Ramos doesn't belong here
Chiellini and Bonucci
- Thread starter Pogue Mahone
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) and Imran (@Annihilate Now!) look forward to a new life under Ruben Amorim. What system will we be playing? What players will impress? and how will it all go? We also say goodbye to Ruud Van Nistelrooy and review United's 3-0 win at home against Leicester City.
Ramos doesn't belong here
Cannavarno should be held at the top stage too, maybe for not his whole career but peak him was definitely there, imo, also Paul mcgrath,
What makes you say that? He’s definitely a warrior, in the mould of all of those players, barring maybe Rio.
He is a warrior I guess, but he's not as good at defending as any of those others at their peak
Oh I see, fair enough. His defending is questionable, but it’s hard to argue with the record of someone who’s won as much as he has at club and international level. His defending may not have been as good as the others, but I think he was just as important to his teams.
brilliant.Another ref could easily have given a red for that. That kind of foul is barely seen in much rougher games like NFL and rugby.
It's being passed over for numerous reasons that show how selective and hypocritical a watching audience can be. Chiellini 'a loveable rogue with a good heart', being right up there.
Both Bonucci and Chiellini played really dirty throughout the game. They could have been booked much earlier if England players rolled on the ground like Neymar. Yet people call this experience because a 70-year-old centre back pair winning a trophy is a touching story.
Remember Vidic against Spurs once, someone had been sent off and so Spurs were dominating and constantly sending crosses in to Crouch/some other tall striker. Of course Vidic was great, but it also looked like he lived for it.
Carvallho-Terry
Sad but true
Sad but true
Hansen-Lawrenson
Charlton-Hunter
Love them. Amazing pair. One of the best in history.
Italy always had great pairs. Baresi-Costacurta, Maldini-Nesta, Cannavaro-Nesta. Outside Italy only Rio-Vida pair was on that level
Italy always had great pairs. Baresi-Costacurta, Maldini-Nesta, Cannavaro-Nesta. Outside Italy only Rio-Vida pair was on that level
Haha I was waiting for someone to burst the bubble. I love how you win the game on penalties and you get unequivocal praise even though you conceded the same number of goals as the other side.
Cause they have more possession and shots, people say.
I wouldn't say the pair are dirty but they certainly take it to the wire. The referee in the final is renowned for letting the game flow. So why wouldn't you take a few risks?
You can see as the more the game went on the more these two grew into it, not only physically dominating Kane and Mount but also mentally dominating the opposition. Sadly Harry Kane shows none of that kind of passion or in the trenches mentality.
They get the praise for the performances in the whole tournament. There's no bubble to burst.
Watching them defend is an art.
It's true that Kane, as a captain and as a target for being repeatedly fouled, should have done more about it. The foul on Grealish could have easily been a red if Kane and co put more pressure on the ref, instead Chiellini was the first to approach the ref.
That said, I wouldn't call this the art of defending. The art of defending doesn't require repeated fouls and dirty tricks to dominate the opposition. Imagine Ramos pulled Saka's shirt like Chiellini did, I'm pretty sure the public opinion would be different.
From recent times, I prefer Godin in terms of a pure defender to either of these two. For me, he's the best proper defender of this generation.
Maybe not silk and grit like Chiellini and Bonnuci, but Hummels-Boateng was a great partnership at Bayern and Germany. Both were good with the ball but I think Hummels was the more aggressive tackler of the two and pressed more.
It's hilarious to see people undermining the pair, if these were English and half as good, these same people would have dirty knees and bruised soft pallets.
I guess they were lucky to be playing against upstanding citizens like Kane and Sterling, who wouldn’t dream of diving?
Pull the other one. The reason they weren’t booked much earlier was because of the excellent referee, who saw through Kane’s standard antics of backing in and flinging himself to the ground and let the defenders do their job.
Yes, It's funny how the number of goals conceded in the final is brought up with a straight face when England were defending with 7 players.
There’s not a referee on the planet who would give a red card for a shirt pull, other than denying a clear goal-scoring opportunity. That’s the only possible reason Chiellini could have seen red. Implying it was a violent enough foul to send him off is ridiculous.
That's the difference between a good defender and a great defender, he made an error there, lost concentration tried to see the ball out, but there was too much space for that, Saka ran around him, but he was aware of the situation and knew he can bring Saka down at that part of the pitch. It's never anything more than a yellow.
The excellent referee you mentioned actually gave many of the fouls. It's just that he didn't show the card. There's nothing to do with Kane's standard antics.
And not all fouls are yellow cards. He’s arguably the best referee in the game right now. He would have booked them if they deserved it. They didn’t deserve it. Neymar’s play-acting would have made no difference because Kane - as usual - spent most of the match pretending to be the victim of brutal assaults. It’s what he does. The referee thankfully wasn’t buying it.
Ref was outstanding, he really let the game flow and didnt buy any dives. In one instance Sterling tried to pull his leg under Bounucci's so it would seem he was fouled in the box, ref wasnt having any of that.
Because you see horse collar tackles regularly in football, or even the NFL or rugby? And there's no reason at all it's become an international meme? If it were a common thing there wouldn't be the uproar about it that there has been. Collaring someone can easily be seen as violent conduct.
"The horse-collar tackle is an American football maneuver in which a defender tackles another player by grabbing the back collar or the back-inside of an opponent's shoulder pads and pulling the ball carrier directly downward violently in order to pull his feet from underneath him. The technique is most closely associated with Pro Bowl safety Roy Williams.
After being blamed for a series of major injuries in the 2004 season, the horse-collar tackle was banned from the NFLduring the 2005 off-season. The rule forbidding it is often referred to in the press as "The Roy Williams Rule".[1] The rule, with modifications, was adopted in college football in 2008 and high school football in 2009."
"
Risks[edit]
The horse-collar is particularly dangerous due to the awkward position of the player being tackled, who will often fall backward in a twisting motion with one or both legs trapped under the weight of his body. This is exacerbated if the player's foot gets caught in the turf and by the additional weight of the defender. Potential injuries include sprains or tears to ligaments in the knees and ankles (including the ACL and MCL), and fractures of the tibia and fibula.[3] Smith, for instance, was effectively sidelined for two seasons after a horse-collar tackle by Williams broke his right tibia.
The ban states that a horse-collar tackle is an open-field tackle in which a defender uses the shoulder pads or jersey to immediately bring a ball carrier down. The term "open field" means that horse-collar tackles committed near the line of scrimmage will be allowed."
If you think a 'tackle' that has a full wiki page and a breakdown of the potential damage it can cause is not potentially red-worthy then you either haven't considered the potential fallout from it, or you don't care to. Saka being left in a broken heap would've engendered a different response from some who found the foul to be amusing and 'just Chiellini, the lovable rogue'.
It's a very easy red for another ref. Antics like that should not be condoned or marked down to nothing serious.
Right, so by your turn of phrase, Chiellini showed he is a good defender there and not a great one? On another day, he'd have taken his team down to 10-men for that foul.
Thats great, but still doesn't change the fact that ref's do not send off players for shirt pulls.
Nope, he's a great one, because it's not like great defenders don't lose focus, they do, but they manage the situation by their awareness and quickness of thought.
That's the sign of a great defender, that a lapse in concentration does not result in anything substantial for the opposition.
You’re discussing a different type of football. Chiellini plays association football. I’ve no interest (nor, I’m sure, does he) in the other type.
Also. Saka wasn’t wearing shoulder pads.
On another day, playing a different sport?
It is ridiculous to suggest that should have been anything other than a yellow by the rules. It is really just not debatable.
Jorginho could have gone, perhaps, but that would have been harsh, especially as Phillips put in a pretty much identical challenge earlier in the match.
The ref had a very good game. Calm and controlled, talked to the players, made the right calls.
Jorginho could have gone, perhaps, but that would have been harsh, especially as Phillips put in a pretty much identical challenge earlier in the match.
The ref had a very good game. Calm and controlled, talked to the players, made the right calls.
Pretty sure slide tackling is also outlawed in the NFL too.
Can't go up for a header either!
It was a shirt pull and shirt pull is always a yellow. Always.
I love Bonucci and Chiellini.
What the hell happened that year Bonucci went to play for AC Milan (well below Juventus' level at the time) and then came back?
Would be like if city sold Dias to Spurs and then signed him back 1 year later. You get some weird transfers in Italy. Anyone know the reason? Seems bizarre.
What the hell happened that year Bonucci went to play for AC Milan (well below Juventus' level at the time) and then came back?
Would be like if city sold Dias to Spurs and then signed him back 1 year later. You get some weird transfers in Italy. Anyone know the reason? Seems bizarre.
He mentioned in an interview it was due to disagreements with the club, but which he obviously meant Allegri.