Exactly.
It’ll be up to the football league what to do with them if/when that happens. They won’t be under any obligation to accept them.
City and Financial Doping | Charged by PL with 130 FFP breaches | Hearing begins 16th Sep 2024 | Concluded 9th Dec 2024 - Awaiting outcome
- Thread starter VanGaalEra
- Start date
It’ll be up to the football league what to do with them if/when that happens. They won’t be under any obligation to accept them.
City starts at -115 points. Strip all titles and trophies won in that time of breach. They have to make a stand.
They'll be found guilty but let off with a huge fine that is absolutely no problem to pay for the Abu Dhabi Investment Fund.
This aimbot....can he play CDM?
I think stripping City of their previous title wins would mean very little since there will be no replacement winners anyway. I would rather wish them gets points deducted and be barred from Europe for 10 years!
Coaches have tried to get him to play different roles, but he's too rigid in his thinking. Almost mechanical, if you will.
Kick them all the way to 9th tier, lets see if ADU stick around then, I suspect a points deduction and a massive fine is all they'll get sadly.
I genuinely don't understand why it's taken so long for this to come around. Murder cases are done and dusted in less time.
Isn't there over a decade of cheating to unpack? The fact that it's taken so long suggests to me they're serious and it's not just going to be a slap on the wrist.
Am I the only one that wonders if the change in government has anything to do with it FINALLY moving forwards?
Verdict in early 2025 seems nice - this way Pep can’t play a full season without having to be confronted with it all.
I posted a few months ago that a change of government could see things move forward quickly, and was shouted down by a few people. Glad to see someone else thinks it's a possibility.
They'll get an unprecedented punishment, monetary and league points but I doubt it'll stretch beyond a single season in terms of impact
They could be docked 50+ points and will still likely stay up. If they win the cl or FAC they'll still qualify for Europe so it's back to normal next season anyway
I think the stripping of titles absolutely should happen. It's the only real way of having some legacy to this sorry affair. Their resources will quickly overcome any sporting punishment anyway so there needs to be a lasting record of this and a big black mark against every unearned trophy should be it
They could be docked 50+ points and will still likely stay up. If they win the cl or FAC they'll still qualify for Europe so it's back to normal next season anyway
I think the stripping of titles absolutely should happen. It's the only real way of having some legacy to this sorry affair. Their resources will quickly overcome any sporting punishment anyway so there needs to be a lasting record of this and a big black mark against every unearned trophy should be it
What irrefutable proof could City have for failing to comply with evidence requests? It was sitting in PL's spam folder all along?
I think the PL is different as it's a cooperative. All 20 members agree to rules and self govern with the FA stepping in as the middle man and impartial party.
Civil cases always take a lot longer than criminal ones. Also City have an army of lawyers and have delayed this heavily. They are better funded than their opposition (the Prem) - as shown by counter-suing over APT.
It surprises me that people are surprised this is taking ages, there is SO much to untangle and you have a party (City) actively trying to make this as complicated as possible.
If they're found guilty it seems ridiculous to not strip the titles. The titles are a direct result of the cheating.
As I've said all along i think this will come to very little, with too much money, influence and behind closed doors factors at play. At worst a slap on the wrist that sounds dramatic like a 25 point deduction or something. They'd still probably come top 4
As I've said all along i think this will come to very little, with too much money, influence and behind closed doors factors at play. At worst a slap on the wrist that sounds dramatic like a 25 point deduction or something. They'd still probably come top 4
Well this isn't true. The PL have more than enough money to take on Man City. People forget that the PL is the world's 5th largest economies biggest soft power export. The PL is also playing this on home terf. Let's not pretend that the PL is some kind of pauper organisation.
As I have outlined on numerous occasions, the PL never had to bring this down on City as they had a 'get out of jail' card with the UEFA decision and owing to its' structure it doesn't have to disclose everything.
Thus, they must be serious and have a case they know that will win as otherwise they're going to look like complete clowns if City get away with it.
The question is really, what happens to City? My prediction is as follows:
1) City keep their trophies - PL won't want to dig too much into PL past standings as it could open a can of worms.
2) City will get a points deduction to essentially relegate them. Think 70 points+.
I do reckon they will avoid being thrown out. That will again be due to the PL wanting to protect the product as chucking them out will cause issues with fixtures.
At that point the real interesting bit will come into play, which is: do they EFL accept them?
My money is on yes, if not it is an extinction level event for City.
Very good post. As you may know I have been saying something like this for a long time. My thread calling them cheats was shut down here after they won the league. My bet is on league two. There is a point where stonewalling and obstruction starts to work against you. The effect they will want is to make that kind of cheating counter productive. So watch out for a punishment that affects 2/3 seasons. And watch out for further charges relating to more recent seasons.
I do think their lack of transfer activity could be related to this personally.
Relegation (via a huge points deduction) and an astronomical fine is my prediction.
I refuse to believe they will get away with it, especially after what we have seen recently for Forest and Everton for far less serious offences.
Relegation (via a huge points deduction) and an astronomical fine is my prediction.
I refuse to believe they will get away with it, especially after what we have seen recently for Forest and Everton for far less serious offences.
Yeah I've said it til I'm blue in the face but anything less than taking away the titles will legitimize them and also make it look absolutely worth it for any team looking to do this in the future. 6 or 7 titles for one bad season with deductions? Decent.
It'd be like finding out an athlete was doping for three World championship wins, then punishing him only by saying you can't compete this year.
Of course they can.
They can be given a 115 point deduction a week before the season ends.
Being discussed now on Talksport
You're dead right. It shouldn't even matter than stripping them away means those seasons went without a winner, it should set a precent to show cheating will not result in success otherwise everyone will do it for the meagre punishment they will get.
So cool to know that even disappointment can be scheduled these days.
I doubt in those murder cases there was a private organisation needing to access emails and obtain information from an authoritarian state in a heavily censored and wealthy country where they have zero jurisdiction to force them to comply.
Have they tried to 'balance it out' by mentioning the 40 million Covid allowance United got yet?
That’s coming up next, funnily enough.
Personally I am of the opinion it is Championship of National League. I personally do not see how the EFL can say 'we take you but League Two'. I think it would either be as a classic relegation or a rejection of their membership. I think that would legally be hard to implement.
Yeah, I have been thinking this as well. They're hedging against a Champo season. So, limiting incomings as they'll fire sale next Summer then try and spring back straight away.
Well it isn't that simple. The stripping of titles is essentially re-playing/retrospectively punishing.
The PL would be wise to steer well clear of this as their have been other events that could then been claimed to need retrospective punishments/replays (whatever you want to call it.)
I really can't see the PL wanting to play that game. At best City get a *.
of course... because 115 charges and a relatively small one-time allowance for an unprecedented global pandemic event are more or less the same thing
Retrospectively punishing for things they retrospectively did, yes. They don't win those leagues without the financial doping, so they don't deserve them. Simple as that really.
Going down the leagues and giving out new winners, sorting out compensation, etc... is a fecking minefield and probably going to be avoided but I think it's a joke if they don't at least announce their titles as null and void.
It wouldn’t mean nothing, it would forever taint the club and players and managers would leave pronto. Confirmation of their guilt would be enough to contemn them to a future of mediocrity even before you get to the actual physical punishments like relegation or point deductions.
Expulsion with no return possible for 10 years would be the best outcome. Even better if they could only return if they had new, non-state, owners.
The ‘specialist’ they usually wheel out (Stephan Borson, I believe is his name), used to work for City. Impartial, I’m sure.
Anyone who thinks there is hope is just fooling themselves with both governments being direct on this matter. The early here and decision date is to close the chapter as soon as they can and move on.
So why did the PL bring this case forward if it was just for show?
There’s an odd situation where a deduction of points creates a negative points tally … if you haven’t already earned the number of points deducted. Any points deduction early in the season is almost bound to give teams a minus points total. I wonder if there are rules around that? Like could City be given a 400 points deduction?
Assuming they are found guilty, would it open the door to other clubs then going after them or would it be the PL in the firing line? I'm thinking of the clubs who have been significantly disadvantaged more so than most - those in and around the various European qualification places that would have been edged out due to the cheating. Surely there is a case for looking for lost revenues as a result of their rule breaking, but I'm not sure if it would be the PL being seen as just as culpable for not ensuring rules were adhered to.
If there is a risk here for the PL that can also play into their thinking (negatively). Has anyone seen that discussed anywhere? I'm curious to know how that would pan out.
If there is a risk here for the PL that can also play into their thinking (negatively). Has anyone seen that discussed anywhere? I'm curious to know how that would pan out.