It's more cynism than idealism. I have a hard time taking fans of an entertainment company serious who complain about how that company is managed.I do not know if any minor shareholders could be convinced to initiate that. Also, could people who work at the club be considered stakeholders?
As I said, forgive my naivety regarding legislation. However, it seems absurd to me that this takeover was ever allowed. Do we have more details about the takeover and the legislation at the time? I assume there should have been certain conditions that needed to be met—e.g., you cannot buy a club and then let it rot in debt. I am looking for loopholes that could be, perhaps, exploited. Was there ever a discussion about that?
What you are saying, however, sounds more idealistic to me, even though I agree. You can never raise the necessary money, no matter how well-organized you are. They will never sell you the club. The debt will never be erased—it would take decades unless a super-rich owner, such as one from Qatar, does it for you.
Just came in here to post this. Just so we’re clear, every single ticket price rise, person sacked, cost cutting measure, is because of these interest payments. One of our best young players is being sold to service the Glazers debt.
FYI. Interest is also included in PSR calculations.
And wasting money on bad transfers is money that was missing to get rid of the debts.No - wasting money on crap players did that.....that cost us a lot more than the interests
And wasting money on bad transfers is money that was missing to get rid of the debts.
You are right about that, there is no guarantee that the money would have been used this way if it hadn't been wasted.Disagree, debt owed to clubs your correct in deferred transfer fee's but not the debt incurred by the banks. Manchester United is not a stand alone entity to service the debt, the decision will come from the ownership.
When the club produced profits all those years since 2005 where did the proceeds go? They amounted in over 155 million worth of dividend payments straight into the owners personal wealth.
If United didn't spend a dime over the last ten years in the transfer market the debt would remain. It is the Glazers decision to facilitate the debt repayment, they would sooner rather get shareholder payments than rid the clubs of it's liabilities.
Just came in here to post this. Just so we’re clear, every single ticket price rise, person sacked, cost cutting measure, is because of these interest payments. One of our best young players is being sold to service the Glazers debt.
FYI. Interest is also included in PSR calculations.
The club is undergoing cuts due to operating at a a loss due to expenses and depleted revenues. You don't rectify debts that exceed 900 million by raising ticket prices and getting rid of staff, it's to accrue for the net loss which was reported to be around 113 million.
Worst captain ever!
This and I feel sorry for @FrankDrebin if this is how he's basing his player assessments on. God knows what he thinks of Rashford.Being a good guy doesn't make you leadership material, so I wouldn't drag this into the discussion about the captaincy.
I think nobody actually denies that Bruno is a well meaning guy who really cares.
The belief from within is that it will take at least a decade before we know if the bloodletting has been worthwhile.‘If United are in a new stadium and challenging for the title then you will see it as justified, as a success,’ said one insider. ‘But until then nothing is certain.’There is, however, one thing you can be sure of. Early in the process, Ineos brought in a respected journalist to chronicle the cultural shift and write the story of how they returned United to success.
But Utd aren’t going to be an attractive investment, it will be a struggle to break even let one make any kind of profit.
The debt isn’t going anywhere, the stadium requires huge investment if it is to happen and you’ve got the leeches to pay off. Their price is going to always be higher than the value and INEOS only own a 28% so it’s a lot of effort for not much reward for them.
For Utd to be attractive to buyers the situation needs to get worse, the price needs to drop considerably. We saw last time the club was for sale the value of the brand wasn’t what people thought it would be, people weren’t queuing up to pay a premium in price for something that has continues to be going downhill and just needs more and more money spent on it.
The woman’s team have very little to do with SPINEOS and only Dan Ashcroft actually gave a S…. About them as he made multiple references while employed as DOF?In fairness, he probably hasn't watched a game of women's football in his life. There's probably a fair few on here who couldn't identify a female player by sight, including one from our team.
What's really telling is how the women's team has improved in spite of Ineos, whilst the men's team descend rapidly.
Brilliant post but the bare minimum of this assumption is that we remain a ‘Top 6/7 PL’ team, like Arsenal did to stay relevant during this period, nothing from SPINEOS suggests that this will happen, instead more likely a yo yo team at best flipping with bottom 5 to top 6 every other season?In a few years, wage bill will be down significantly, most of the short term debt related to transfers and the long tail of COVID recovery will be gone, and government by then will have started development for the area around the stadium. The stadium is actually key, because you can raise your baseline revenue that is not as volatile as revenue tied to sporting achievements and sponsorships. Long term debt is not a huge problem for investors, they balance that against the assets, ongoing expenditures and liabilities, and revenues.
Plenty of businesses have been sold for a lot more than United were being talked about, and many were in a similar situation (assets and debts on the books, stable'ish but not growing revenues, growing expenditures). Now a sports club is more unique, but that is not always a bad thing. Brand loyalty, something a traditional company would spend a lot of money to acquire, is a given, for a example.
I absolutely think we'd be more attractive in a couple of years if my read of what INEOS are trying to do is correct. Where I think the picture gets grim is attractive to who exactly. It will be another investment firm, investment consortium, or some state/state-backed fund. The other thing is none of that necessarily means better football. We just need to be good enough for revenues to not be at risk while we reduce costs. I think Arsenal being in the CL every year while building their stadium is possibly the best version of that. Anything about winning the league is absolute fantasy in this reality. I fear a reality where we're a stable 6-8th placed team, make some deep cup runs, and that ticks off the revenue targets without needing to risk spending more money chasing marginal revenue gains.
In a few years, wage bill will be down significantly, most of the short term debt related to transfers and the long tail of COVID recovery will be gone, and government by then will have started development for the area around the stadium. The stadium is actually key, because you can raise your baseline revenue that is not as volatile as revenue tied to sporting achievements and sponsorships. Long term debt is not a huge problem for investors, they balance that against the assets, ongoing expenditures and liabilities, and revenues.
Plenty of businesses have been sold for a lot more than United were being talked about, and many were in a similar situation (assets and debts on the books, stable'ish but not growing revenues, growing expenditures). Now a sports club is more unique, but that is not always a bad thing. Brand loyalty, something a traditional company would spend a lot of money to acquire, is a given, for a example.
I absolutely think we'd be more attractive in a couple of years if my read of what INEOS are trying to do is correct. Where I think the picture gets grim is attractive to who exactly. It will be another investment firm, investment consortium, or some state/state-backed fund. The other thing is none of that necessarily means better football. We just need to be good enough for revenues to not be at risk while we reduce costs. I think Arsenal being in the CL every year while building their stadium is possibly the best version of that. Anything about winning the league is absolute fantasy in this reality. I fear a reality where we're a stable 6-8th placed team, make some deep cup runs, and that ticks off the revenue targets without needing to risk spending more money chasing marginal revenue gains.
They're pretty popular with The Tampa Bay fans - mind you if they weren't someone would have shot them by now I guessOnly way would be to get rid of the Glazers is to kill of the whole Glazers family and all their relatives and all their neighbours and friends and then some. We are stuck and they will never care since they don’t pay a single dime for owning the club. It’s all so incredibly and unbelievably weird and disgusting. Even more disgusting it’s happening all the time everywhere, richer getting richer and people loose their jobs.
This time it’s a bit more behind it since the company got fans, us. Ordinary companies don’t.
Guess they care more about that franchise.They're pretty popular with The Tampa Bay fans - mind you if they weren't someone would have shot them by now I guess
I don't think anyone told the Yanks that last bitGuess they care more about that franchise.
And of course no one shall kill anyone.
I’m confused why a minority owner would take charge of the most important part of a football club then be happy to get it both barrels from every angle for that minority stake. What is in it for him? If INEOS are financially in trouble as the press seem to suggest and them cutting back on their sporting interests, why and how would he now pay up for the rest? The Glazers seem to be playing him like fiddle, he’s actually looking a bit of idiot for biting at this point.It wasn’t a takeover, it was an investment.
I’m still confused as to how INEOS as a minority owner are in charge of the most important part of a football club
INEOS are not in financial trouble at present, there are questions being raised about the amount of debt they have in relation to the company revenues which is seemingly too high for the credit ratings folks, it's profits have dropped but it still makes several 100m a yearI’m confused why a minority owner would take charge of the most important part of a football club then be happy to get it both barrels from every angle for that minority stake. What is in it for him? If INEOS are financially in trouble as the press seem to suggest and them cutting back on their sporting interests, why and how would he now pay up for the rest? The Glazers seem to be playing him like fiddle, he’s actually looking a bit of idiot for biting at this point.
Ok fair enough, I guess the press are just piling on, standard when it comes to United.INEOS are not in financial trouble at present, there are questions being raised about the amount of debt they have in relation to the company revenues which is seemingly too high for the credit ratings folks, it's profits have dropped but it still makes several 100m a year
He looks like an extra from the Walking Dead.All the money he's leeched off United over the years and he still looks like a tramp.
I'm not so sure about that. I've heard enough from other locals who are aware of the leeching they've done here too, but not as much vitriol as United fans have.They're pretty popular with The Tampa Bay fans - mind you if they weren't someone would have shot them by now I guess
It was never realistic to expect a challenge in this decade.So much for winning the title in 2028.
Some of them indeed, it might become a problem in future but it isn't at the momentOk fair enough, I guess the press are just piling on, standard when it comes to United.
I'm only going off a Google search - probably a generality because I don't think any sports team owner is ever truly popular TBHI'm not so sure about that. I've heard enough from other locals who are aware of the leeching they've done here too, but not as much vitriol as United fans have.
Dr Nefario from despicable meHe looks like an extra from the Walking Dead.
