[Pexbo]

That should kill any discussion from now on. When there's no or very little progress going into a 5th season, that's usually more than enough to cut all ties with a player.

I have to agree to be honest. There was huge potential there when he arrived and there still is huge potential. I just don't think he has the capacity or body to recognise it which means it's absolutely pointless sticking with him.

 

[Loublaze]

I have to agree to be honest. There was huge potential there when he arrived and there still is huge potential. I just don't think he has the capacity or body to recognise it which means it's absolutely pointless sticking with him.

Can say the same about Jones, even if he's younger. No progression whatsoever

 

[Edgar Allan Pillow]

That should kill any discussion from now on. When there's no or very little progress going into a 5th season, that's usually more than enough to cut all ties with a player.

Meh, we had Nani and Anderson for ever it seems and there was always this 'potential' argued upon. fwiw, I still have a little belief that Smalling will come good.

 

[RuudTom83]

The problem for Smalling is yes! he has been here 5 seasons and is not a youngster anymore, but due to SAF playing him (plus Jones) out of position in the later years...this is in fact his first season as a CB.

I fear for all three of Evans/Smalling/Jones because LVG doesn't have any attachment to them so poor performances like Saturday will be what he judges Smalling on and not what he did 5 years ago in a Fulham shirt etc.

 

[Successful]

Send that 12 year old looking piece of garbage back to the 3rd division where he came from and where he belongs before he causes another catastrophe. I'm getting really fed up with his sad face walking down the side line.

 

[Loublaze]

Send that 12 year old looking piece of garbage back to the 3rd division where he came from and where he belongs before he causes another catastrophe. I'm getting really fed up with his sad face walking down the side line.

This is beyond childish.

 

[Pexbo]

The problem for Smalling is yes! he has been here 5 seasons and is not a youngster anymore, but due to SAF playing him (plus Jones) out of position in the later years...this is in fact his first season as a CB.

I fear for all three of Evans/Smalling/Jones because LVG doesn't have any attachment to them so poor performances like Saturday will be what he judges Smalling on and not what he did 5 years ago in a Fulham shirt etc.

You've got to ask yourself why he played them there. It was clearly for their development as much as "because we didn't have another backup RB." He felt they couldn't be trusted just yet so he stuck with Rio and Vida even while they were declining, although their decline steepened rapidly when he left. If they proved themselves more and had a steeper learning curve he would have trusted them at CB far more often just like he did with Evans when he was younger. Evans as a 19-24 year old performed at a far more consistent and higher level than either of them did.

 

[wiz4231]

Send that 12 year old looking piece of garbage back to the 3rd division where he came from and where he belongs before he causes another catastrophe. I'm getting really fed up with his sad face walking down the side line.

Talk about being childish, this has to be 1 of the worst comments ive seen on the forum.
FYI that's the first time Smalling has been sent off in 151 appearances. He has never has a straight red in his career. That was his first red card.

 

[Chesterlestreet]

Meh, we had Nani and Anderson for ever it seems and there was always this 'potential' argued upon. fwiw, I still have a little belief that Smalling will come good.

Aye. And I have to admit that I'm picking up some Nani/Ando/Clev vibes from these defenders of ours. Unfair, probably - but there you go.

 

[Chesterlestreet]

You've got to ask yourself why he played them there. It was clearly for their development as much as "because we didn't have another backup RB." He felt they couldn't be trusted just yet so he stuck with Rio and Vida even while they were declining, although their decline steepened rapidly when he left. If they proved themselves more and had a steeper learning curve he would have trusted them at CB far more often just like he did with Evans when he was younger. Evans as a 19-24 year old performed at a far more consistent and higher level than either of them did.

I'd agree with that, definitely. Also, Evans' peak thus far was significantly higher than anything Smalling or Jones have shown. The fact is that Evans looked like he was right on the verge of becoming a top CB at one time.

It can all be explained (away) if one makes an effort, of course. Injuries, never getting a good run of games, being played out of position, etc. You can only persist with these explanations for so long, though, before they start looking like mere excuses.

And, yes - Fergie often purposely played youngsters out of position (within reason - a CB getting games at fullback in order to gain experience and develop his game is hardly unheard of, and shouldn't be detrimental to his development).

 

[Sylar]

The problem for Smalling is yes! he has been here 5 seasons and is not a youngster anymore, but due to SAF playing him (plus Jones) out of position in the later years...this is in fact his first season as a CB.

Biggest problem for me is the whole playing people out of position. This is why I thought Smalling and Jones should have been loaned out if we were not going to phase out Rio and Vidic. Injuries didnt help but I think we didnt make use of the loan system well enough for these two. I actually think Evans should have been out on loan for another year too.

Given CBs can last until their mid 30s, and most go into their prime around 29 or so, I think its obvious why they havent developed. Players need to play consistently as well in their own position. (and stay injury free)

 

[izec]

Smalling will be 25 in a few weeks. Time to sell him. Sometimes good and sometimes bad, but the guy will never be good enough. I always felt that Jones is the better defender, i still think he is. I dont know why people say it is overreaction, i always said he isnt good enough. If Fletcher and Cleverley arent good enough, Smalling isnt too. Just because some have high expectations or see something in him that others dont, it doesnt mean he should be given time. Next year the same things will happen again with Smalling, brainfarts and injuries. No, he had enough time, just like all the other players we sold and werent good enough. Time to get our money back.

 

[Virtuoso]

I was as frustrated as anyone at that red card, however some of the reactions from people on here (and our fans in general) is very disappointing and hugely exaggerated. He is nowhere near the type of liability that people are making out. Some seem to have convinced themselves that he's a red card waiting to happen - well, that was his first sending off in professional football to my knowledge (which is quite impressive for a young CB though he chose the worst possible time to get hist first red).

 

[Sylar]

Has he said what he was thinking regarding the first booking? Was it a case of him thinking we were on the attack and lost the ball into Harts hand and had to stop a counter? I couldnt quite see it as it looked like we were 4-2 advantage at the back anyway.

I agree that a lot of the reactions to him have been exaggerated and disappointing. Some even saying he should never ever play for us again. Its as if hes the first person to ever do something like that.

 

[Loublaze]

Smalling will be 25 in a few weeks. Time to sell him. Sometimes good and sometimes bad, but the guy will never be good enough. I always felt that Jones is the better defender, i still think he is. I dont know why people say it is overreaction, i always said he isnt good enough. If Fletcher and Cleverley arent good enough, Smalling isnt too. Just because some have high expectations or see something in him that others dont, it doesnt mean he should be given time. Next year the same things will happen again with Smalling, brainfarts and injuries. No, he had enough time, just like all the other players we sold and werent good enough. Time to get our money back.

Jones is a brainless defender who only acts on instinct, we spent 18M on him too! Either we've failed to develop these players properly or they're just not good enough. Evans should be first to go. Enough is enough

 

[RuudTom83]

I don't believe anyone is suggesting that Smalling would now be a World Class CB if he hadn't been played out of position so often.

I just hope the development of McNair and Blackett is handled differently to that of Smalling and Jones.

@Sylar I agree, and thankfully Blind hasn't been moved around in the same manner.

Let players sink or swim in their preferred positions! if the team has no room to blood a youngster then loan them out.

 

[Sylar]

The last sentence is what I think a lot of people would probably agree with @RuudTom83

It could be argued we havent "properly" developed Evans, Smalling, Jones, Oshea, Cleverley, Welbeck, Macheda.

Some have even argued Rooney (and theres a case for that but I guess his development was sacrificed to get the best out of Ronaldo). Probably for another thread, but given how most if not all of them started, and how theyre looking, it seems like wasted talent due to injuries, playing out of position, not playing at all, bad loan spells.

 

[Chesterlestreet]

I was as frustrated as anyone at that red card, however some of the reactions from people on here (and our fans in general) is very disappointing and hugely exaggerated. He is nowhere near the type of liability that people are making out. Some seem to have convinced themselves that he's a red card waiting to happen - well, that was his first sending off in professional football to my knowledge (which is quite impressive for a young CB though he chose the worst possible time to get hist first red).

Yeah, well that's just silly - and isn't supported by the facts at all. The problem clearly is not that he's a red card waiting to happen. The frustration on display is more general, I think, at least the frustration of more reasonable fans. It's the fact that we don't have a set of defenders we can rely upon - and Smalling's brain fart sort of underlines that.

 

[saivet]

Not that it's much of a defence but I think yesterday was a bit of a one off from Smalling. His error yesterday wasn't bad defending but 2 acts of stupidity. I don't recall him having many braindead moments during his time here.

 

[Kakeru]

I was as frustrated as anyone at that red card, however some of the reactions from people on here (and our fans in general) is very disappointing and hugely exaggerated. He is nowhere near the type of liability that people are making out. Some seem to have convinced themselves that he's a red card waiting to happen - well, that was his first sending off in professional football to my knowledge (which is quite impressive for a young CB though he chose the worst possible time to get hist first red).

With all due respect, that red card was, as the old saying says, the straw that broke the camel's back. He will be 25 soon, so there's not much hope nor room for improvement left if he is still average at that age, and you combine that red card to all the poor performances he accumulated over the last few years (even without a red card).

 

[ZDwyr]

With all due respect, that red card was, as the old saying says, the straw that broke the camel's back. He will be 25 soon, so there's not much hope nor room for improvement left if he is still average at that age, and you combine that red card to all the poor performances he accumulated over the last few years (even without a red card).

He's better than average defensively. A lot of those poor performances came when he was playing as a RB. As a CB he has been quite good.

 

[Phil Duck]

This whole "playing out of position" thing is one of the most ridiculous things this forum has came out with during the past five years.

Lot of players have switched positions and adopted different roles through their carrers without that being detrimental to their development as players or their importance in a system.

 

[Phil Duck]

With all due respect, that red card was, as the old saying says, the straw that broke the camel's back. He will be 25 soon, so there's not much hope nor room for improvement left if he is still average at that age, and you combine that red card to all the poor performances he accumulated over the last few years (even without a red card).

According to who? Rio Ferdinand wasn't exactly the best defender in England at the age of 25, he was clumsy and did a lof of mistakes during his first years with us, just from 2006 he became the defender we needed.

 

[Kakeru]

According to who? Rio Ferdinand wasn't exactly the best defender in England at the age of 25, he was clumsy and did a lof of mistakes during his first years with us, just from 2006 he became the defender we needed.

You forgot one detail: he was already Leeds United's captain by that age. At that time when Leeds were still respectable as a team, he had already shown that he was capable of picking himself up. Into his third season with United (2004-05), he earned enough credentials to wear the armband a few times when Roy Keane was deemed not fit enough to play. I just never saw that ability of picking oneself up with Smalling and I don't think we ever will.

 

[Eric'sCollar]

Wasn't on here yesterday and kind of glad, because I can only imagine the shit Smalling received. Admittedly, a lot of criticism is deserved, it was as stupid a sending off as you will see but at the end of the day, he has made a mistake, that's all. He hasn't cost our season, he hasn't disgraced the club like some want to believe.

For me, it shouldn't be a debate about his future. The Jones, Evans, Smalling debate goes around in circles and is a never ending debate. It changes on every performance. Last week Smalling was at the top of the trio with a good performance against Chelsea, now he is at the bottom of the list with the send off against City.

As stupid as it was and as disappointed as I am with him, he will have my full support the next time he plays for us, something I worry he won't have by many judging by the reaction.

 

[Shamwow]

This whole "playing out of position" thing is one of the most ridiculous things this forum has came out with during the past five years.

Lot of players have switched positions and adopted different roles through their carrers without that being detrimental to their development as players or their importance in a system.

That doesn't mean we should expect it from all players.

 

[Red_toad]

He's better than average defensively. A lot of those poor performances came when he was playing as a RB. As a CB he has been quite good.

Agree, when he's played centrehalf this season, he's usually been our best defender. Seems the lad is this seasons whipping boy. Yep made a mistake & first red card of his United career, in a game we would most likely have lost even if it ended 11 v 11, but let that not stop the critics spouting the same bile over & over again. Sack Fergie, sell Giggs brigade is out in full force!

 

[Red_toad]

This whole "playing out of position" thing is one of the most ridiculous things this forum has came out with during the past five years.

Lot of players have switched positions and adopted different roles through their carrers without that being detrimental to their development as players or their importance in a system.

I can remember Rio moving into CDM position and being gash & getting a red card.

I think you're failing to grasp at how many players simply cannot perform to usual levels if "shoved out on the wing". Yes a select few can play numerous role. The vast majority are specialists in their position & it affects their performances if they swap roles. Rooney is a prime example, can do ok on the wing & ok in midfield but he's simply a better striker. Smalling is a very good central defender & should be used as such, I don't see Van Gaal playing him out of position and obviously rates him or he'd be lining up for La Arse....

 

[Loublaze]

I have a question...why exactly do many United fans call Smalling dumb? I personally think it stems from his costume 'incident' but how does this transfer over to football intelligence (it doesn't)? And also, is there any other negative publicity he generated off the field besides the costume thing?

 

[Chesterlestreet]

He's better than average defensively. A lot of those poor performances came when he was playing as a RB. As a CB he has been quite good.

For that matter he was often solid enough in a purely defensive sense at RB too. He's not easy to get past - very good in that sense, nobody will deny that. The problem is that he needs to develop his game beyond the pure brick wall quality - which is great in itself, but simply not enough for a top player in this day and age.

 

[Chesterlestreet]

This whole "playing out of position" thing is one of the most ridiculous things this forum has came out with during the past five years.

Lot of players have switched positions and adopted different roles through their carrers without that being detrimental to their development as players or their importance in a system.

Absolutely. It is rarely a problem at all if the player in question is good enough. It's a matter of developing your game, improving your understanding, etc. That was always Fergie's idea, at least - and it's hardly madness if you ask me.

 

[anver]

How to dribble like Smalling:

 

[MPTutd]

Is he back from suspension for the Arsenal game?

 

[Rossa]

Is he back from suspension for the Arsenal game?

Should be - he only got a one match ban.

 

[Bwuk]

Yep I'd assume he'll be available and starting.

 

[soapythecat]

And he should start against Arsenal. If he manages to get back from International duty fit, he will be our best fit defender. The red was a silly mistake but his first red for United I think, regardless, he isn't the first player to have made a mistake that has cost us - and won't be the last.
His pace will be needed against a pacey Arsenal side.

 

[Devil may care]

Should be - he only got a one match ban.

Nice boost for Arsenal.

 

[Ekeke]

Nice boost for Arsenal.

Would be if we sold him to them like they wanted

 

[Devil may care]

Would be if we sold him to them like they wanted

Then it would be a nice boost for us!

 

[Walrus]

And he should start against Arsenal. If he manages to get back from International duty fit, he will be our best fit defender. The red was a silly mistake but his first red for United I think, regardless, he isn't the first player to have made a mistake that has cost us - and won't be the last.
His pace will be needed against a pacey Arsenal side.

First red in his career I believe.

Silly mistake, one that the fans need to get over.