If ever United needed Smalling to stay injury free it is NOW! I pray he can have a mini run in the team at least before his next spell out injured.
12
Season Average Rating
- Appearances
- 29
- Clean sheets
- 8
- Goals
- 4
- Assists
- 0
- Yellow cards
- 3
- Red cards
- 1
Yeah I remember me likening young OShea with Thuram once. How wrong I was....
Also it seem that defenders are taking more time to mature. In Baresi/Maldini time they would reach a level of consistency at age 20. By the time Vidic/Rio came to scene it became 25 and nowadays you can barely find U30 defenders whom you're absolutely sure that he'll be consistency good, week in week out. The era of Vidic, Terry, Puyol, Rio and co is phasing out and those taunted to replace them such as Pique. Bonucci, Ranocchia and Evans had sort of dissapointed.
I fear that with so many rules around things are getting more difficult for defenders to do their job. I've recently watched the Gentile-Maradona duel during the World cup of 82. Most of the things Gentile did to keep the Argentinian at bay would earn him a straight red.
He's our best out and out defender. So glad he's available for this game
Yeah I remember me likening young OShea with Thuram once. How wrong I was....
Also it seem that defenders are taking more time to mature. In Baresi/Maldini time they would reach a level of consistency at age 20. By the time Vidic/Rio came to scene it became 25 and nowadays you can barely find U30 defenders whom you're absolutely sure that he'll be consistency good, week in week out. The era of Vidic, Terry, Puyol, Rio and co is phasing out and those taunted to replace them such as Pique. Bonucci, Ranocchia and Evans had sort of dissapointed.
I fear that with so many rules around things are getting more difficult for defenders to do their job. I've recently watched the Gentile-Maradona duel during the World cup of 82. Most of the things Gentile did to keep the Argentinian at bay would earn him a straight red.
Some interesting observations and well founded conclusions here. I feel the next generation of CBs is going to be much better. We already have youngsters like Verane, Marquinhos, Mangala, Zouma, Papadopoulos, Eder Balanta, Laporte, Rudiger, Doria, Stefano Denswil all U-21s and part of the first team setup at thier clubs already.
He's played in 30 or more games in three of his 4 completed seasons with us. The other, 2012-13, he had fewer appearances mainly due to Rafael and Rio's unexpected good health and the need to share the chances that were available with Jones. I agree with your main thesis - he's already a very accomplished CB and is likely to get better with more consistent playing time.
As far as his "brain farts" in the City game are concerned - I have a somewhat contrarian view. Blocking Hart's clearance was a necessary act - it prevented a possible 1 on 1 for Aguero with the defense stranded upfield. Having said that, he was badly let down by the players who should have been making sure that Hart didn't get into position to make a quick kick. What he did was no different from a midfielder grabbing an opponent to slow down the transition after a turnover - we'd all say "good foul, he took one for the team" when the inevitable booking happened. (In summary, he did what he did because he is smart, not because he is stupid.) Which makes him unlucky that Valencia and Januzaj would blow their defensive duties a few minutes later and leave him having to try to clean up the mess. His tackle was obviously a misjudgement - who would have thought Milner was that fast - but it's nothing that we didn't see Vidic do innumerable times. The question is, what was his alternative - Milner was either through on the keeper or laying the ball back for an onrushing Aguero, either way a probable goal. So, overall, I'm more of the "sh!t happens" school of thought rather than the "let's tar and feather him and ride him out of town on a rail" school.
How about do some defending. Smalling is quick, Milner wasn't about to play the ball first time.
It's a harsh critism, but Smalling is a very good defender 1 on 1, make Milner beat you. Its a thing with most EPL grown defenders though, they go to ground far too quickly, how about stand the attacker up and make him try and beat you 1 on 1.
He made the challenge because he saw Milner commit a heavy touch and overestimated his own reach in the spur of the moment. If that were not the case, he wouldn't have gone overboard trying to obstruct the City man. With the angle he was confronting Milner at, it was unlikely he could adjust his course efficiently enough and stand him up at the byline.
I think that's right. The other point is that this way he's committing the indiscretion (if that's what it turns out to be - as indeed it did) outside the penalty area. If he tries to adjust course at that speed he's likely to finish up barging the player in the box - there's really no way to slow down to get into 1 on 1 mode without Milner being straight past because he's got a much better angle into the box.
[Edit: The bottom line is that Smalling should probably have been better off busting a gut to get to the near post rather than trying to intercept the man - but without 20-20 hindsight I can't see many defenders doing that (and I'm not sure I want them playing for me if they do).]
I try to see the positive of most players that pull on the United shirt but, those 2 yellows were just daft and no one else but, his own fault.
The first, he wasn't looking to stop a 1 on 1, he was just ambling back and lazily got in the way, it wasn't like he rushed to stop the kick.
The 2nd - any players already on a yellow is going to not rush in if they are thinking, he could have stopped earlier and stood him up but, he just went balls to the wall at Milner. Knowing he was on a yellow he should from the start not to go in the way he did. Both just dumb dumb mistakes but, he will have learned and it's a matter of him now not letting them play on his mind when he steps out for United again.
The first, he wasn't looking to stop a 1 on 1, he was just ambling back and lazily got in the way, it wasn't like he rushed to stop the kick.
The 2nd - any players already on a yellow is going to not rush in if they are thinking, he could have stopped earlier and stood him up but, he just went balls to the wall at Milner. Knowing he was on a yellow he should from the start not to go in the way he did. Both just dumb dumb mistakes but, he will have learned and it's a matter of him now not letting them play on his mind when he steps out for United again.
I think you could make a case for any of our 3 senior CB's with that claim, they are all much of a muchness in quality.
He clearly did it because himself and Rojo were both well out of position
What on earth is a out and out defender?
We need Smalling at his best on Saturday, big, strong and consistent! I hope we can count on him. It's time for him to stake his place in the team for good or be gone in the Summer.
What on earth is a out and out defender?
Someone measured on their defending, not their passing or how popular you are
How did he do for England?
Well they conceded one goal which Smalling couldn't really do anything about, so defensively he was solid (I want to say "as usual"...). Didn't look entirely confident in possession I thought, couple of misplaced passes but nothing risky that really gave an opportunity to Scotland.
I would say it is a game he can build on for the Arsenal game for sure.
Ah okay. Good to hear I guess.
Yup, Robertson had a sweet long shot that Smalling couldn't really do much about. The fact that, from what I read, he appeared untroubled, otherwise, and escaped injury means that we won't be that lightweight in defence, at least.
What on earth is a out and out defender?
Out-and-out means outright, utter, absolute. In this case i'm saying Smalling is our most natural defender.
I don't see how it refers to popularity at all, it means the first part, a defender who is good at defending but poor on the ball.
I think he'll be alright if we have Blind/Carrick in front of him.
Could be more to it also. Some claim that Vidic was the better out-and-out defender of him and Rio, but that Rio's technique, pace, athleticism and passing made him a better CB still.
Rio was a better defender than Vidic. He could tackle, head, great positionally and rarely made an actual mistake. He literally had no weakness from around 07 to 10 maybe 11.
He went about 8 months (29 full games, over 4000mins of football) without commuting a foul. For a defender that is just ridiculous and tells you everything about his defending ability.
Preaching to the choir, mate. I think Rio is the best and most complete CB I've seen, but there are still quite a few who argue that Vidic, or Terry for that matter, were better at the defending bits like tackle and heading the ball. Imo, that's probably down to them making more sliding tackles. Vidic and Terry were better in the air, especially in attack, but Rio was much, much better at positioning and awareness defensively.
Not committing to any fouls does tell a lot about him; he rarely had to make a tackle as he just simply intercepted the ball. Either he let the attacker run into space only to gobble up that space with a few long strides of his to nick the ball away, or he would get ahead of them or just shield the ball out. I also think his understanding with VDS in particular was outstanding.
Smalling has many of Rio's attributes, but he lacks his composure on the ball and his passing abilities, and he's just not as good on any of the other attributes either - still that doesn't make him bad at any rate. (he's better in the air)
haha was also asking this question.
if anything like it used to be then we'll have smalling back on form for 2 or 3 games, and then finally he is our best defender again, and got....ermmm injured again(hope not)
Aye, I wasn't arguing, just backing up your point. Obviously the records are shared (IMO) between Rio, Vida and VDS but also the fullbacks and Carrick but I keep meaning to pull them all up: the clean sheets, the UCL home defensive record ect ect. So much is said of Barcelona's midfield and Madrids attack it's a travesty that United's defence of 07-11 isn't remembered the same way.
No chance was Vidic better than Rio.
Both Vidic and Rio were commanding in different ways IMO - Vidic just needed to look at the opponent but Rio exuded a calm superiority. We have neither in our current defence!
I agree that defence was brilliant all round. It seems like an eternity ago now.
That's true. United's defense all round in that period was immense. Rio and Vidic were terrific, but as you said, the fullbacks were too. Evra was at his peak, and at that time, he was truly outstanding - brilliant in attack and solid in defense. Neville was mostly solid without having the extreme abilities of Evra. Didn't Brown also fare pretty well for a season or so as fullback?
Carrick got unnoticed by pretty much everyone, even United supporters. I think it was Scholes who praised him, but in his usual manner; it was said with four words or so, so few actually took notice.
2007/2008 double season was a rock at the back.
I remember Brown's performance against Barca in the semi final!! Him, rio and vidic were immense! Never seen a better defensive performance since! God I miss those days!
I look back back on that defence with far more appreciation than I do of the attacking days of Rooney, Ronaldo, Tevez et al. They were names on paper that excelled as individuals. Our defense was a cohesive unit of world class players.
Also: Ferdinand's peak for us > Ronaldo's peak for us.
And: despite Terry being recognised with the awards, Ferdinand at his best was two or three levels above him in quality and performance at their best.
Also: Ferdinand's peak for us > Ronaldo's peak for us.
And: despite Terry being recognised with the awards, Ferdinand at his best was two or three levels above him in quality and performance at their best.
Rio better than Vidic? Rio better than Ronaldo? Wow. Just wow.
Between Stam leaving and Vidic joining/settling the United defence was very poor. It was poor again when Vidic injured his knee and poor since he left.
Evans, Smalling and Jones looked excellent next to Vidic. All looked significantly worse next to anyone else. You could also say the same for Rio (he looked significantly better playing next to Vidic). He was incredibly talented but was unreliable and error prone. It was no surprise that Fergie quickly shelved his plans to make him captain.
I honestly don't think Rio is in Vidic's league.
Between Stam leaving and Vidic joining/settling the United defence was very poor. It was poor again when Vidic injured his knee and poor since he left.
Evans, Smalling and Jones looked excellent next to Vidic. All looked significantly worse next to anyone else. You could also say the same for Rio (he looked significantly better playing next to Vidic). He was incredibly talented but was unreliable and error prone. It was no surprise that Fergie quickly shelved his plans to make him captain.
I honestly don't think Rio is in Vidic's league.
Put that defense with De Gea and Shaw we would not concede at all.
Rio is the most technically gifted defender Manchester United has ever had. He's on the level of Nesta, Maldini and other great italian defenders.
Vidic was very good, but based his game a lot on positioning, strength, speed, he was the perfect complement to Ferdinand.
Terry does'nt come close.
Vidic was very good, but based his game a lot on positioning, strength, speed, he was the perfect complement to Ferdinand.
Terry does'nt come close.
One might argue that Rio's contribution to the team was at least as important as that of Ronaldo. Our defense back then was brilliant, no doubt. The team was of course also brilliant.
I always thought Rio was better than Terry. Terry would always be exposed by quick and tricky players. I still remember Torres' first match against United when the commentator said "and now Torres is going to show what he is made of with his tremendous pace" and then Rio just comes in and destroys him for pace and strength - those were the days.
Never ever?!
I also prefer Vidic but to say Rio is not in Vidic's league is wrong, imo they were the best defenders of the PL era you could make a case for either being better to be honest, not that much between them.
Really? Rio was not made captain because at that time he started to suffer too many injuries; Ferguson wanted someone who played more or less every match as captain.
Vidic was also made twice the player he was because of Rio, no doubt. He struggled with certain players, even at his prime. Rio didn't.
No, it would be awesome! We might need Gandalf in the middle, but why not, eh?