You think our four Summer signings wouldn’t fit into any of the top 4 teams ?
Club ownership | Senior management team talk
- Thread starter golden_blunder
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You think our four Summer signings wouldn’t fit into any of the top 4 teams ?
Negligence not to replace them but the right thing to do to not spend the money? Nothing 'controversial', but you are clearly contradicting yourself.
Er debt and transfer fees are paid with cash not revenue. Cashflow is a thing.
Whats so hard to understand, if you dont want to spend money or cant find suitable targets, dont get rid of your first teamers. Especially ones that can run. A rare trait for this squad.
The financial position we are in, clearly.
Well its worse now we have nobody that can score a goal
I don't think you read what I wrote.
We're not. We were ridiculously lucky to finish 8th last season; by most metrics (and the eye) we deserved to finish 14th or 15th. A few individual moments of magic to score goals combined with quite a lot of poor finishing by our opposition meant we fluked quite a lot of results in the first half of that season when we were being significantly outplayed. In the second half of the season our results started matching our performances.
This season has actually been the opposite, in that while we haven't been playing well our performances have been slightly better than the results. It's just that our attack is utterly toothless (bar Amad) so we haven't been getting those fluky results and indeed have dropped points in some games we've been the better team.
It's not like there's a significant difference, but I'd say that as a team we're actually playing better this season than we were last one. Other than the attack and defending set pieces of course, which are the two things which are completely screwing us.
I think they wouldn't make any of them better.
So Ineos have invested £240 million of their own money, had two transfer windows which included De Ligt - solid this season, Mazraoui - Bargin, Yoro - always going to be one for the future, Zirkzee - Failure, Ugarte and Dorgu could go either way. Let’s compare that to two decades of letting the club rot, taking a billion out of the club in debt/interest payments and dividends, huge transfer failures on huge wages for the last 10 years that are completely screwing us now.
Yeah seems about even? Ineos have made mistakes but let’s not pretend that this is the fault of anyone other than the Glazers.
Also. We’ve lost 2 of the last 9 matches. I’d be absolutely shocked if we only win another 2/3 games this season, even with the injuries.
Surely you can see that despite the 4th biggest revenue, we’re losing money each season? We’ve averaged around £150 million net spend and been losing money, even with champions league money and top six finishes.
Take away European football next season and a 15th finish this year and that’s easily a £80 million hit on the finances. Where else do we pull that money back bar spending reductions?
I think we’ll see more purchases like Dorgu and we’ll all be arguing about why we’re mid table next season. And it’ll be because we’re spending like a mid table club.
That is an interesting perspective. I totally buy into the concept that there's an underlying performance, and then you can to some extent overperform or underperform relative to that, due to individual factors or, mainly, the randomness of football - before you inevitably get caught by regression to the mean. It's just I've not seen the metrics that tell that story, but I assume you have.
That doesn't much change my view of the summer signings though. If I envisage a future United team revamped to contender quality, i have a hard time seeing any of them as first XI regulars on such a team. Useful squad players yes, but not key pieces. Excepting maybe Yoro, but that's purely on projection.
I mean I said potentially… this is only their first season and they've gotten basically everything wrong. It’s not a great start and doesn’t bode well.
It’s also contextual, Radcliffe was deemed as a local fan who would do good by the club. The opposite has happened. These guys were meant to be totally different to the Glazers.
Also analysing the success of an ownership isn’t all down to how much money is invested/taken from/into a club. You can have owners who’ve invested loads who still do a terrible job leading the club. See Cardiff City, Sheffield Wednesday, Everton as recent examples.
Yes correct if we only look at it from the prism of how much the Glazers took out financially, INEOS will likely never be that bad. But there’s other things….
The results and football on the pitch are the worse it’s been in the PL era. And that’s what matters the most at the end of the day. If we get relegated under INEOS, then they will be considered worse than the Glazers and we are closer to doing that than we are to finishing in the top 4-5.
How did they get to the conclusion to let all those attacking players leave without replacing single one of them?
According to Melissa Reddy they'l get funds together for a top striker in the summer
If you think this you may understand transfer policies, but you don't understand finance.
Triming operations, less investment in players, etc. do have an impact on income. As United will experience after this season.
Which of course, will make the increasing financial expenses (something nobody working in finance would dismiss) impact harder on the bottomline and in the cash flow. It would also impact United's ability to get new debt. Which is needed for the stadium, which is the other asset the club has that could generate new income but is in need of an overhaul.
I’ve been saying for years, issue is how the clubs been run. We have had some bad eggs and some players with deplorable attitudes, but at times I feel the rest if the players have been dumped into the same bracket.
It doesn’t take many bad apples to spoil the barrel and I think we have a really cyclical toxic cycle going on.
Decent money Spent, decent money for a club competing against clubs who equally will spend a lot. This “200 million spent” statement is silly, Chelsea have spent multiples of this the last few seasons. Liverpool spend so much better and city can throw away that in a January window if needs be. All these clubs are ahead on either spending or squad strength most seasons.
So we spend poorly, not because of managers but for multiple reasons. One is we are crap at negotiations. Two is usually our managers inherit an unbalanced squad. There is that the club regularly buys players that don’t exactly fit what we need but are available and look good on paper. Four is that since we’ve given stupid contracts we can’t even offload players not wanted. Five, we have a disjoined , unbalanced squad but manager/squad expected to do well “cause 200 million spent”. Six is the over reliance on younger players the last few seasons, Mainoo, Garnacho, Amad , Hoijland basically first team starters because we have no other choices. No other top team would be blooding that many 1st team players and playing them until they are injured or their form goes.
I think the pressure of being expected to perform to such high levels with such a miserably disjointed squad is A massive issue. And it’s partially why we see this squad actually do well against stronger teams and more recently in away games, the pressure is effectively off.
If the clubs name was changed to Brighton we’d be top half of table with this Squad, probably challenging for top 6. If we had a solid striker we’d be possibly higher.
United has ground down quality top clsss players and mangers and spat them out. Many fans have been happy to blame the managers and/or players and while sometimes it was right or had some truth to it, every time there was also a significant, if not total, responsibility of the club’s dysfunction causing the problems.
I’ve said it for nearly since the glazers took over, the clubs problems are the club and how it’s been run. I don’t know if INEOs approach is any better. Maybe they’ve taken over a sinking ship and a human shield and getting the blame for the glazers wrecking the gaff (which was a worry). But at least SJR put some money into the club.
It doesn’t take many bad apples to spoil the barrel and I think we have a really cyclical toxic cycle going on.
Decent money Spent, decent money for a club competing against clubs who equally will spend a lot. This “200 million spent” statement is silly, Chelsea have spent multiples of this the last few seasons. Liverpool spend so much better and city can throw away that in a January window if needs be. All these clubs are ahead on either spending or squad strength most seasons.
So we spend poorly, not because of managers but for multiple reasons. One is we are crap at negotiations. Two is usually our managers inherit an unbalanced squad. There is that the club regularly buys players that don’t exactly fit what we need but are available and look good on paper. Four is that since we’ve given stupid contracts we can’t even offload players not wanted. Five, we have a disjoined , unbalanced squad but manager/squad expected to do well “cause 200 million spent”. Six is the over reliance on younger players the last few seasons, Mainoo, Garnacho, Amad , Hoijland basically first team starters because we have no other choices. No other top team would be blooding that many 1st team players and playing them until they are injured or their form goes.
I think the pressure of being expected to perform to such high levels with such a miserably disjointed squad is A massive issue. And it’s partially why we see this squad actually do well against stronger teams and more recently in away games, the pressure is effectively off.
If the clubs name was changed to Brighton we’d be top half of table with this Squad, probably challenging for top 6. If we had a solid striker we’d be possibly higher.
United has ground down quality top clsss players and mangers and spat them out. Many fans have been happy to blame the managers and/or players and while sometimes it was right or had some truth to it, every time there was also a significant, if not total, responsibility of the club’s dysfunction causing the problems.
I’ve said it for nearly since the glazers took over, the clubs problems are the club and how it’s been run. I don’t know if INEOs approach is any better. Maybe they’ve taken over a sinking ship and a human shield and getting the blame for the glazers wrecking the gaff (which was a worry). But at least SJR put some money into the club.
I doubt it. To throw away a full season where we are still in two important competition is pure negligence. Of course it is a proud day for those kids traveling with the squad to sit on the bench. But this is not the way to develop kids.
Wish the kids all the luck and hope one of them will shine today.
Would you accept relegation if it gets rid of Glazers? Would love to see a poll on this on this forum. Can someone post it?
I don't think its thrown away. It's taking a risk, but the players that went were essentially non entities anyway. If we sold Garnacho and never replaced I'd be more angry about it.
It’s impossible to compare the two. We could get relegated and the Glazers would still have done more damage. They’ve sucked everything out of the club over the long term and ensured that Ineos have little room for manoeuvre.
I’ve said this before but everyone seemed to accept we had to reset the club, even if it meant short term pain. Then when it comes to actually doing it, everyone wets the bed.
Many would argue individually many of city’s, Arsenal’s, Liverpools, etc players would look poor in our team.
Yeah erm relegation would be catastrophic for the club and definitely far worse than anything seen under the Glazers.
Short term pain is also not the club stumbling towards a relegation battle. That is absolutely unacceptable.
We have three wins in twelve league games and we’ll probably be 15th by the end of the day. People are not overreacting.
What do you mean anything seen under the Glazers? They still own the club, it’s still their debt, their mistakes. Everything about this situation is due to them.
I'd happily accept a demotion to the lowest tier of the football pyramid if it means getting rid of those parasites. We can work our way up Glazer free to the prem in 5 years and rebuild in another 2.
The sporting department is led by Ineos and you know that. And if we’re reflecting on the sporting performance since Ineos came in, it is shambolic. These lot make Woodward and co look competent.
Look the evidence is there man on the field. I’m sure you’re watching us lose yet another game with yet another stinker of a performance. This is now the norm under this regime .
Woodward is one of the reasons we have no money. You cannot simply turn a page in December 2023 and say everything bad is now is on Ineos. They’ve taken over a club in an absolute shambles off the pitch and it’s been heading this way on the pitch for years.One billion in depts, an old stadium, players on mega wages (that doesn’t produce), most likely missing Europe and new rules that doesn’t allow a sugar daddy to pay us out of this.
Selling players, getting rid of staff and reducing none necessary expenses. That is the only way forward.
Five to ten grim years. But we must reduce that dept, even if that is making Glazers even richer.
Selling players, getting rid of staff and reducing none necessary expenses. That is the only way forward.
Five to ten grim years. But we must reduce that dept, even if that is making Glazers even richer.
So we kick more attacking players out of the team.
I do not where are people getting this confidence INEOS knows what they are doing? They have nothing to back up their claim of being able to bring back glory to this club. They are clearly clueless as we can see with their other football projects.
Obviously we needed the money.
Feck the glazers. We're in this mess because of them.
Is that aimed at me? I have zero confidence in anyone being able to get the club back to competing for titles, however, whoever does try will need more than 12 months.
How did they discover this in the middle of the season ? Where they not aware of it in the summer?
With every defeat, with every kid who can’t afford to watch his team, with every poor performance from made for life multi millionaires, with every tough trip back up the motorway for our suffering match going supporters, I hate the Glazers more and more.
It’s on them, it’s all on them.
It’s on them, it’s all on them.
Well sacking Ten Hag and hiring Amorim is £20m+ they didn't plan for for one.
I doubt they'll have been expecting a lower bottom half finish at £3m a place (lost income) either.
This turgid mess of a season has been years in making.
feck the Glazers the weasel cnut fecks.
feck the Glazers the weasel cnut fecks.
There's the Glazer problem and then the English businessmen problem. The latter have directly impacted the club's decisions in extraordinarily harmful ways and squandered what measly post-dividend money the Glazers had to throw around.
The club has been rotted to its core, aging infrastructure, outdated marketing and sales, chums coasting on being the global football brand. The slightest bit of competence would have kept things moving the right direction. Just the tiniest bit of it.
The club has been rotted to its core, aging infrastructure, outdated marketing and sales, chums coasting on being the global football brand. The slightest bit of competence would have kept things moving the right direction. Just the tiniest bit of it.
Yeah that's on them. Not the Glazers. Also sacking Ashworth few weeks after appointing him cost us money. They clearly do not know how to manage a huge club.
I didn't say it wasn't
Sticking with Ten Hag in the summer was (very predictably) catastrophic.