Nonsense. He plays because the other CBs are injured. When all our defenders are fit he’s on the bench. And when he’s on the bench we concede fewer goals per game than we do when he starts. This isn’t a coincidence.
12
Season Average Rating
- Appearances
- 45
- Clean sheets
- 20
- Goals
- 4
- Assists
- 0
- Yellow cards
- 4
- Status
Nonsense. He plays because the other CBs are injured. When all our defenders are fit he’s on the bench. And when he’s on the bench we concede fewer goals per game than we do when he starts. This isn’t a coincidence.
Times up for him,hope we get a proper centre back.
Smalling has zero composure on the ball and always looks like a rabbit in the headlights.
I think he will be gone this summer but Jones will stay and the reason I think will be because Jones will put his head where it hurts, Smalling won't.
We will have to see if we can somehow get Leicester to believe it's a good deal for them if we gave them Smalling and they gave us harry maguire!
Don't Think there is a better center back in the league at the moment that will bring the ball out from defence.
I think he will be gone this summer but Jones will stay and the reason I think will be because Jones will put his head where it hurts, Smalling won't.
We will have to see if we can somehow get Leicester to believe it's a good deal for them if we gave them Smalling and they gave us harry maguire!
Don't Think there is a better center back in the league at the moment that will bring the ball out from defence.
Last edited by a moderator:
Well he dived in his own half to concede the freekick from which they scored and didn't win the knock down in the box. It hardly happened when he was off the pitch.
Far from the truth because Smalling was starting every CL group game even when Jones and Bailly were fit. He's amassed 17 clean sheets this season which is more than any other CB in the league. Its not his fault the others can't stay fit. He's played in all the important games. Where were Jones, Bailly and Rojo for the EL final? Smalling played that and provided the assist to Mkhitaryan for the second goal that put the game to bed. He's the only CB in the team that has played against the other top 6 rivals.
The free kick wasn't even in a dangerous position. Who was tracking the goal scorer Ritchie?
Wow. Talk about sticking your neck out.
Hold on a sec, I have just the point needed to convince you your evangelical zeal for big Chris is sadly misplaced. Oh wait. I don’t. I think I’ll try to convince flat earthers the world is round instead. That should be a much easier task.
Knock yourself out
No question one of Jones or Smalling has to be taken out of the rotation. I would never play them together.
I used to think Jones has to be sold cuz he is never fit but I have changed my mind. Smalling has to go cuz he is not good enough. Smalling is the better pure defender, particularly excellent in the air but so poor on the ball that we just can't carry on with him. Many ways he is the poster child for our poor football. Is there any other top team with an outfield player so poor on the ball, and I mean any out field player? To justify playing him he has to be near spotless defensively which he obviously is not.
I would sell Jones too. For me his own goal against Spurs was criminal.
Get Axel and buy another to replace the pair of them.
I used to think Jones has to be sold cuz he is never fit but I have changed my mind. Smalling has to go cuz he is not good enough. Smalling is the better pure defender, particularly excellent in the air but so poor on the ball that we just can't carry on with him. Many ways he is the poster child for our poor football. Is there any other top team with an outfield player so poor on the ball, and I mean any out field player? To justify playing him he has to be near spotless defensively which he obviously is not.
I would sell Jones too. For me his own goal against Spurs was criminal.
Get Axel and buy another to replace the pair of them.
Well it clearly was as they scored from it. He made a major error from which we conceded, it's not really disputable. I'm not saying he is solely at fault for the goal, but time and again he makes it clear that he isn't good enough to play for us, which I assume is why we signed 2 CBs in the last 2 years.
Has nothing to do with sticking my neck out.
And they are still struggling to take his spot because one is a sick note and the other isnt good enough. Rojo, the third CB can't get ahead as well
Arsenal have had a long standing interest in him, if they make a move in the summer, we should let him go. Our Centre backs apart from Bailley are very average. I would rate them in this order Bailley, jones, rojo, Smalling, Lindelof blind. I think we should sell Smalling and Blind, even Rojo can go if we can sign replacements. Sign an experience Cb around 29-30 years old and one up and coming one.
You completely ignored the part where he is the one we can rely on more often than the other CBs. When we have other players who can be counted on to do the defending and not be rash in most games chasing the ball when they cant always win it then we wont need Smalling. That isnt the case right now
Yeah, he was real reliable that last game. A centre half diving. The state of him.
Time's up for him. 28 years old, still not up to standards.
This thread is so funny..
Not that I want to defend him in any way but there are so many players in our squad that aren´t performing ATM that picking out Smalling is really strange.
I guess we all need some one to blame for this form.
Here is a list of the the best performers over the last 5 league games, there are 32 different categories of stats that players score point from.
Only 2 United players and Smalling is number 19 and Martial 49 from 50 players. Anyone with two eyes can see that this team is really struggling and Smalling by the looks of it isn´t really the one to blame here..
Not that I want to defend him in any way but there are so many players in our squad that aren´t performing ATM that picking out Smalling is really strange.
I guess we all need some one to blame for this form.
Here is a list of the the best performers over the last 5 league games, there are 32 different categories of stats that players score point from.
Only 2 United players and Smalling is number 19 and Martial 49 from 50 players. Anyone with two eyes can see that this team is really struggling and Smalling by the looks of it isn´t really the one to blame here..
Basically all the arguments for smalling come down to stats. All the knocks against him come from those who watch him play. He is not better than Jones,Bailly or Rojo and if he's better than Lindeloff that means the Swede is a bit shit as well. I don't mid him as a 5th choice CB or maybe at a push even 4th choice but I'd rather we just sell him in the summer and be done with it. Thanks for the good games Chris but i won't miss you.
For a laugh/cry just watch his kicking in this video.
For a laugh/cry just watch his kicking in this video.
He's a better defender than Jones, they both arent first team material for us. Difficult to really assess Rojo, he did well last season but for whatever reason has barely featured this season. Bit strange given our CBs keep making mistakes and yet he struggles to get a game. Bailly is obviously better. Lindeloff seems a write off to me, barely featured despite being fit all season.
This thread is so funny..
Not that I want to defend him in any way but there are so many players in our squad that aren´t performing ATM that picking out Smalling is really strange.
I guess we all need some one to blame for this form.
Here is a list of the the best performers over the last 5 league games, there are 32 different categories of stats that players score point from.
Only 2 United players and Smalling is number 19 and Martial 49 from 50 players. Anyone with two eyes can see that this team is really struggling and Smalling by the looks of it isn´t really the one to blame here..
Bloody love some stats, me. But I'm not sure I can agree with an aggregated list of scores that has Loris Karius in the top 50 but not David De Gea. I guess it would help to know what the categories are they are being scored on?
I'm usually on Smalling's side when the barrage of abuse is hurled at him, but that makes it appear that he is our standout performer by a distance, which can't possibly be true.
EDIT: Didn't spot that it's just over the last 5 games. That would probably explain Karius over De Gea, but still not Smalling over everyone else.
All the people saying Smalling is worse than those three are taking Smalling at his worst and comparing him to those three at their best. All three of those have proven to be far more inconsistent in their time with us so far than Smalling has. Not just in the 'always injured' sense, but even when they have been fit their form has generally gone up and down badly. Bailly for instance - when he's been in good form he's been fantastic which everyone remembers, but he's had two or three periods already where he's been all over the place. People ignore that because he's still the new kid on the block, but if that continues over the next few years then there is no way in hell we can rely on him and he will end up making Smalling look consistent. Rojo has had only one good period in his entire time with us.
We have serious issues if he's our best defender.
I will concede that for a lot of people myself included we are dealing with recency bias. I can accept that people rate players differently. For me though I think he's the worst out of an admittedly not exactly stellar bunch. I would say for a CB who's played for us 8 years and is one of the most senior players in the team to inspire such little confidence is just a huge indictment. Ultimately it comes down to personal opinion so I'm not trying to convince anyone otherwise but it's gonna take a whole lot to make me think Smalling should be starting for us. 4th/5th choice sure but i want better as the 3 main CBs at the club. Someone capable of forward passing and who doesn't completely panic when pressed .
Could have been posted already and I compiled some similar statistics earlier in the thread that showed a similar pattern last year too, but this is all that really needs to be said. I didn't make the table but:
We concede more shots, more goals, and more points when hes on the pitch. His fans can defend his heading ability and one on one tackling all they like but they don't make up for his poor reading of the game and lack of ability on the ball.
We concede more shots, more goals, and more points when hes on the pitch. His fans can defend his heading ability and one on one tackling all they like but they don't make up for his poor reading of the game and lack of ability on the ball.
I pinched this from the comments section on reddit.
Make of that what you will. You could certainly argue that the absolute age the ball takes to come out from the back when he’s playing makes us a lot less potent going forwards.
Of course to make any sense of these stats (and the ones posted by @11101 above) we need to know whether or not he might have played a higher proportion of difficult fixtures than his peers.
Make of that what you will. You could certainly argue that the absolute age the ball takes to come out from the back when he’s playing makes us a lot less potent going forwards.
Of course to make any sense of these stats (and the ones posted by @11101 above) we need to know whether or not he might have played a higher proportion of difficult fixtures than his peers.
Usual pile on here. Unfair imo but can't be arsed going into it again.
But I dont understand why people want him sold. Whether you rate him or not he plays far too many games to be the one tipped to be offloaded. Sell the ones the manager doesn't select for the team
But I dont understand why people want him sold. Whether you rate him or not he plays far too many games to be the one tipped to be offloaded. Sell the ones the manager doesn't select for the team
Haven't rated him for a number of seasons so i somewhat disqualify my opinion as potentially biased but in general he's not a good enough defender to make up for his passing.
I wouldn't sell him as i we need the numbers but as soon as others come back he should be on the bench.
I wouldn't sell him as i we need the numbers but as soon as others come back he should be on the bench.
I feel like we should just call it a day with him, otherwise we will forever be going back and forth whether hes good enough or not. The fact is he's been here nearly a decade and hasn't improved, if its not injures its form if its not that its something else.
What we need going forward is a defender who is intelligent and can read the game, a defender that is composed on the ball and can bring the ball forward, a defender that can also lead the others in defense and give others a sense of security. Smalling doesn't do any of these things well, i feel his cons outweigh his pros, in my opinion the end of the season would be a good time to move him on.
What we need going forward is a defender who is intelligent and can read the game, a defender that is composed on the ball and can bring the ball forward, a defender that can also lead the others in defense and give others a sense of security. Smalling doesn't do any of these things well, i feel his cons outweigh his pros, in my opinion the end of the season would be a good time to move him on.
I hope he doesn't start on Saturday. He reminds me of Jonny Evans, When he was with us.
Agreed, 11101’s stats presumably also include Huddersfield away in Jones’ dropped points but not Lindelof’s (as Jones started and was replaced by Lindelof after 20 minutes) - despite the fact Lindelof cost us the match with two howlers). Doesn’t directly affect Smalling but does show how stats can be misleading.
He hasn’t been this season. Arguably last season too. Jones is probably our most improved player under Mourinho and been the one constant (and usually stand-out performer) in our best CB partnerships over these two seasons.
The fact he played poorly against Spurs shouldn’t wipe the quality of his performances up until then from people’s memories (although, predictably, that seems to be happening)
Lindeloff's blunder against Huddersfield impacted Smalling record.
Lukaku's blunder against City
Jones leaving his Marker against Chelsea (maybe wrong, haven't checked again)
Jones pathetically poor performance against Spurs
Smalling also played in all these games and we lost the games because of Jones or other CBs mistakes.
This is where I’m at. He’s so bad on the ball it hurts my eyes. Don’t care about this «but, but, he’s a defender», he doesn’t have the bare minimum required to play regularly for us.
That’s irrelevant. When we have an effective CB partnership these errors happen less often. Because an effective CB partnership takes responsibility for organising the defence and spreads a sense of calm and confidence at the back. Smalling seems to have the exact opposite effect. Which would help explain why these stats are so damning when he’s involved.
Wouldn't disagree, and I generally think Smalling is ok.
You have seen the stats and working your way to fit that narrative.
Check the mistakes and whether it was done because of CB next to them or lack of concentration.
Lindeloff couldn't head the ball clear against Huddersfield.
Lukaku couldn't clear the ball from set piece. Well he cleared it to City players.
Jones went AWOL against City and was in no mans land.
Jones lost header within fist 5-6 seconds of the game and tried to clear the ball so awkwardly.
What you said is true if the goals conceded was due to miscommunication between CBs or someone breaking the offside trap or anything that actually involves 2 CBs working as a pair.
Every goal conceded (apart from, arguably, 20-30 yard screamers) involves the CB working as a pair. Re-read my post for an explanation why this is the case.
Could have been posted already and I compiled some similar statistics earlier in the thread that showed a similar pattern last year too, but this is all that really needs to be said. I didn't make the table but:
We concede more shots, more goals, and more points when hes on the pitch. His fans can defend his heading ability and one on one tackling all they like but they don't make up for his poor reading of the game and lack of ability on the ball.
Smalling has played, I believe, against every single one of the top teams. The other combinations generally played during the runs of matches where we played lower teams. I don't believe it's a deliberate thing from Jose, it's just how the injuries have fallen, but it will obviously impact on these kinds of stats.
I have given the breakdown of the goals. Not sure how anyone can blame Smalling for Lukaku failing to clear the ball or Jones's inability to use his left leg, or lindeloff failing to head the ball.
- Status