City and Financial Doping | Charged by PL with 130 FFP breaches | Hearing begins 16th Sep 2024 | Concluded 9th Dec 2024 - Awaiting outcome

Andycoleno9 said:
PL has reputation around the world by being the most honest league (playing by the rules).
So if in Italy (lets be real, Seria A was always dodgy league) biggest club gets 10 point deduction for one crime then City should be relegated. Every other punishment will be a farce.
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They can't just be relegated.

As far as I know, the PL can only kick them out, at which point they would have to reapply to the football league for membership. The FL can then decide whether or not to allow them in and also at which level they can enter at. Which could be anywhere from the 9th or 10th tier to the Championship.
 
Andycoleno9 said:
PL has reputation around the world by being the most honest league (playing by the rules).
So if in Italy (lets be real, Seria A was always dodgy league) biggest club gets 10 point deduction for one crime then City should be relegated. Every other punishment will be a farce.
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I totally agree. And its not like PL loses it appeal from City being kicked out. No one fecking supports them anyway. I would honestly rather have Arsenal win the league since they are actually a proper club.
 
Oranges038 said:
They can't just be relegated.

As far as I know, the PL can only kick them out, at which point they would have to reapply to the football league for membership. The FL can then decide whether or not to allow them in and also at which level they can enter at. Which could be anywhere from the 9th or 10th tier to the Championship.
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In Italy Juve was just that; relegated in Seria B. That was sentence. Fa can do that without question.
Although that is easily done with point deduction also. Fa can punish them with 100 point deduction which puts them on 20th place.
Also (just like Seria A did with Juve) they can get point deduction for next year's season in Championship (Juve started with -30).
 
Andycoleno9 said:
In Italy Juve was just that; relegated in Seria B. That was sentence. Fa can do that without question.
Although that is easily done with point deduction also. Fa can charge them with 100 point deduction which puts them on 20th place.
Also (just like Seria A did with Juve) they can get point deduction for next year's season in Championship (Juve started with -30).
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They can expel, but they can't just relegate them to the football league.

The only way they can, is with an insurmountable points deduction. 100 points sounds fair.
 
The Irish Connection said:
Disagree here. If they had any backbone they would relegate them. It’s bigger than just the league. It would send a global message that cheating of any kind in sport is wrong.
It might even elevate the premier leagues reputation.
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City have been responsible for a few really marketable moments over the past decade though, chief among the Aguerooo goal, by stripping City of titles (more so than relegation) they'd be saying to everyone ''disregard all that, it never happened'' - which is definitely a double-edged sword in terms of how it effects the Premier League and its reputation. Of course we'd love it, being fans of some of the most negatively-affected-by-City rival clubs, but the effect on the more casual consumer and how it looks in the eyes of corporate sponsors is the big question mark. Binning a lot of the last decade of Premier League 'lore' is like producers of a blockbuster TV show telling viewers to disregard the last few seasons (and not on GOT where that'd be an undeniably good thing).
 
Wengerista said:
City have been responsible for a few really marketable moments over the past decade though, chief among the Aguerooo goal, by stripping City of titles (more so than relegation) they'd be saying to everyone ''disregard all that, it never happened'' - which is definitely a double-edged sword in terms of how it effects the Premier League and its reputation. Of course we'd love it, being fans of some of the most negatively-affected-by-City rival clubs, but the effect on the more casual consumer and how it looks in the eyes of corporate sponsors is the big question mark. Binning a lot of the last decade of Premier League 'lore' is like producers of a blockbuster TV show telling viewers to disregard the last few seasons (and not on GOT where that'd be an undeniably good thing).
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That’s great but then other teams with money, like Utd or Newcastle will then be being told, ‘you can cheat for 10 years and all it’ll cost you is 1 season in the Championship, you can keep all your ill-gotten gains’.

And the same must be applicable to all teams.

They need to strip City of at least half the PL titles they’ve ‘won’ and relegate them.

It needs to send out a message globally that the PL is fair and competitive, if not the PL is literally done.
 
Rhyme Animal said:
That’s great but then other teams with money, like Utd or Newcastle will then be being told, ‘you can cheat for 10 years and all it’ll cost you is 1 season in the Championship, you can keep all your ill-gotten gains’.

And the same must be applicable to all teams.

They need to strip City of at least half the PL titles they’ve ‘won’ and relegate them.

It needs to send out a message globally that the PL is fair and competitive, if not the PL is literally done.
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Agree, their utter contempt and disregard for the rules need to be punished to the maximum to set an example. Moreso with ME money arriving in Newcastle and probably Manchester.
 
It is ridiculous really. I know that it is not short/easy process but what is the plan here? Let them buy and sell players, play all competitions another year and then what if they are found guilty?

This should have been investigated and done quickly. Them playing PL next season is just stupid.
 
The Irish Connection said:
I feel they should be thrown out of the football league altogether, but maybe Im biased.
On a side note, I saw a video last week covering the news of two high profile competitive fishermen being caught red handed with weights inside the fish they caught.
The anger from the other competitors around them as the fish were being cut open was palpable, and it was surprising that it didn’t break out into violence.
They were put in jail and banned from competition for 3 years, among other things.
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They should be thrown out of the premier league. Simply because the panel don't have the power to relegate them.
Football League has different governance and in the above scenario City would have to apply to be let in. Football League could drop them into the championship or to the bottom of the ladder or force them to do a wrexham and gain promotion by normal means.
Were on 15 years of systemic cheating and deceit and will be more by the time this is done. If that doesn't justify expulsion i dont know what does.

My preference in the whole scenario
Go after the administrators and executives first - lifetime ban from the sport. Owner is obviously involved so has his fit and proper status rescinded and has to pass on to administrators to sell club.
I like JPRouve's idea about 70 point deductions that guarantee relegation basically. I'd want to protect the club as a community and cultural asset basically. Giving them a year to strip away some wage bill before relegation. Maybe follow it up with a point deduction in the championship that guarantee's they cant be promoted. Or just flat out deny them promotion to the premier league for a period of time. That would be the sporting punishment.

I'd disqualify them from previous seasons but i dont think it matters. I dont think you can set them seasons right after the fact when your denying Leicester, West Ham, Everton multiple champions league runs and matches against Real, Bayern, Milan and so on. A bit of prize money wont set that right. Then theres the relegated teams. How many times have teams been relegated because of worse results against City then their competitors? Maybe its just never happened but you cant compensate that. Trying to would just be inadequate. Put a big disqualified next to their name and just move on.
 
If they're found guilty, they have to be stripped of everything they've won in the period they were found to be cheating for. They have to be. Otherwise, what's the deterrent?

If you're Newcastle you basically get given the choice to do the same, win half a dozen league titles, maybe a European Cup, attract loads of the world's best players, establish yourself as one of the world's top clubs, in return for maybe losing one title due to a points deduction and a fine which is completely inconsequential to you anyway. What choice are you gonna make?

I don't believe for a second that this will actually happen but if it doesn't then it's a green light for anyone else.
 
Relegate them but also impose a complete transfer ban in and out so all their players are stuck in the championship for a season.
 
We discussed this in the Juve thread... I think we were onto something with @Rayman96

Rayman96 said:
Lets do it properly though. 750 point deduction starting next season. They have to gain 750 points to break even so every season they just get relegated again and again with 0 points.
Bearing in mind all their players will leave, I would say we are talking 15 relegations minimum so they should be sorted for run at the Manchester Sunday pub league by 2039.
If only :lol:
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Pintu said:
I think this is the punishment for 1 or 2 charges... The equivalent for City's 115 would be anywhere between 700 and 1150 points (5 to 10 times more than what Juventus got back in 2006 -120 points... Which led to relegation).

If City get ducked 750 points they'd be relegated 5 divisions at least. Where does that get them?
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Sandikan said:
10 points for 1 charge.
So 115 charges = 1,150 points deducted.

Yep, that's the sort of tip we're looking for with City
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Robertd0803 said:
The Championship because deducting 750 points would mean they would end up bottom of the league on -650 points or whatever. Sadly dont think the points deduction would carry across multiple divisions.

Although it should, and they should end up playing Sunday League football against Larry and his mates down the pub.
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Rhyme Animal said:
Why would you want to force their players to stay…?

Very odd.
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Would be impossible and illegal (heh) to implement but the players are somehow getting off easy on this. They all know who they are signing for and what is going on.
They are legally shielded "they offered i accepted" but morally they're just as low as the owners.
 
IncyWincySpider said:
Relegate them but also impose a complete transfer ban in and out so all their players are stuck in the championship for a season.
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Why would you force City to keep their best players which would allow them to easily win the division and get promoted with a bang?

It would be much better to enforce a wage cap on them within their actual budget and watch them all flee like rats off a sinking ship.
 
Oranges038 said:
They can't just be relegated.

As far as I know, the PL can only kick them out, at which point they would have to reapply to the football league for membership. The FL can then decide whether or not to allow them in and also at which level they can enter at. Which could be anywhere from the 9th or 10th tier to the Championship.
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This. The only way to truly establish precedent and future fear is expulsion. I would go as far to say a minimum 20-year ban from the league. Let them toil for two decades in lower divisions. Sheikh will pull up roots and go elsewhere, maybe.
 
crossy1686 said:
Why would you force City to keep their best players which would allow them to easily win the division and get promoted with a bang?

It would be much better to enforce a wage cap on them within their actual budget and watch them all flee like rats off a sinking ship.
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Would those players even wanna stay there if they're relegated ?
 
MrMarcello said:
This. The only way to truly establish precedent and future fear is expulsion. I would go as far to say a minimum 20-year ban from the league. Let them toil for two decades in lower divisions. Sheikh will pull up roots and go elsewhere, maybe.
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And revoke them from all their oil money titles.
 
Rhyme Animal said:
Just wanna point out, again, the issue ISN’T oil money.

The issue is that they’ve cheated and lied around FFP.

The origin of their money is literally irrelevant in this.
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That's right. But the same owners probably can't be trusted in future either.
 
caid said:
They should be thrown out of the premier league. Simply because the panel don't have the power to relegate them.
Football League has different governance and in the above scenario City would have to apply to be let in. Football League could drop them into the championship or to the bottom of the ladder or force them to do a wrexham and gain promotion by normal means.
Were on 15 years of systemic cheating and deceit and will be more by the time this is done. If that doesn't justify expulsion i dont know what does.

My preference in the whole scenario
Go after the administrators and executives first - lifetime ban from the sport. Owner is obviously involved so has his fit and proper status rescinded and has to pass on to administrators to sell club.
I like JPRouve's idea about 70 point deductions that guarantee relegation basically. I'd want to protect the club as a community and cultural asset basically. Giving them a year to strip away some wage bill before relegation. Maybe follow it up with a point deduction in the championship that guarantee's they cant be promoted. Or just flat out deny them promotion to the premier league for a period of time. That would be the sporting punishment.

I'd disqualify them from previous seasons but i dont think it matters. I dont think you can set them seasons right after the fact when your denying Leicester, West Ham, Everton multiple champions league runs and matches against Real, Bayern, Milan and so on. A bit of prize money wont set that right. Then theres the relegated teams. How many times have teams been relegated because of worse results against City then their competitors? Maybe its just never happened but you cant compensate that. Trying to would just be inadequate. Put a big disqualified next to their name and just move on.
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yes, fully agree. I saw that posters suggestion of the 70 point deduction for the next few seasons. good idea.
I also agree about protecting the club as a cultural asset therefore putting the emphasis on their shady owners and upper management. There are some genuine city fans out there who supported when they were a normal club, and just feel that they won the lotto and are there for the ride, would be unfair to punish them by killing the club entirely.
 
Wengerista said:
City have been responsible for a few really marketable moments over the past decade though, chief among the Aguerooo goal, by stripping City of titles (more so than relegation) they'd be saying to everyone ''disregard all that, it never happened'' - which is definitely a double-edged sword in terms of how it effects the Premier League and its reputation. Of course we'd love it, being fans of some of the most negatively-affected-by-City rival clubs, but the effect on the more casual consumer and how it looks in the eyes of corporate sponsors is the big question mark. Binning a lot of the last decade of Premier League 'lore' is like producers of a blockbuster TV show telling viewers to disregard the last few seasons (and not on GOT where that'd be an undeniably good thing).
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nah sorry have to disagree, sounds a bit like when the glazers were on about 'legacy fans' and all that weird commercial marketing talk.

I think most people who love sport would want to see cheating as heavily punished as possible.
If anything it might attract some disillusioned fans back to the sport.
 
MrMarcello said:
This. The only way to truly establish precedent and future fear is expulsion.
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In order to expel them the Premier League would need the other 19 clubs to vote on it if with at least 15 voting in favour of expulsion.

If they are expelled they would have to apply to join the EFL but there is no guarentee that the EFL would allow them in.
 
Relegated to League 2, minimum 4 window transfer ban and all titles stripped during their cheating years.

Disgusting cheating club and disgusting doping cheat of a manager.
 
Bearing in mind other clubs have had points deductions between 3 and 30 points for tiny handfuls of offences, if even half of those 115 charges stick, then there would have to be the all time biggest punishment.

Transfer bans, stripping of titles and very probably explusion from the premier league, potentially a Rangers style multiple league relegation.

You suspect they'll deflect and delay for a couple of years though, and fight off the majority of it all, using trickery like claiming most evidence was from "hacking" and thus can't be used.

I actually think either they'll get a proper punishment, or in a few years there will be a splinter league set up with certain agreed rules, of which City either won't get invited into it, or they'll be massively clamped down on.

The English lot allowed themselves to be trampled over, but once City start winning the Euro and start brushing off Real Madrid level clubs, something changes.
 
Sandikan said:
Bearing in mind other clubs have had points deductions between 3 and 30 points for tiny handfuls of offences, if even half of those 115 charges stick, then there would have to be the all time biggest punishment.

Transfer bans, stripping of titles and very probably explusion from the premier league, potentially a Rangers style multiple league relegation.

You suspect they'll deflect and delay for a couple of years though, and fight off the majority of it all, using trickery like claiming most evidence was from "hacking" and thus can't be used.

I actually think either they'll get a proper punishment, or in a few years there will be a splinter league set up with certain agreed rules, of which City either won't get invited into it, or they'll be massively clamped down on.

The English lot allowed themselves to be trampled over, but once City start winning the Euro and start brushing off Real Madrid level clubs, something changes.
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Oh yeah they have all the tricks in the book and despite those charges I see them getting off without losing titles,transfer bans even points deductions which is a joke
 
croadyman said:
Oh yeah they have all the tricks in the book and despite those charges I see them getting off without losing titles,transfer bans even points deductions which is a joke
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The surprising thing is that the 115 charges have been brought. That's something. Although you'd barely know it from the media.
You'd think in amongst the "best team ever, legends" type reviews they might say "who are facing the hughest set of charges ever seen in sport".
 
croadyman said:
Oh yeah they have all the tricks in the book and despite those charges I see them getting off without losing titles,transfer bans even points deductions which is a joke
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I agree ... I really don't see much coming of it. The ManC lawyers will drag it out & it all will be swept under the carpet !!
 
We are playing them in the FA Cup final and we need to up the pressure for PL/FA to do something urgently on the 115 breaches. More banners and protest should be carried out in the final at Wembley.

This is to ensure that PL/FA take the matter seriously on urgent basic. Not drag the cases 4 to 5 years to conclude.

City don't deserve any titles until their charges are cleared. These are extremely serious charges on par with doping in sports where we have seen people like Lance Armstrong banned and strip off titles.
 
Pretty certain the reason it'll drag out 5 years, is that city will challenge it in court every step of the way and can afford the best lawyers...

Still think relegation will be handed down.

What should happen is a team level salary cap replacing the financial "fair" play regulations and a debate over what kind of league and structure for football we want.
 
Yakuza_devils said:
We are playing them in the FA Cup final and we need to up the pressure for PL/FA to do something urgently on the 115 breaches. More banners and protest should be carried out in the final at Wembley.

This is to ensure that PL/FA take the matter seriously on urgent basic. Not drag the cases 4 to 5 years to conclude.

City don't deserve any titles until their charges are cleared. These are extremely serious charges on par with doping in sports where we have seen people like Lance Armstrong banned and strip off titles.
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I'd temper my expectations, last I looked into it, the case wouldn't even be heard I wouldn't even expect the case to be heard within the year and punishments wouldn't be for several years.
 
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