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Club Ownership | INEOS responsible for the football side
- Thread starter Solius
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Agree completely. And even if they only looked at this season I would worry. Surely they would have to take last season in to account as well.
The review should be on both seasons and if the managerial style and tactics fit with their visions. Any possible FA Cup win should have been part of that review even before it happened.
but its not just one game - the culmination of two years of relationship building is evident.
Yes the season was fairly shite but the one before - decent. The bigger picture is that there are good things.
I'd let him have another few months. See how it goes.
I think its also the fact people really fail to understand the importance of consistency.
When you have consistent playing 11, you will do better, its not rocket science. I know it can look like an excuse but its also reality.
Imagine playing without your first choice CB/LB who you heavily rely on for ball progression and angles. Ten Hag likes a left footed Cb but he is having to play 4 right footed defenders.
Then you have Casemiro and Kobbie who were injured during different stages, Mount, new signing who never got integrated due to regular injuries.
Varane plays
He was clear last season, when Martial plays we play our best football, injured all season and we rely on a 20 year old ST.
Newcastle and Chelsea with injuries, same thing happened, they played inconsistent football.
The handling of his job being what exactly? The only news we’re getting is reporting from the press, which everyone should be taking with a pinch of salt, kicking United when we’re down is the easiest way of getting clicks. We need a new manager in place before the players are due back.
It’s clear that transfers will be happening without a huge input from the manager now, so it’s important that we use this time to make the right decision. If there is no manager available to suit what Ineos are wanting, it’s actually more logical to keep ten hag and wait. Hiring the wrong manager now and firing him next year will lead to a massive payout and more churn.
I also use the term Ineos loosely, because it’s hopefully not even them making these decisions. I would rather another season of ten hag and waiting for the football structure to be in place, than Jim/Brailsford deciding they wants a new manager and Berrada coming in with different ideas in a months time.
It’s actually mad how impatient people are.
Exactly this.
Why dont we just get our structure sorted, get everyone in place and review how we conduct business. Clearly, if the new board is going to sign players for the club, whoever they sign this summer, wont be Ten Hag's choice, will be the clubs choice, so in theory, if Ten Hag is 6th in November, a new manager can work with these players.
What is the point of sacking a manager now, getting another in for sake of it, paying Ten Hag off, paying other coaches and managers release clauses, then 2 months down the line we get our structure sorted and think... oh wait we should have waited for x manager?
There were "leaks" to all major media that we will conduct end of season review before making decision. I think if this was not true, Ineos Team would have came out to back ETH considering that there were reports by reputable medias that ETH will be sacked after FA Cup.
The problem with that is bringing in players a new manager may not want and who they’re then stuck with either short term, or longer term due to FFP. Not an attractive option for them. Arguably they’re set up to fail.
If ETH is their man, INEOS need to commit to him and back him. Assuming that a manager is, as part of his role, backed to play the system he wants (and frankly, it’s madness to have others directing that above him) then even if he isn’t picking the exact players he needs to articulate what type of players he wants. He’s clearly going to be involved at some level, with recruitment.
If they’re going to get the club back to where they say it belongs, INEOS need to make decisions. Football moves fast. That shouldn’t be a surprise. Whether they can do what they say depends on whether they can make the right calls when it counts.
I suspect they’ll make a call soon, if a decision hasn’t been made already.
This is my problem with INEOS.
The Ten Hag decision should have been made and communicated to all parties by now. Whether they want to keep him or not, right now they are looking like the Glazers, unable to make a decision.
The Glazers kept saying, long term plans etc... gave Jose and Ole a contract and were sacked in a few months. They have had months and months to review Ten Hag, it shouldn't take a week of reviews after the FA cup final to decide this.
You do realise that massive wages are a function of age right? Martial and Pogba got massive wages because they renewed after we'd paid insane wages to the likes of Sanchez, it's the same with De Gea and Rashford. You cannot say Alexis Sanchez' wages are not age related when we're signing a 28 year old. He was being paid double what Pogba was.
These players (like Casemiro, Varane, Sanchez, Ronaldo etc.) are moving here for their last big contract. It makes us a retirement home. It fecks the wage structure.
If someone is on 100k a week you can sit them on the bench and it's largely okay. If someone is on £250k a week that's a much bigger problem. You can trace our wage feckery back to Alexis Sanchez.
This post is like that double take Teddy Bear meme.
I was nodding along, agreeing with every word until I got to the Martial bit.
Martial FC's still alive.
Sanchez wage was not age related. We paid way over market to beat him from going to City and the fact he was the hottest PL player available at the time. It was just stupid business by United as usual.
Meanwhile what wage is Halaand on at City and how old is he?
Wages is a function of how rated and sort after the player is.
Although when you have Antony on 200k you have to ask how United as a club determine wages.
Probably the highest paid player in European football for the past couple of years has been Mbappe again nothing to do with being older.
Oh no I am no Martial FC.
Last season we had 1 recognised ST in Martial - injured most of it and relied on a combination of Rashford, Weghorst.
Come into the season just gone, no ST and sign on just before the PL season starts, a 20 year old who was injured.
I mean what do you expect from a forward line when you rely on a 20 year old, one that is constantly injured and when he does play.. Newcastle away, looks completely disinterested.
Then you have wingers that are not creative players, one of them is 19 in his second season.
A competent club understands these issues and fixes before they become major issues.
At Manchester United, we work differently, we see an issue, ignore it, hope the current players can come good and then realise 3/4 years later... OH we have a problem.
Look at the RB issue, we had no RB, played Valencia, Young and the like until AWB - even then got a wrong profile player in.
CDM - issue for 4/5 years and then get an ageing Casemiro in
RW - Issue for years and then overspend on 2 players in Sancho and Antony..
ST - RVP was our last striker that was decent, since then we went Martial, Falcao, Ibra, Ighalo, Ronaldo, Weghorst, Cavani. - all ageing strikers rather than actually building a team.
About as useful as taking your word for something that's not corroborated anywhere else.
To be honest, it's not easy to sell well when you have these players on such a high wage, where they don't want to leave or will have to get at least a 50% wage reduction. Such a long list of players that run down their contract or weren't extended. Starting from Jones, Rojo, Baily, Martial, De Gea, Tuanzebe, Pogba, Lingard, Matic, Cavani, Romero, Sanchez, Angel Gomes, Herrera, Valencia, Wilson.
The other issue with these players is that they were not performing well, so extending their contracts to protect their sell value is also not an option. I really like this 2-year rule floated around. You either perform in the first 2 years of your contract, or we sell you. Similar to what City is doing with Calvin Philips.
How do you know whats decided or what isnt?
For all we know TH could have been told already hes staying or going.
Where in my post have I said I know what's decided? please highlight it to me.
A manager doesn't come out saying I dont know if he has been given re-assurances he is staying, neither does a club conduct a review on him if they have decided he is sacked.
Do you think its gone this way? INEOS decided Ten Hag is to be sacked.. but instead of finding a new manager.. lets just conduct a review on Ten Hag for fun and waste crucial time.
We have regressed considerably this season and play some of the worst football I have ever seen United play.
I asked you how do you know whats decided. The question still stands.
Your sentence here below insinuates nothing is decided.
" They have had months and months to review Ten Hag, it shouldn't take a week of reviews after the FA cup final to decide this"
Due diligence reviews are very normal. Maybe they wanted to wait until after the cup final. Maybe they changed their minds after they saw some basis for a building project with TH at the helm.
We dont know if its decided or not - its pure speculation. Be patient.
true - cant argue with that statment. The lows were low.
Im not sure he's the man for the future but I have an inkling to give him another year.
Well we can both make arguments for both sides because neither know what is happening.
like you say, we just have to wait and see what happens. I really hope that this does not drag into July.
You've chosen two players who are child prodigies who were massively well established at top teams bought by oil clubs (and Haaland for a cheap price) and that's a counter argument?
If you sign Alexis Sanchez from Udinese you're not paying £35m for someone who only has 2 years of his 20's left and isn't demanding a Premier League record wage.
Imagine we start next season with the same manager, and largely the same squad. What could possibly go wrong
And Sanchez was an established top 3 wide player in the PL, point being the wages are determined more by the players standing in the game than their age.
Regarding signing Sanchez from Udinese well how much did we pay for Sancho and what are his wages?
How much did we pay for Antony and what are his wages?
Both players signed under 23 for large fees and big wages, again showing age is not the determining factor, infact more in today's market the younger players demand a higher fee because clubs value potential more today.
Stick me on ignore then. I'm not going to give you my name and address, pal. There are a few people on here who do know who I am and where and who I have worked with. This info is for them more than you.
David Silva and Sergio Aguero going to City in 2010/11 when we desperately need players in that position set us back years. How the feck we weren't all over that was criminal. We were the biggest team in the country, with a very aging squad and desperate for some inspiration up front and creatively. And we werent even in for them.
Guys I just want to say that some of us appreciate your actual insight on the running of the club.
So many great players went from the summer Ronadlo left us to the point where city were clearly the superior team and would be for years to come and we sat on our hands and let them and Real hoover up the obvious talents
History will repeat itself if we penny pinch this year.
I'd imagine the unreported wages/signing on fees and agent payments had a big part to play there.
The Glazers's incompetence and arrogance costed us that period. It's that simple. No need for any conspiracy theories.
It's not so much of a conspiracy theory. The Glazers are scumbags, but there's bags of evidence of how a Manchester City side who hadn't won a trophy for 36 years were suddenly able to attract the best players in Europe. Like when they paid £47m for Tevez but reported it as £25m.
And older players have a higher standing. How many players do you think don't have their highest contract around 26-27?
Sancho was signed for relatively cheaply, and his wages were inflated precisely because of the cascade from the Sanchez deal. Antony is on stupid wages, but he's less than 2/3rds of the high earners at the club like Casemiro and Varane. And that's because we signed old players from Real Madrid, who are going to demand ridiculous wages.
Say what
The bolded part is literally the job description of the recruitment department, which United has much like any other team has. Pointing out the obvious is not a revolutionary new principle, is it? Why did Ratcliffe have to present it as something unique and narrow it down to "three choices"? Real life is more nuanced anyway, and general principle is obvious. That whole list was super weird
I think it's fair to say that given it was reported in the reputable media at the eve of FA Cup final that ETH was going to be sacked after FA Cup. Ineos Team should have come out by now to either back him or sack him. We need clarity and new direction for next season.
£70m for one of the best u21 talents in the world is relatively cheap. The season before Dortmund were asking for over £100m. The fact we've badly mismanaged his development (or at least our scouting failed to identify he might have problems adapting) doesn't change the fact he was hugely rated and his eventually transfer price was relatively modest because Dortmund needed the money after covid.
We have no idea what was actually said to The Sun which caused the to produce the graphic in that way, in fairness. I would avoid giving The Sun the benefit of the doubt on this and assume the worst.
That was my point though was it not. I said that’s what we should be doing. Which we haven’t because we’ve given all our managers full control. And some people have been disagreeing and saying like do you think pep, Klopp and Arteta worked like that.
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