Here's a 2022 article from the Tampa Bay newspaper. This is how the Glazers are seen there. My question has been for a long time, have those leeches been using United to subsidize the Bucs? https://www.tampabay.com/sports/buc...ester-united-glazers-glazer-family-tampa-bay/
Club ownership | Senior management team talk
- Thread starter golden_blunder
- Start date
Amorim in the summer was the right call. Before we went big on another set of signings.
Bringing him in mid season, to a new league, with just one signing was really asking unreal levels of optimism.
They mostly hated the Glazers before their team won the Super Bowl in 2021
Come again? What 100m in December? And a huge chunk of our summer spend would have been already allotted pre Ineos.
They're basically structuring the renovation of OT as a public project, making huge cuts around the club and the first window they had full control of they did absolutely nothing. But fair dos, they quickly sacked people they themselves hired. Top stuff.
I mean even getting to top 4 in future if we don't get there we are going to be a mid table or bottom half team for a while
Even if we'd hired him in the summer the squad would still have needed vast retooling, which was probably not possible under PSR. Especially with the likes of Casemiro making it clear that they will not leave for any option they don't like.
The profiles in this squad simply don't suit Amorim's style. Its not just playing 3-4-3. Conte plays 3-4-3 and he probably could've done more with the players we have. Its more how Amorim wants to play.
This was true before we signed any of Ugarte, Yoro, Zirkzee, Mazroaui or De Ligt. Even if you switch up that list and bring in another powerful centre midfielder, a more ball playing centre back, a proper wingback, maybe an athletic and versatile #10 and another striker, you'd probably get better results but not massively. The squad would still be lopsided and an injury to any of those players would leave you relying on ball progression from the likes of Maguire and Lindelof, which we know is a fool's hope.
We should have only gone for Amorim in a situation where we had no PSR issues and could freely replace like 10 players.
Amorim isn’t blameless in all of this though. Clearly the appointment was made at the wrong time, but it’s quite obvious he’s not the right man either. Another 4 or 5 players won’t make us much better.
The appointment should have been a more traditional manager tactically for the league. Poor decision by Barreda but even worse from Amorim in my eyes.
That's what I thought too but that puff piece paints them in a different light. Even so, are we subsidizing them? Is money taken from this club being used to fund Tampa Bay? That question hasn't been answered as far as I know.
The bucs are far, far more profitable than us. They'd get rid of us 5x over before they'd even think about selling the Bucs
He could have said no. He must have had some inkling of the state of the club. He got thrown in at the deep end and asked to swim with one hand tied behind his back.
It's not quite obvious he's not the right man.
He's been thrown in mid season with a squad that is horrifically suited to him, no real quality attacking options, they then let 2 attackers go, while not replacing them,
On top of that he's lost his best attacker for the rest of the season our most composed Midfielder and our best ball playing CB. Add on to that his keeper keeps chucking it in every 3 games.
Add to the fact we have no money. The only thing obvious is he's been thrown into a shitshow.
Whoever thought getting rid of Rashford, Antony in January without getting anyone into replace them should be sacked. Hung the manager out to dry.
Failed to change his swim stroke though. When you’re drowning, you try something else maybe. We need to stop giving him a free pass because he’s been an horrendous appointment so far.
We're just fecked.
This is so weird in hindsight. The new football structure arrives and knows that A) they will be judged mostly by the first big decisions they make, B) the club has no money, C) the squad is failing and 80-90% of the players are unsellable, and D) there's need of a new manager.
Then why do they go for a new coach with a footballing approach so different from the previous one that he'll need to replace lots of players? And why do they hire him mid season when he explicitely says that he would have prefered to start next season when you already have a decent caretaker manager in place?
These are the questions that everyone should be asking and which I'd love to hear Jason Wilcox, Omar Berrada, Dave Brailsford or Sir Jim speak about.
I’ve heard similar rumours. They’ve made lots of money from the club, none of which has been reinvested back into United.
Think about all the restructuring of the debt. When they initially sold none voting shares back on the stock exchange, then the $1b plus they got from Ratcliffe. Who knows what they did with all the dividends they took from United.
But at the same time, I know they got funding for the Bucaneers stadium by pressuring the local authorities and threatening to change locations. So it’s hard to guesstimate how much of United money has gone to the Bucaneers.
You have to wonder why they hired a manager that plays a system this squad isn’t cut out for and further can’t really back him due to the finances it seems like yet another farce we’ve inherited.
Ashworth could see this coming a mile away and got the feck out, the place is a bigger shambles now than it’s ever been.
These lot have failed every time they’ve touched a sporting team I knew it would be a failure from day 1
Ashworth could see this coming a mile away and got the feck out, the place is a bigger shambles now than it’s ever been.
These lot have failed every time they’ve touched a sporting team I knew it would be a failure from day 1
I gave them a fair crack. But now more and more it’s obvious they are just the Glazers henchmen who have the support of most fans to plunder the club to ruin.
Yep, entirely predictable.
Saw it coming a mile off and was no surprise they failed to make the manager change when it should have been made. They wanted the people in to hide behind if the next one went wrong, so didn't want to sack Ten Hag until Amorim + Berrada were in the door.
Then they left the decision to those 2 and they fundamentally disagreed on how to move forward, because Ineos didnt do due diligence on finding a CEO and Sporting director with aligned philosophies. Ashworth wanted some pragmatic English manager (would have been even worse). Berrada hired a coach married to a new system but should have known it would be difficult to emulate without massive spending.
Now we can predict exactly what will happen next: either Amorim turns it around himself by early next season, or we'll have another manager sacked mid season, blame will all be pinned on Berrada just as Ineos planned, and then if the next manager fails as well, they'll replace Berrada and pin it all on him again.
Impossible for Ineos Sport to make good decisions when they're so spineless and conscious of avoiding blame and scrutiny.
Last edited:
Hey, we have been told repeatedly ‘Joel loves the club’ - nobody ever said which one.
Amorim either last summer or the upcoming summer would have been a sensible call from a choosing a manager perspective. However, that doesn't mean that he would have been successful. Its likely he and Ineos would have still gotten Ugarte (which would have made even more sense seeing as he played for Amroim), Yoro as well, lets say he also got Dorgu and another player. We would have still kept Rashford. Based on what he's shown so far this season after 4 months its just as likely that he would have failed as he would have succeded. It just would have saved us more money and maybe have us in a position to be able to potentially sack him if he performed throughout the whole season as he has in this 4 months. As it stands, the decision to not make the change last summer or not extend Erik but make the change in the coming summer has tied our hands financially.
Part of the purchase was an agreement that £230 million of Ineos money was invested into the infrastructure. We received the last part of this in December. This isn’t transfers, this is just cash going into the club. Unfortunately it’s mostly going to be eaten up by the losses the club is making, which highlights the need to strip back spending. It’s also the max Ineos can put in to off set losses for PSR purposes. Make no mistake, the club was fecked without that, and it’s likely the only reason the Glazers gave away part of the club.
You’re very naive if you think that Amorim wasn’t fully aware of this from the start. He said in press conferences from the beginning that we would have to sell to buy, I’m not sure why people didn’t believe him. It’s also not like he was playing them at all. We could have had them sit on the bench all year, or bought in Dorgu instead.
They would likely argue that the players/approach they currently used was never going to get them where the club needed to be. I’m 100% sure they didn’t in-vision things being this bad though.
Regardless of what formation we play, most of these players aren’t good enough. People are crying about the fact we need to buy wing backs, despite most fans constantly shitting on Luke Shaw and Dalot, so who really cares if we buy some young wing backs. Same goes for Rashford, Antony, Sancho etc.
I’ll give you an example, Robinson at Fulham. He’s played at wing back and full back under Marco Silva. Same with Kerkez at Bournemouth. Amorim will be targeting young, flexible, athletic players, who can play in multiple positions. We’re not going to be in a position where suddenly we’re back to square one if we change manager.
The management has made countless stupid decisions that its difficult to start. But i will try to name a few below:
1) Hiring Ashworth and then sacking him costing 10M to the club.
2) Extending Ten Haag contract letting him sign players worth 150M
3) Sacking Ten Haag and his staff costing the club another 10 - 15M
4) Getting Amorim in mid season knowing his obsession with the 3-4-3 formation and knowing we neither have the players nor the finances to support him midseason
5) Letting Rashford and Antony go without signings any players (players like Asensio and Tel were available on loan).
6) Generating negative publicity for the club by making unpopular decisions when in reality the actual monetary gain is very immaterial, specially when their feckups have costed 5 times the amount.
If we had signed Asensio and Tel for example, In attacking we would not be relying on Garnacho or Holjlund or Obi. We would have had a higher chance to win the Fa cup or Europa and our league position would have improved, all would have amounted to significant gains (apparently every spot we finish higher will amount to a few millions, plus the higher you go into competitions bring windfall) then whatever they have saved without these few signings. Looks like even from financial aspect we have fecked up big time.
1) Hiring Ashworth and then sacking him costing 10M to the club.
2) Extending Ten Haag contract letting him sign players worth 150M
3) Sacking Ten Haag and his staff costing the club another 10 - 15M
4) Getting Amorim in mid season knowing his obsession with the 3-4-3 formation and knowing we neither have the players nor the finances to support him midseason
5) Letting Rashford and Antony go without signings any players (players like Asensio and Tel were available on loan).
6) Generating negative publicity for the club by making unpopular decisions when in reality the actual monetary gain is very immaterial, specially when their feckups have costed 5 times the amount.
If we had signed Asensio and Tel for example, In attacking we would not be relying on Garnacho or Holjlund or Obi. We would have had a higher chance to win the Fa cup or Europa and our league position would have improved, all would have amounted to significant gains (apparently every spot we finish higher will amount to a few millions, plus the higher you go into competitions bring windfall) then whatever they have saved without these few signings. Looks like even from financial aspect we have fecked up big time.
I don’t see a way out of this mess
A decade of this crap more at the very least.
Honestly wouldn’t be surprised if I die of old age before we win the league.
A decade of this crap more at the very least.
Honestly wouldn’t be surprised if I die of old age before we win the league.
I’m slowly starting to think this as well. Not one player has improved and they look like they have had one week of training together. They can’t find the way forward in a lot of the time on the pitch. They struggle to put more than 4/5 forward passes together and feel more comfortable back passing. This was TH ball.
I hope he gets a pre season and a few out and better players in, but I am worried it might be the same.
It’s an utter shambles.
If he was the "right call" someone else would have signed him in the summer. They didn't, they all turned away from him.
I would have preferred we went for a manager who played a back 4 anyhow but getting amorim in the summer would have made a lot more sense. The other big error is that we appear unwilling to back him with significant funds despite it being clear he would require this
I'd love to know what the endgame is for the Glazers and by extension INEOS.
We saw from 2009 that when we are on top, they don't have the appetite to invest to keep us there. They were happy to take dividends and management fees whilst the club declined and needed investment.
IF things improve slightly, I can't see a world where we extend beyond being a club that can challenge for top 4. Even if we achieve that, i get the impression that will satisfy the ownership and they will focus on their dividends.
Am I missing the bigger picture here? Where is the light at the end of the tunnel.
I have never been one to believe we are entitled as fans to be challenging year in, year out. But I miss the days where it was about sport, and clubs wouldn't be held back by owners.
We saw from 2009 that when we are on top, they don't have the appetite to invest to keep us there. They were happy to take dividends and management fees whilst the club declined and needed investment.
IF things improve slightly, I can't see a world where we extend beyond being a club that can challenge for top 4. Even if we achieve that, i get the impression that will satisfy the ownership and they will focus on their dividends.
Am I missing the bigger picture here? Where is the light at the end of the tunnel.
I have never been one to believe we are entitled as fans to be challenging year in, year out. But I miss the days where it was about sport, and clubs wouldn't be held back by owners.
They supposedly had no interest in Amorim in the summer. Which begs the question why bring him in mid season with no money available for transfers?
Avram has zero shares in the Bucks. He has to stick with Manchester United, its his only leverage against huge debts he has generated since getting a fortune off his dying father - then tanking most/all of his business ventures.
The question for Jimmy, or any other potential buyer interested, is, how the feck are you going to kick this leech Avram out of the club. If you can not, then there will be his son or a daugther taking over Man Utd shares when he kicks the bucket.
Like the great Bob Gunton alias Warden Norton character in Shawshank Redemption, Avram wont go down easily.
Last edited:
Brady's wages probably. Who knows though? They have invested nothing in United. It's been one long litany of paying interest, refinancing the debt, taking dividends, prioritizing commercial growth, and all the time the debt has been hanging around our neck like a millstone. There have been no improvements to the infrastructure, and it wasn't until 2024 that football people were appointed in a position of authority. Would they have allowed the Bucs to be run like this? Have they put their own money into that franchise or has the money come from Manchester? Would they have allowed Ed Woodward to oversee the footballing side of the Bucs?
Ashworth was removed. Pushed. Not jumped.
He vied for the job, but wanted continuity 4231/433.
I'd say Ineos are attempting something more long-term, rather than reactive as per the previous administration.
The current squad have proven insufficient, this we know. They'd need removing anyway.
Whether it works we'll have to wait and see, but the previous tactical base of 4231/433 had billions invested into it with low rewards. The classic 'safe' versus 'new' argument.
It's been fairly mediocre thus far, but if we are somehow better next season, well, you know the rest.
Hard to disagree with this.
Starting to look like this and, let's be honest, who really thinks this situation can be turned around?
I have never seen any coach go from literally relegation form to title chasing form over a summer break. If Amorim was capable of getting into these players heads it would have happened already. Since 90% of them won't change over July and August I can't see how next season isn't a total disaster.
Cheery in here tonight, ain’t it? 
Just these two:
The redundant staff would have to go, anyway. They haven't been laid because Ineos made a mistake with Ashworth, for example.
The club is a billion in debt.
Furthermore, we tried to sign Tel on loan but Bayern wanted us to buy him, or loan with an obligation. They did similar to Arsenal and only loaned him to spurs after we both pulled out (meaning they'd return to their position if we re-entered the race).
I agree cover was needed, is needed, but we have to be careful to avoid paying the fabled 'United Tax' whenever our finances are as precarious.
Last edited:
You know when you have an FM save, and you lose 3 games on the bounce, and you just quit without saving and think "imma try this again". This is what happens if I don't reload the game, the team just spirals. And 10 seasons later the club gets relegated (of course i get sacked way before then)
Just Researched: in 2012 Glazers pledged $140m to Bucaneers. That very year was the year they sold class b shares of Man Utd for around $120m. So it’s not a stretch to assume that the money they made from selling United class B shares, went straight to the Bucaneers.
And how much have they pledged to pay off the debt? Sweet FA. They are bottom-feeding scum.