If the interim is a flop, you sack him and hire another interim coach.
It's an approach that works for literally every other club in world football. I don't know why we have to overcomplicate things.
Club ownership | Senior management team talk
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It's an approach that works for literally every other club in world football. I don't know why we have to overcomplicate things.
Perpetual mediocrity may not be the end of days, but it would be disappointing to know that a club of United’s stature can longer be a forced to be reckoned with alongside Liverpool, Real and Barcelona. What each of us makes of that reality varies, and I personally will get along just fine, but the descent into perpetual mediocrity would he hard to exposing to future generations of football fans who would rightly ask why the owners of this great football club allowed this to happen.
This is an important distinction that gets lost sometimes.
There was a clamour for Conte when Ole was sacked but given his stint at Spurs and subsequently he would have been a disaster here. If are building long term then a manager who is only going to stay 2/3 years before a meltdown isn’t the right way to go. I think this is why Tuchel didn’t work out too.
When the hell have we been knee jerk with firing managers? The only one close to that is Ole.
Moyes, LVG, Rangnick and Mourinho all deserved the sack. Ole could have been given more time but it looked like he'd lost the players so that was fair.
The club has had various different structures. That is not true to say there was none.
The problem was the Glazers and them needing to be involved in every decision. It bottlenecked stuff and they also made poor decisions.
The Glazers only ever made decisions based on how it would affect their ability to make money. That’s why managers were sacked when CL qualification was under threat. Not for any sense of higher standards or ambition. They didn’t care about the football and had no desire to take United back to the top. I think Ineos’ vision is to try and do that but they have had a dreadful start.
They also didn’t give Ten Hag a new contract, they activated an option of a plus 1 on his current deal. Small mercies…
Sounds like we’re pretty much in agreement here. I lost all enthusiasm for this ‘project’ the moment they botched the manager decision in the summer. His performance over the last 18 months is indefensible and it’s trending in the wrong direction.
It certainly hasn’t been a modern footballing structure for a very long time - if ever. Sir Alex and Gill were largely effective and successful but it was a pretty old school set up even back then to have the manager in complete control.
Glazers in? Come back Ed, all is forgiven?!
After the FA Cup, i said that this would be a decision that would hurt them moving forward and it has. No matter how much work is done off the pitch, if your on the pitch performance is poor, it doesn't matter. The blame the Glazers received about the failures of the club on the pitch were always unwarranted for this very reason. Yes, they were horrible in hiring Woodward and did not put in place the right structures to take some of the pressures off the manager, but the fact remains that it was always their failure in letting Woodward hire the wrong manager and then take too long to sack that manager that was always the core issue.
Our problems with the Glazers were very simple. We hired poor performing managers who usually had too large of an ego to accept accountability, in a position that gave them more power in recruitment and squad management that allowed them to decimate the squads we had and produce consistently average to poor football.
Our problems with the Glazers were very simple. We hired poor performing managers who usually had too large of an ego to accept accountability, in a position that gave them more power in recruitment and squad management that allowed them to decimate the squads we had and produce consistently average to poor football.
You can talk about structures all you want but in the end what happens on the pitch mainly comes down to the quality of player recruitment and ours has been terrible for years and rock bottom under Ten Hag.
That's one of the issues and not even the main one. They spent large amounts on average players and gifted them elite player contracts and kept renewing them (or upgrading them) to chase their losses. That's the unhealthy entitlement culture of mediocrity and zero player accountability. And that is what we are very slowly emerging from.
That's exactly what failures say. They need more time. "Give me more time".
When Pep arrived in the EPL, he didn't do great, but he didn't fail.
When Klopp arrived in the EPL, he got to grips with things fairly quickly.
This idea that if a new manager or senior management arrives, that it takes many years to succeed is nonsense.
Winners make instant impact and make quick changes.
I'll put it this way.
If we were taken over by Middle Eastern owners. Do you think a manager that finished in 8th would still be at the club?
Even I who am no expert knew that there was ZERO upside in keeping ETH in the summer by this team and I'm seriously wondering why they chose to keep him. Last season already exposed his level and even if he managed to turn around the performance of the team, it's perfectly clear that he is not a title winning manager. The best move would have been to bring in a fresh face to mark a new beginning and let ETH go with his FA Cup win and his reputation a little repaired after an abysmal season of football. How they managed to botch such an easy situation betrays a lack of ruthlessness that is severally needed. Woody was a terrible director but even he would have let ETH go a long time ago.
Depends, if they took over at the same time ineos did, then yea probably.
Maybe not but we would almost certainly be a far bigger shitshow than we are currently, and we would be soulless to boot.
That's a fair point that I hadn't considered. Thanks for that.
Are you fecking serious? That's the thing they've fecked up the most!
Well yeah, fair enough...
It's ultimately why the people running the club won't just turn everything around within a season. Its not even November yet ffs and people think the "new regime" has failed.
Do u want picking up in the morning pal
That's utterly embarrassing. What were they thinking. I get it if it was a flight returning from international break, as its common for all Brazilians to be on a single flight coming back in the UK, but this?
Sorry for trying to save the environment GUYS
Yeah they didn’t do that. The activated a clause and took some responsibilities from him.
UTTERLY EMBARRASSING
Yeah, we are known for that. Just like our part time owner flying private for games, and jetting off to Monaco every weekend.
The club is skint. That's why they haven't sacked him.
*its not
We would not have signed all the players we signed if this was the case.
Yeah it’s not ‘skint’ in the slightest. Some far smarter people have posted details online regarding our finances and there’s no major issues that would prevent us terminating Ten Hag.
What the club is doing though, is looking to make smarter decisions and restrict losses. Something which has been much needed.
Exactly. Imagine how many air miles he’d have racked up if he was full time. They’re always thinking, the lads.
They didn’t take any responsibilities from him, his contract is just as it was except a year longer.
There was no need to trigger that clause at all, last season should have instilled enough doubts in his ability to be successful here for him not to be rewarded with an extra year. We should have just let him go into this season as if it was his last one, and it would be on him to prove that he’s worthy of a longer deal.
If anything it feels like they wanted to give him a much longer deal, hence the initial communication said we were going to work with the coach on an extension. He however wasn’t willing to agree to let the veto go (which has been reported by some sources) and would not have been fine with other changes in the contract, leaving them with only one option.
The whole thing was a massive mess. I actually expect them to give him a proper extension in the next 3-4 months.
Ineos have fallen into the same trap as the Glazers and precious executives have. We need to stop looking the managerial position as this sacred thing that’s so painful to alter. Teams change managers every 2-3 barring complete misfire. It’s fine, like player, you have to move on rather than hold on to under performance.
They won’t be extending him.
Absolutely. Same with players.
Relatively speaking we are. Net spend of less than £100m and high earners leaving on frees is a lot lower than where we used to be.
At then there's the £250m+ losses over the last 3 years.
Well there is a happy medium between getting to the top and being in 12th spot.
You don't activate the extension clause of a manager who is viewed as an interim. It will now be far more expensive if they choose to sack the manager, and we're in a much weaker position than we would've been if we sacked him in the days following the FA Cup final.
The dirge of last season has carried through into this one and most of the viable candidates to replace him in the summer are no longer available. Not to mention that we've lost the opportunity of pre-season to give a new coach time to embed their ideas into the players. It was a miserable decision all round and the longer we keep him in post, the more we're going to pay for it.
Most teams have a competent structure above the manager to maintain continuity that we are still in the process of building. On the face of it Ashworth, Wilcox, Berrada et al seem like the right hires to solve this, but they aren’t ‘instant gimmes’ by any stretch. They need time to work and establish themselves and their ways.
I think historically changing the manager for United HAS been that traumatic - because they have been the figurehead the whole club looks to, and especially because we have gone from manager to manager without considering what style and identity we want as a club.