moment that Amorim took us over. We still need to sell one of our academy prospect to get a PSR profit. We still need a left back , winger ,a midfielder and a forward .

Its actually the need of the hour rather than us buying something for 343. That's how I see it.
 
bond19821982 said:
Let's forget for a moment that Amorim took us over. We still need to sell one of our academy prospect to get a PSR profit. We still need a left back , winger ,a midfielder and a forward .

Its actually the need of the hour rather than us buying something for 343. That's how I see it.
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So if we can only get two of those now then which ones would you give the highest priority
 
sugar_kane said:
It’s absolutely inevitable that we’ll squander a load of money that we can’t afford to make 343 work (while selling talented young players who don’t “fit the system”) only to eventually replace Amorim with someone who doesn’t play 343 and have to start all over again.

Maybe Ineos are visionaries who have somehow predicted this system is the one which will dominate world football and we need to mortgage our future against it… or is it actually just far more likely they haven’t a clue and are making it up as they go along? Especially given they renewed the contract of a man who played totally different football just months before.

What is most unnerving is some of our fans absolute insistence on betting the house on it, when you can guarantee most if not all of them had never suggested we switch to 343 before Amorim became manager.

The Garnacho / Mainoo situation has brought the situation sharply into focus - I’m not suggesting either of them will definitely be top players but they’ve show enough so far to be given more time to develop here. Instead some fans (and our owners it seems) want to flog them because they don’t fit a system that we’ll almost certainly sack off within the next two years.
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This is my concern, especially with Mainoo.

Selling either one of them (or both) would be an appalling decision. Probably up there with the worst the club has made since 2013.
 
As others have said, what we’re seeing isn’t a departure from how we operated with the Glazers in control. We’ve sacked a manager mid-season, and brought in a guy that can’t work well with the few good players in the squad. Manchester United don’t build from manager to manager, nothing develops because we completely change what we want to be as a team every two years. Rangnick said it himself, United need an identity, are we really convinced that if we sack Amorim we will sign another manager that wants to use wing-backs? I’m not convinced. When you get to the point that young talented players like Garnacho and Mainoo are being touted around Europe to fund players to suit a system that essentially means playing a five back with defensive midfielders at Old Trafford, then I find it very difficult to be convinced that we’ve made the right decision. I think Amorim is a talented manager, I don’t think we should be ripping up the few good bits of the squad for him though, especially when we’re being told there is no money to rebuild with, it’s a paradoxical approach.
 
Dec9003 said:
As others have said, what we’re seeing isn’t a departure from how we operated with the Glazers in control. We’ve sacked a manager mid-season, and brought in a guy that can’t work well with the few good players in the squad. Manchester United don’t build from manager to manager, nothing develops because we completely change what we want to be as a team every two years. Rangnick said it himself, United need an identity, are we really convinced that if we sack Amorim we will sign another manager that wants to use wing-backs? I’m not convinced. When you get to the point that young talented players like Garnacho and Mainoo are being touted around Europe to fund players to suit a system that essentially means playing a five back with defensive midfielders at Old Trafford, then I find it very difficult to be convinced that we’ve made the right decision. I think Amorim is a talented manager, I don’t think we should be ripping up the few good bits of the squad for him though, especially when we’re being told there is no money to rebuild with, it’s a paradoxical approach.
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Odd claim as the few good players in the squad to me are the only ones performing right now, Ugarte, Amad, Bruno.

Garnacho and Mainoo were playing terrible football prior to the manager coming in so trying to pin their lack of performance on him is ridiculous. Over time you'd expect him to make use of them but he's not going to instantly turn their form around.
 
RoyH1 said:
Have Dortmund not been paying attention to his tenure at United?
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Considering that Dortmund is just as mismanaged as United in the past few years, the answer is: Probably not.

The more realistic answer however is that Matthias Sammer (now working as a "board consultant" for Dortmund or whatever his exact job title is) was ten Hag's boss at Bayern and apparently rates him because of that.
 
On the field we’re performing worse than ever, hired a manager with a clear system and plan yet failed to back him. Apparently the whole squad is for sale that will see one of our top young players possibly move to a rival club.

Off the field they’ve raised ticket prices, made hundreds of people redundant, hired and fired a DoF in Ashworth and extended ETH’s contract before firing him

It’s been nothing short of a complete disaster. I was hopeful when we hired ‘real’ sporting people to much needed positions but we seem to be moving backwards
 
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