Expulsion from the league looks very likely from what I’m seeing from experts
City and Financial Doping | Charged by PL with 130 FFP breaches | Hearing begins 16th Sep 2024 | Concluded 9th Dec 2024 - Awaiting outcome
- Thread starter VanGaalEra
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I think the reason for the investigation, the findings coming out of it, are quite simple. Some people within the responsible bodies of football did their job. They looked through the books, did their research, collected evidence and then they did what the rules say: they charged City for their wrongdoings. I don’t believe there are any sinister motives at play for what has unfolded today. Up until right now, the investigation has probably progressed the way it should or close to it.
But now that the investigation is being handed over, that’s where the games really start, or better said, escalate. Because in the background, City won’t have stood still. They will have prepared. They will have hired the right law firms, consultants and private investigators. They will likely have conducted their own surveillance, gathered kompromat, bribed the right people, and created monetary and institutional dependencies and developed all sorts of relations to people in power.
And now they will start to bring all this together. They will activate their political capital, their own findings, all these dependencies and so on and incredible pressure will be put on those in charge of the decision making.
And that’s where the investigation will start to crumble, where the sentencing will start to become a farce and where they will ultimately prevail.
What people need to understand is the scale of what the whole of English football is up against. This is not a club. And it’s not a business or billionaire. This is a whole country. A country that sees sportswashing as a central tool for their foreign policy, their defense and their business relations. This has absolutely nothing to do with football other than that it is a tool to achieve their goals.
And from their perspective, they depend on it. They need it. The money they spent on it, both officially and behind closed doors, serves a purpose that’s borderline existential in their minds. They will pull any levers at their disposal. Activate any political contacts they have. And once that happens, I see barely any chance for English football to win this thing. They are outmatched. They lost this fight the second they allowed sportswashing into the league. Now far too many people depend on the money, the power structure and all other things Abu Dhabi brings to the table.
Agueroooooooooo No more? - I would love it if that got erased from PL history
It’s now getting even more serious…..
It’s now getting even more serious…..
So they got all those titles back off Inter and were financially compensated for the relegation season?
Lots of speculation here
A 15 point deduction would be a complete and utter joke. Cheat your way to become the by far most dominant club in England for 15ish years, get one season semi ruined. Would just give every UAE country the incentive to do this. They should get relegated to the conference and the owners should get stripped of their ownership.
I hope they get relegated plus an unprecedented fine.
I know, Delaney, but I think it's pretty fair. I'd be surprised if found guilty if they were stripped of titles (or if they were, that the titles would go to 2nd)... But i could see them being relegated which obviously would have severe consequences. The key point is this is the most serious offence and charge the premier league has ever announced, so if they aren't able to follow through then it makes a mockery out of it. When UEFA did it, at least there was the time barred argument where they just couldn't act on the offences. This is different now.
People think that’s to the championship but apparently this means all league football
It would do nothing and only benefit Arsenal. Why should the team currently trying to win the league benefit from investigations going back 9 seasons that affected many other clubs and prevented them from winning silverware?
It should either be big points deductions and transfer bans from next season or retrospective stripping of titles + points deduction this season.
Sorry but why is it being called allegedly by the media reports? The Pl have done their fact finding and concluded right?
I know that the Italians relegated Juventus in the past. I don't know if the FA has done something similar to any top team, for any reason. Have they?
Definitely. I’ve based most of this on what I’ve read on Qatar and the way they use sportswashing. Which is quite well documented, actually and similar to what has been happening at City. Now I obviously can’t predict the outcome, that’s my cynical self speaking. But their modus operandi is as I’ve written. They have created dependency throughout any level of sports and government and now is the time to use it.
All the following compensation claims and requests were postponed one by one by courts until being declared inadmissible in October 2022. Sporting justice, on the other hand, started retaliating with any sort of accusation every six months (starting from Conte’s betting scandal in 2011) until they struck gold two weeks ago, actually opening a Calciopoli II war.
Because a single mistake will result in them being sued into oblivion. They have to be incredibly careful.
As I said earlier on, I hope if we are found guilty we are punished a way that fits the crime, be it severe or not so severe. But I just want to point out that the reaction to this shows how pointless discussing it is. People want stripping off titles or a point deduction that is not pre-determined by the severity of the breaches in that period, but determined by where it would take us in the table, based on not even knowing what the breaches actually are for. That is completely normal fan behaviour, but it just shows that when the case gets to court, the only acceptable outcome for people would be if the club gets punished on the sporting side of it, and prefferably that other teams get an advantage because of it. But none of us are in a position to know whether anything other than a hefty fine is reasonable.
We may well be crooked to the ears, there is usually no smoke without fire, but I'm not even going to try and pretend that I understand the reach of the situations. The breaches are out there, information on how they are breached is incomplete and at this moment has to be considered vague. I want us to be fully exonorated, not on technicalities but because the club I support actually is innocent. If (and this is still a big if at the moment, despite peoples conviction that we must have cheated in some way) we are systematic cheaters we definitely need to get the book thrown at us, and I hope all the anger from me and my fellow fans gets directed at the people responsible for putting our club in the mud. There is nothing else that can be said at this point.
But I will point out that I believe allthough the amount of breaches seems massive, I'd wager quite a lot of Premier League teams would have gathered up a massive amount of breaches themselves IF subject to a 4-year extensive search going back in time. Doesn't mean we don't deserve what is coming, but since we are playing the guessing game anyway
We may well be crooked to the ears, there is usually no smoke without fire, but I'm not even going to try and pretend that I understand the reach of the situations. The breaches are out there, information on how they are breached is incomplete and at this moment has to be considered vague. I want us to be fully exonorated, not on technicalities but because the club I support actually is innocent. If (and this is still a big if at the moment, despite peoples conviction that we must have cheated in some way) we are systematic cheaters we definitely need to get the book thrown at us, and I hope all the anger from me and my fellow fans gets directed at the people responsible for putting our club in the mud. There is nothing else that can be said at this point.
But I will point out that I believe allthough the amount of breaches seems massive, I'd wager quite a lot of Premier League teams would have gathered up a massive amount of breaches themselves IF subject to a 4-year extensive search going back in time. Doesn't mean we don't deserve what is coming, but since we are playing the guessing game anyway
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Yes???You lost me at “more blatant cheating”. It’s either blatant cheating or it isn’t. There aren’t levels to what’s “more blatant” as blatant is already the qualifier.
FA doesn’t have it in them to strip of titles or relegate. It’ll be a financial fine or a current season points dedeuction both of which won’t affect City much
Everyone knows City have bent rules to get where they are and it would be justice if the PL came down hard on them. However, City is ran by very intelligent and wealthy people, they would have broken these rules knowing that they could get away with it or could fight any sanctions (like last time). So I’m skeptical as to whether the PL has any incriminating evidence against City that will stick.
At this point in time, I imagine City will get off with a modest sanction at worst. But, this investigation has been going on for 4 years so it must be thorough. Finding the evidence must be like finding a needle in a haystack but give it 4 years with a good team you probably good do it.
At this point in time, I imagine City will get off with a modest sanction at worst. But, this investigation has been going on for 4 years so it must be thorough. Finding the evidence must be like finding a needle in a haystack but give it 4 years with a good team you probably good do it.
They've been charged by the Premier League, their guilt will be determined by an idependent review body.
I’m not sure about relegation but account and financial fraud is no different in principal from match fixing as it’s aimed to benefit the club financially in order for it to be more successful on the pitch.
The likes of everton and Leeds will be looking at this closely too, depending on the punishment.
Suspect they'll want an outcome by the start of next season.
Suspect they'll want an outcome by the start of next season.
Ah okay. Chances of anything meaningful are even slimmer. If guilty the punishment is as per whose regulations?
Very naive view mate
23 times Man United.
That I'm not certain of, I think the review body will offer their recommendations of the severity of the punishment but the PL may go there own way.
A slap on the wrist and some gifts to PL upper echelons maybe
Thats what most probably will happen it will be a Administrative error sorry we will pay the dodgy FA and premier league Millions that they can afford.
I would realy like the FA and premier league have some balls and at least dock them points .
I don't know the details well, but I am extremely doubtful anything will come out of this. People seem to think this is genuine and there is high potential for actual punishment. I am open to correction but I highly highly doubt anything substantial will come out of it. At best a few million pounds fine, cost of doing business.
That's what they did to Juventus for one breach, they have 100. It wouldn't make sense.
Exactly. Even if they get found guilty of half the breaches or a third it will still be the most ever seen in world football.
That’s why relegation/expulsion on top on bans seems the most likely when you think logically about it.
Put them in league one. And dock Arsenal 15 points for being wankers.
The FA is fecking useless. They don't have the balls to do anything.
We won it twenty times, we won it twenty tiiiiimeees, Without cheating anyone, we won it twenty times!
I can't help feeling that all of this will come to nothing. After the last UEFA hearing got diverted to CAS and overturned, it doesn't feel like anything will stick to Man City.
If it's a slap on the wrist and a minimal points deduction in a season where City already look unlikely to win the league, that isn't much of a deterrent at all and hardly worth pursuing. The UEFA one might've at least affected City's participation in the Champions League if it came to fruition. Unless it's a severe punishment, FFP will continue to be treated as the joke it is and Chelsea are already flagrantly taking the piss out of it.
If it's a slap on the wrist and a minimal points deduction in a season where City already look unlikely to win the league, that isn't much of a deterrent at all and hardly worth pursuing. The UEFA one might've at least affected City's participation in the Champions League if it came to fruition. Unless it's a severe punishment, FFP will continue to be treated as the joke it is and Chelsea are already flagrantly taking the piss out of it.
Do you think they’ve lacked the nous to get away with this?
I think for years they’ve used their tremendous resources and somewhat skilful accountants to get around the rules and disguise it well. It’s taken a secretive investigation for 4 years to gather what they believe is a substantial pack of evidence that at this point has no guarantee of condemning City.