[Richrip]

7 years on and still a debate if he’s good enough.

Has all the pyshical tools be an absolute beast. Quick, good in the air

Unfortunately his weak points often override everything else. He’s clumsy poor on the ball & ive always thought he needed to put on a bit of muscle up top similar to DDG when he came over.

His biggest weakpoint is his mentality.

7 years and he’s very rarely stepped up as a leader. One mistake often leads to another with him. Smalling and Jones should be leading this team.....forcing the team on when we’re losing, demanding Pogba Lingard martial Rashford Lukaku start performing the way they can.

Instead we get 3-4 matches of good performances Sandwiches between a couple of brain farts.

Get rid and either give Tuanzabe a chance or get somebody in with the right mentality to play for Utd

 

[AP88]

He hasn’t been this season. Arguably last season too. Jones is probably our most improved player under Mourinho and been the one constant (and usually stand-out performer) in our best CB partnerships over these two seasons.

The fact he played poorly against Spurs shouldn’t wipe the quality of his performances up until then from people’s memories (although, predictably, that seems to be happening)

Jones alongside Bailly/Rojo is competent - it’s when the obligation is on him to be the ball player he gets flustered. If Alderweireld is signed, then Jones would be decent alongside him too. That probably allows him a sustained stay as a rotation option.

Smalling and Jones simply can’t play together.

 

[RedSky]

He hasn’t been this season. Arguably last season too. Jones is probably our most improved player under Mourinho and been the one constant (and usually stand-out performer) in our best CB partnerships over these two seasons.

The fact he played poorly against Spurs shouldn’t wipe the quality of his performances up until then from people’s memories (although, predictably, that seems to be happening)

I'm sorry Pogue, but I really disagree. It's not the Spurs performance, i've been on his back for a while. He makes errors, isn't good in the air and is often caught up the pitch in an attempt to win the ball (and feck it up) exposing gaps at the back. People ignore it because he will do impressive last ditch saves now and then which is often caused by poor defending initially. He's just not a good defender, Smalling is a better defender (makes far fewer mistakes) than he is but is worse on the ball and so every man and his dog moans about it because his deficiency is obvious to the eye. Don't get me wrong, Jones can put in a 7/10 performance every now and then, but so can Smalling. The problem is that both of them are simply way too inconsistent to be the backbone of a team with title aspirations.

 

[Leftback99]

Did Smalling's 'weak passing' make our forwards miss a host of chances? Or make Pogba decide not to make an effort?
What do our better ball players do after they receive the ball from Smalling's terrible passes? We targeted Davinson Sanchez in the Europa league final because of his apparent weakness on the ball. Is he holding back Spurs playing some excellent football?

Smalling is just the easy scapegoat because we conceded one goal from a free kick on the half way line. There are bigger issues elsewhere.

 

[SteveW]

Did Smalling's 'weak passing' make our forwards miss a host of chances? Or make Pogba decide not to make an effort?
What do our better ball players do after they receive the ball from Smalling's terrible passes? We targeted Davinson Sanchez in the Europa league final because of his apparent weakness on the ball. Is he holding back Spurs playing some excellent football?

Smalling is just the easy scapegoat because we conceded one goal from a free kick on the half way line. There are bigger issues elsewhere.

100% correct

 

[Loublaze]

Could have been posted already and I compiled some similar statistics earlier in the thread that showed a similar pattern last year too, but this is all that really needs to be said. I didn't make the table but:

We concede more shots, more goals, and more points when hes on the pitch. His fans can defend his heading ability and one on one tackling all they like but they don't make up for his poor reading of the game and lack of ability on the ball.

If this is true then why is he leading our CBs in interceptions per 90 minutes this season? I got that from the player comparison matrix on Squawka. Also, what's your source on shots conceded and in what context is that stat presented? Total shots period or total shots conceded per game? Looking at your stats Smalling and Jones have had more than twice the starts than the rest of the CBs so naturally you would expect them to concede more shots in that time. Smalling is also the only CB who has featured against all our top 6 rivals, the best attacks in the league.

 

[Robbie Boy]

Not his biggest fan but I think he's been decent enough this season. I would keep him as a squad option, for sure, but for me he's not first team material. Some of his defenders in here go way OTT with their straw clutching, though.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Did Smalling's 'weak passing' make our forwards miss a host of chances? Or make Pogba decide not to make an effort?
What do our better ball players do after they receive the ball from Smalling's terrible passes? We targeted Davinson Sanchez in the Europa league final because of his apparent weakness on the ball. Is he holding back Spurs playing some excellent football?

Smalling is just the easy scapegoat because we conceded one goal from a free kick on the half way line. There are bigger issues elsewhere.

Well Sanchez is streets ahead of Smalling in terms of his ability on the ball. So I guess that answers your questions.

The “bigger issues elsewhere” is only relevant to a straw man where Smalling is being accused of being the one and only reason we lost at the weekend. Which is an argument that nobody is making.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

I'm sorry Pogue, but I really disagree. It's not the Spurs performance, i've been on his back for a while. He makes errors, isn't good in the air and is often caught up the pitch in an attempt to win the ball (and feck it up) exposing gaps at the back. People ignore it because he will do impressive last ditch saves now and then which is often caused by poor defending initially. He's just not a good defender, Smalling is a better defender (makes far fewer mistakes) than he is but is worse on the ball and so every man and his dog moans about it because his deficiency is obvious to the eye. Don't get me wrong, Jones can put in a 7/10 performance every now and then, but so can Smalling. The problem is that both of them are simply way too inconsistent to be the backbone of a team with title aspirations.

Well we’ve have to agree to disagree. I think you’re dead wrong.

 

[OnlyTwoDaSilvas]

Well Sanchez is streets ahead of Smalling in terms of his ability on the ball. So I guess that answers your questions.

He's a bit better with it. I wouldn't say streets ahead. He often looks a nervous wreck when he's got the ball at his feet, and his output with it is inconsistent. Wild and rash clearances and wayward long pass attempts, similar to Smalling. Though Sanchez gets a bit more benefit of the doubt due to how young he is. He can and should get better. Smalling now probably won't.

 

[Dec9003]

Smalling should absolutely be gone in the summer. He's a worse centre back than TFM and Tuanzebe, I'd rather one of them had stayed and played over him, since they have a future here.

 

[Robbie Boy]

Well we’ve have to agree to disagree. I think you’re dead wrong.

Go to agree with you here. Jones, for me is better and has improved a-lot under Mourinho.

 

[togg]

He's not good on the ball and at his age now, I don't believe he ever will be. You need CB's to be able to bring the ball out of defense and spray those passes, not have the midfield regularly having to drift back to help out - probably more out of fear than a sense of duty! Bloody hell it makes me appreciate just how good Rio and Vidic were back in the days.

 

[diplomat]

Go to agree with you here. Jones, for me is better and has improved a-lot under Mourinho.

Jones seems to play a lot more nervously when paired with Smalling, for some odd reason. He always had the better ball-control and passing abilities, it's the reason why Sir Alex was playing him a lot of times as a DM and also why SAF made that silly comparison to Duncan Edwards.

 

[11101]

If this is true then why is he leading our CBs in interceptions per 90 minutes this season? I got that from the player comparison matrix on Squawka. Also, what's your source on shots conceded and in what context is that stat presented? Total shots period or total shots conceded per game? Looking at your stats Smalling and Jones have had more than twice the starts than the rest of the CBs so naturally you would expect them to concede more shots in that time. Smalling is also the only CB who has featured against all our top 6 rivals, the best attacks in the league.

He is an excellent defender in certain situations. He is always a step behind the play and his performance usually comes down to whether he is up against attackers he can recover quickly against, or he's up against a single threat and can concentrate entirely on one player. In those cases he's extremely hard to beat.

Against teams that frequently interchange their play or teams that press far up the pitch, he is absolutely horrendous. Unfortunately for him the PL seems to be moving more and more in that direction.

 

[Loublaze]

He is an excellent defender in certain situations. He is always a step behind the play and his performance usually comes down to whether he is up against attackers he can recover quickly against, or he's up against a single threat and can concentrate entirely on one player. In those cases he's extremely hard to beat.

Against teams that frequently interchange their play or teams that press far up the pitch, he is absolutely horrendous. Unfortunately for him the PL seems to be moving more and more in that direction.

Which teams who play this way has he been horrendous against this season? I'll give you the recent Spurs game, even though Jones is the one who actually struggled in the way you describe because he was at fault for the second and played a huge part in conceding the first. He panicked under pressure. We drew 0-0 away at Anfield with Smalling and Jones playing 90 mins and both played well, keeping Salah, Firmino and Countino quiet. United are the only top 4 side Liverpool have failed to score against this season. Against City he had a pretty much standard game and it was Lukaku's two bad clearances that cost us the points so I don't see anything about his overall performance that was absolutely horrendous there either. Against Chelsea we lost 1-0 through no fault of his own and against Arsenal (1-3) while they had a lot of shots on goal i still didn't see a horrendous performance. That Arsenal game is actually the one game we had the most shots against us.

 

[Ekeke]

Yeah, he was real reliable that last game. A centre half diving. The state of him.

Time's up for him. 28 years old, still not up to standards.

So 1 game is more important than the rest of the season. Knee jerk nonsense

 

[Ekeke]

7 years on and still a debate if he’s good enough.

There isnt a debate. Every manager who he has played under at United has ended up picking him a lot. Its fans who think they know more than managers and his teammates that decided he isnt good enough at some point and nothing he ever does will change that opinion.

All the managers picked him and relied on him, so no debate from them. All the fans who cant appreciate him are unlikely to ever change - even if he scores a hatrick against City it wouldn't change that. So really the problem is that there isnt a debate. People have already made their mind up and for some reason our fans who dont know how to defend think they know more than the experts who respect and rely on Smalling.

 

[manunited1919]

Could have been posted already and I compiled some similar statistics earlier in the thread that showed a similar pattern last year too, but this is all that really needs to be said. I didn't make the table but:

We concede more shots, more goals, and more points when hes on the pitch. His fans can defend his heading ability and one on one tackling all they like but they don't make up for his poor reading of the game and lack of ability on the ball.

This is ridiculous. Smalling has played against Tottenham, Chelsea, City etc. While Bailey, Rojo & Lindelof have played in some cup games, a few Premier League games, and the relatively easy CL group stage games we had this year. It’s not an apples to apples comparison, not even close.

 

[manunited1919]

I'm sorry Pogue, but I really disagree. It's not the Spurs performance, i've been on his back for a while. He makes errors, isn't good in the air and is often caught up the pitch in an attempt to win the ball (and feck it up) exposing gaps at the back. People ignore it because he will do impressive last ditch saves now and then which is often caused by poor defending initially. He's just not a good defender, Smalling is a better defender (makes far fewer mistakes) than he is but is worse on the ball and so every man and his dog moans about it because his deficiency is obvious to the eye. Don't get me wrong, Jones can put in a 7/10 performance every now and then, but so can Smalling. The problem is that both of them are simply way too inconsistent to be the backbone of a team with title aspirations.

This. If one of the two needs to be sold, it’s Jones.

 

[RedPed]

Watching Smalling play shit....but in an Arsenal shirt would give me the warmest of feelings inside! Ffs Jose, make this happen.....PLEASE!

https://www.manchestereveningnews.c...r-news/man-utd-transfer-news-arsenal-14291414

 

[Loublaze]

I have given the breakdown of the goals. Not sure how anyone can blame Smalling for Lukaku failing to clear the ball or Jones's inability to use his left leg, or lindeloff failing to head the ball.

This. He'll stick to his narrative whatever you say though. If Smalling screws up he's on his own, if the others screw up its because they are partnered with Smalling. Ridiculous.

 

[R'hllor]

I dont mind Smalling, one thing it makes my blood boil tho, when he sees clear space in front, runs with a ball for X yards and then he passes not sideways but sharp backwards on right side

 

[Jeffthered]

Solid under Fergie, and was always going to be your man-marker, stopper etc. I personally, like him... he likes being at United, he knows the ethos of the club, and has a lot of experience.

He isn't a Johnson, Stam, Pallister, Rio, Vidic etc... but he is a solid defender, who grabs the odd goal. He isn't a ball player (remember Sol Campbell... an excellent marker, head-volley defender.. but he couldn't hardly kick the ball...) United have room for Smalling, the problem is too many fans want players to do things that are not in their natural game. Vidic was decent on the ball, but no Rio. Rio was not a Vidic in fundamental defensive duties... it's about balance. What a shame we sold Jonny Evans, but there we go, hindsight is a thing.

Bailly and Lindeholf could possibly help Smalling, but what we lack is a clear defensive leader. Rojo is in many ways the closest we have, alongside Bailly (who leads by example...). Jones plays three great games, but has these moments when he just seems to lose all sense of coherence.

 

[villain]

Fecking hell, 5 days on and everyone is still angry at Smalling?

We've lost far more games due to individual errors at the hands of other CB's this season and previous ones, but I've never seen such an reaction since Evans @ MK Dons tbh.

Move on.

 

[Esquire]

Did Smalling's 'weak passing' make our forwards miss a host of chances? Or make Pogba decide not to make an effort?
What do our better ball players do after they receive the ball from Smalling's terrible passes? We targeted Davinson Sanchez in the Europa league final because of his apparent weakness on the ball. Is he holding back Spurs playing some excellent football?

Smalling is just the easy scapegoat because we conceded one goal from a free kick on the half way line. There are bigger issues elsewhere.

Agree with all of that. But that doesn’t not equate he is not United first XI standard. Would be a very good backup.

 

[NinjaZombie]

So 1 game is more important than the rest of the season. Knee jerk nonsense

Knee jerk? Maybe I've not expressed this on the forum here often, but my friends in real life are probably tired of me moaning about Smalling the past two seasons.

I thought he'd turn the corner for awhile during Van Gaal's time, but it's looking increasingly like that was a purple patch.

 

[redchamp]

Great header of the ball. He's done well for us with crucial headers clearing crosses etc. but he negates a lot of that with his nervousness on the ball. If I'm a manager playing against us, I press everywhere to leave Smalling as the spare man on the ball, 85% of the time he'll panic and pass to De Gea or knock it long himself and concede possession.

 

[Morpheus 7]

Knee jerk? Maybe I've not expressed this on the forum here often, but my friends in real life are probably tired of me moaning about Smalling the past two seasons.

I thought he'd turn the corner for awhile during Van Gaal's time, but it's looking increasingly like that was a purple patch.

Same as man, it's far from kneejerk too. He's a nervous player and spreads it to backline. I honestly feel people are watching a different game at times. He loses the ball so much and constantly passes on responsibility. Jones might get highlighted for own goals but he was excellent before the new year. I just feel that there is a mistake and negative pass coming, before he could compete in the air but now I'm almost expecting an error.

 

[AndyJ1985]

He's a mediocre defender and an appalling footballer. A man who is so thick and so poor on the ball should not be anywhere near our team.

 

[RedPed]

He's a mediocre defender and an appalling footballer. A man who is so thick and so poor on the ball should not be anywhere near our team.

But he's tall and can head a ball??

 

[Amar__]

Watching Smalling play shit....but in an Arsenal shirt would give me the warmest of feelings inside! Ffs Jose, make this happen.....PLEASE!

https://www.manchestereveningnews.c...r-news/man-utd-transfer-news-arsenal-14291414

Wow, this is some really embarrassing stuff. This place is really worse than rawk these days.

Wishing our player who is third or fourth choice for our captain, and one of the longest servant plays shit for a rival team.

 

[diplomat]

He's a mediocre defender and an appalling footballer. A man who is so thick and so poor on the ball should not be anywhere near our team.

Agree completely and I think the club has given him more than enough chances to prove himself and also to develop his game, which he hasn't as he just probably doesn't have the talent for it at all.

 

[RedPed]

Wow, this is some really embarrassing stuff. This place is really worse than rawk these days.

Wishing our player who is third or fourth choice for our captain, and one of the longest servant plays shit for a rival team.

Get over yourself! It's no different to the abuse that Darmian, Fellaini, Lukaku, Pogba, Rojo and even Mourinho gets. And Rooney was pilloried right up until he left for Everton....and he's done a lot more than Smalling will ver do.

 

[diplomat]

Get over yourself! It's no different to the abuse that Darmian, Fellaini, Lukaku, Pogba, Rojo and even Mourinho gets. And Rooney was pilloried right up until he left for Everton....and he's done a lot more than Smalling will ver do.

Exactly. Rooney is our all-time top goalscorer, probably in top 5 (if not top 3) for most assists as well, captain of the club, captain and all-time goalscorer for England as well, won almost everything possible with the club and on numerous occasions. And there isn't a player that has been shat on and abused more than Wayne on RedCafe, probably someone like Gerrard, which is embarrassing. Yet people get defensive over the likes of Smalling, Pogba, who've done almost nothing of note for Manchester United.

 

[RedPed]

Exactly. Rooney is our all-time top goalscorer, probably in top 5 (if not top 3) for most assists as well, captain of the club, captain and all-time goalscorer for England as well, won almost everything possible with the club and on numerous occasions. And there isn't a player that has been shat on and abused more than Wayne on RedCafe, probably someone like Gerrard, which is embarrassing. Yet people get defensive over the likes of Smalling, Pogba, who've done almost nothing of note for Manchester United.

I know. It's embarrassing! Kept his dignity throughout when he was dropped and didn't make a fuss or throw his toys out the pram!

 

[Loublaze]

Same as man, it's far from kneejerk too. He's a nervous player and spreads it to backline. I honestly feel people are watching a different game at times. He loses the ball so much and constantly passes on responsibility. Jones might get highlighted for own goals but he was excellent before the new year. I just feel that there is a mistake and negative pass coming, before he could compete in the air but now I'm almost expecting an error.

Do you have any standout examples of when he lost the ball in possession, since he does it so much? Smalling actually holds on to possession pretty well, the complaints here about his ability on the ball. Rojo has a pass completion rate per game of 81%. Jones has 91% and Smalling has 87% for the season so far in the league.

 

[Dec9003]

Smalling is West Ham quality, very average player.

 

[Antonedwin]

I pinched this from the comments section on reddit.



Make of that what you will. You could certainly argue that the absolute age the ball takes to come out from the back when he’s playing makes us a lot less potent going forwards.

Of course to make any sense of these stats (and the ones posted by @11101 above) we need to know whether or not he might have played a higher proportion of difficult fixtures than his peers.

Did Smalling's 'weak passing' make our forwards miss a host of chances? Or make Pogba decide not to make an effort?
What do our better ball players do after they receive the ball from Smalling's terrible passes? We targeted Davinson Sanchez in the Europa league final because of his apparent weakness on the ball. Is he holding back Spurs playing some excellent football?

Smalling is just the easy scapegoat because we conceded one goal from a free kick on the half way line. There are bigger issues elsewhere.

100% correct

Sanchez at least was not doing much back pass to lloris.
Smalling Biggest problem isn't how he defend. It's his passing game , he is awkward with the ball & fall flat under pressure , notice how he always gave responsibilities on the ball to everyone near him , and lots to de gea , which forced him to hoof the ball more often , which increases our dependence to fellaini.
It ruin our attacking play. A good football start from the back , a top team must play with defender whom are good & calm on the ball.

Smalling will do well for west ham/stoke team like that's for sure but we need better than him , the reason why jose bought 2 new right footed CB for the last 2 years so it's not that he didn't realise what problems smalling has caused to the team play

Pep turn macherano into CB because he need to someone who can play from the back to be foundation for his tiki-taka , who cares if he is short. It's football , not air ball

Tell me which top teams in europe have a defender who are poor on the ball ?

 

[iKeano]

Smalling should absolutely be gone in the summer. He's a worse centre back than TFM and Tuanzebe, I'd rather one of them had stayed and played over him, since they have a future here.

This. 100%.

Smalling has been there or there abouts for years, but is clearly not the level of defender Utd need to progress. Blood TFM & Tuanzebe now, get them playing ASAP. Would rather see a young defender making mistakes they can learn from than Jim-Henson muppet-head Smalling make the same mistakes over and over again, clearly never learning.