My take- they will be off the hook due to technicalities / small prints or they appeal to CAS.
City and Financial Doping | Charged by PL with 130 FFP breaches | Hearing begins 16th Sep 2024 | Concluded 9th Dec 2024 - Awaiting outcome
- Thread starter VanGaalEra
- Start date
United were 4th in transfer spending in the 90s. Behind Newcastle in 1st, Blackburn in 3rd. Can you guess who was 2nd?
United were also 4th in the 00s. This time just ahead of your lot, by 30m.
Sorry to disturb your badly spelt rant with some facts.
They can’t appeal to CAS
They can apparently appeal but it can't go to CAS.
I didn’t think they could appeal at all?? They definitely can’t appeal to CAS though
I can't believe people still think City are just doing what others have done.
Even with all the commentary on the subject in the public domain
Whatever happens with this case, they are going absolutely mental in this winter window.
United made money by being successful, delivering attractive football, using youth and bring worldwide fan to them. Also, we did not outspend everyone btw.
Arsenal made money by scouting, investing in youth, developing them and selling them. They constantly lost their best players to balance the books because of their stadium.
Chelsea invested abramovich money into players (later when rules came into force, they sticked to it Bought cheap and sold for profit).
City on the other hand had none of those issues. They simply cooked the books, funneled money into offshore accounts, under declared the salary of their players, made fake sponsorships, used state funds and laundered money.
When probed, they refused to cooperate, threatened to sue and used every single tactics in their arsenal to delay and divert.
You became so desensitised to their crimes because they bought nearly a decade by delaying and stalling the case and burying it under piles of paperworks. You've now grown to accept it. That was their strategy all along.
Can't say I've ever seen a bertie pretend to be a dipper before.
You seem to be experiencing double-think.
Punish them for cheating but not titles because other clubs spent money they earned.
We actually didn't, our net spend and wage bill compared to the opposition will show this.
It's nice when it's clear so early on in a post that there's no point carrying on reading.
I mean
Wether your buying the league legitimately via being an institution that has created history over the years
Or by wealthy owners coming in, it matters not
The league is none the less being bought
That’s the problem with our system, and with many other systems outside the English Leagues, it’s not real competition, it’s battle or the finances
The richest institutions or clubs bought by those with the deepest pockets, Win
Your all kidding yourselves if that’s not true
Not saying we should adopt an American system, but who’s won the EPL since its conception 35 years ago? 7 Clubs? 2 or 3 of which were one offs
It an unfair sport ruled by business and not merit of the sporting ability, not when all the best sporting ability are harboured in just a handful of clubs purely because of the finances involved
Probably won’t see a Leicester situation again for decades
It was long enough since Blackburn!!
But hay, you keep telling yourselves it’s ok too buy leagues when your finances have come from built up institutions, but not if it’s a club bough by a billionaire
Both still buy leagues and I ain’t arsed about it anymore, I realised that when I wasn’t actually arsed about Liverpool being top of the league and champions league, couldn’t really care anymore
I think this is the point that most aren't assessing. City have put themselves in a position where the league aren't only going to punish them but ensure there's a ramification. The ramifications is what will deter other billionaires / owners from doing what City have done or taking up a similar course of actions.
The punishment, will likely be a fine but the ramification if being serious should either be relegation with some form of transfer ban for consecutive windows or stripping titles.
As you stated they need to deter others that in hindsight will be the most important dynamic.
Might want to check some facts about the 90s PL
Haven't they just signed one teenage player?
If you believe owners of certain clubs should be allowed to artificially generate their income because they can't generate as much as rival clubs organically, why would you then have a problem if their players used steroids because they aren't as naturally athletic as other players? It's essentially the same thing.
Stop spouting absolute rubbish.
A fine for a club that's been cooking the books and pumping in money illegally would be an absolute joke.
United and Arsenal were not outspending their rivals, never mind to the level of Chelsea and City were at various stages to win League titles.
It's kinda weird to mention Arsenal, Chelsea, and United spending money to win titles but not mention their own beloved club, Liverpool, in the same air. Let alone the entire spiel being a bizarre attempt to play down City's cheating.
On its own it certainly would be a joke but I'm saying that I can see the league doing both, they will likely fine City and then ensue the ramifications of either relegation or stripping titles.
I think relegation is the most realistic, stripping titles opens Pandora's box for clubs who were relegated with mitigation and or those missing European places having loss of revenue as a result. If my business operated in those very circumstances as a threshold claiming compensation and damages would be done in an instant.
So relegation gives the league and it's resources far less issue, combined with a transfer ban or two of so years (four windows).
Ok so it’s a fair league
I look forward too a Fulham title challenge in the next 5 years then
I’ll be keeping an eye out
As a supporter of a small club and United, I suppose the obvious thing is that the status quo is being kept if you say clubs can only grow organically.
At the moment you can romp through non league and leagues 1 and 2 as owner donations don't affect the financial rules. But when you get into the championship there's much tighter rules.
So a new club storming through have to rely on brilliant management and incremental growth, however rich their owner is, so in effect will never catch the giants.
Obviously City have just run roughshod over these rules, but there is an element of truth in their moans about the status quo or "cartel" as they'd put it stopping a club stepping up into that elite group. So you're relying on an absolute one every 50 years miracle season like Leicester.
dont even bother. when something is just in facts and black and white and has been for decades, but a person still doesnt admit to it, its because they dont want to. Surprise surprise some liverpool fan wants to parrot the same tripe online.
It doesnt matter to these people that in the first 10 years of PL football, United were the 4th highest spenders, spending 6 million more than the failing liverpool, 3 million more than everton, and less than villa blackburn and newcastle. He doesnt want to know this because it doesnt suit his point, and when he does know this he'll just hammer it into some shape that kind of looks like hes making the same point.
My favourite one, as an aside, is that in all of fergusons time at united, United were also the 4th highest spenders in england. Behind chelsea, city and liverpool. It's hard to take getting battered for two decades by a team that spent less than you.
Yep, that's the reality of it. If they at least mentioned Blackburn when talking about buying the league in the 90s, but nope. Just United spending any money.
Developing the most succesful team weve ever had around a core of youth talent? Forget about it. They offer some rubbish about it being a freak thing or criticise how we scouted or something. The bitterness Ferguson's domination caused in people damaged them beyond reason
I was having a look online and there is a facility for both sides to appeal. The appeal would go to a similar panel though, just with new members. There is also the last resort of an arbitration tribunal after that but that would only be if it was deemed that there was something amiss with proceedings.
https://www.skysports.com/football/...ng-concludes-with-decision-expected-in-spring
I don't know what the criteria is for an appeal. You'd expect they'd have to provide proof that process wasn't followed correctly, that the investigation was flawed in some way or important evidence wasn't taken into account. Ordinarily you can't just appeal because you don't like the verdict.
I think it's important to note that the verdict will be decided like a civil case and judged on the balance of probabilities. I can't see how they'll got off without some kind of punishment but if it's just a fine it'll be very disappointing and not much of a deterrent to others.
Fair enough if you meant doing both. I must have misread your post.
On your second point, I'd agree with that. Stripping them of titles would be a massive headache for the PL and open them up to loads of clubs taking cases.
Yeah, they can appeal but can’t go to CAS.
Given they’ve tried literally every single delaying tactic known to man, they probably will.
The rule should be “you can appeal but we can increase the penalty for a frivolous appeal”.
But the legal challenge would be against City not the PL? Isn’t that why a few clubs (incl us) have formally reserved our rights over future action?
This is such a tired and nonsensical argument. How long before it stops getting regurgitated?
The same day people stop pretending Keane ended Haaland's career
Your own club had a bigger net spend than United during the Ferguson era. As a Liverpool fan I assumed you would be well aware of that, given your clubs fondness for having a lower net spend than your rivals.
Only just saw the title change,
This has been concluded for almost a month now?! How can it be concluded if there's no outcome revealed?
This has been concluded for almost a month now?! How can it be concluded if there's no outcome revealed?
You can't imagine the 2 relegated teams and 21 others will say yes to having City in their league, as it guarantees 1 place isn't available for promotion.
But then that'd be more the case in every other division.
Although the Beazer Homes League Tier 3 teams would probably embrace the chance to fund themselves for 5 years just off the home gate v City.
Relegation to League 1 and a 3 year transfer ban would suffice.
No point in giving them a fine, money means nothing to them.
No point in giving them a fine, money means nothing to them.
Very close with Marmoush deal also + Larsson maybe from Frankfurt. So that's 40m+70m+70m
Yeah it seems quite long but they've concluded the hearing and presumably there was a lot of evidence presented which needs to be reviewed. Then they'll have to go through each of the 115 (or is it 130) charges and decide on each one.
Presumably they'll want to take it slow to lessen the chances of being overruled at appeal. We should hear the verdict by March apparently.
Yep, I suppose 2more months isn't much to worry about when this relates to stuff from about 15 years ago, and the whole thing took about 4-5 years to compile!