Oh we were bad. We were not good enough. Boehly is worse than many owners because he wanted to buy too many players and failed.
Chelsea 2022/2023 | THIS IS LAST YEARS THREAD YOU NUMPTIES
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) and Imran (@Annihilate Now!) are here to discuss three 1-1 draws.
The first got us knocked out of the FA Cup, the next puts us in a good position in our Round of 16 Europa League game, and the latest was an actual decent performance against Arsenal at Old Trafford.
All hopes for the season now rest on the Europa League - does Amorim have the squad to win it?
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Oh we were bad. We were not good enough. Boehly is worse than many owners because he wanted to buy too many players and failed.
The main difference is probably that under Boehly's leadership everything seems to be out in the open while Marina ran a tight ship and more often than not links only started appearing when things were already at an advanced stage. That doesn't necessarily mean this current approach is any more scatter gun than under Marina, just that at the very least it's a lot more public. I'm certain Marina made many inquiries and perhaps even bids for players behind the scenes that just never came out publicly because that's how she liked to do things.
Boehly definitely has a lot to learn and will very likely be smart enough to realize he can't do it all alone and goes on to hire a sporting director to help running things. Tuchel can then get back to only coaching and leave transfer business to others which is what he likes best. The timeline was always going to be difficult because you don't hire a sporting director on a whim, you need to properly vet the candidates to make sure you have a good fit. The takeover officially went through at the end of May and Marina/Cech were only confirmed to leave near the end of June so there was never going to be enough time to get a DoF in place for the ongoing transfer window. The original plan was for Marina and Cech to stay on till the end of the window but I'm pretty sure Boehly/Tuchel and Marina/Cech had a big disagreement on how the Lukaku situation should be handled so the latter two ended up leaving a little bit earlier than planned. It's definitely a good learning experience for Boehly to get an idea on how to handle things but like you said the club just need to get through this window and try to get some players both in and out the door before taking some time to appoint a proper sporting leadership during the first few months of the season.
Cheers. I had no idea about the Lukaku argument but can see why it would have been contentious given the money involved.
I don’t know much about Boehly but it does look like his inexperience is showing. This is very much a learning experience so I’m sure he’ll get it right but this window looks like it could be cobbled together.
I actually don’t think it would be wise to spend silly money now just for the sake of it as without the right targets and research/background work it could be a disaster. Might be better to not do anything too crazy until the right people are where they need to be and everything is in order with the structure.
You’ve just waddled into one of the core arguments Chelsea fans have been amongst each other this summer. A lot of people agree with that take and think it unwise to spend £200m in a window like this, while others feel standing still will ensure we’ll be out of the CL by next season as teams around us have strengthened.
What do you think?
Somewhere in the middle. We absolutely have to replace outgoing players, whether it be through the market on new players or looking within the academy. It’s probably wise to hold off a bit when we start talking about revamping the squad in general.
Not sure what @WeePat thinks, but personally I think we can't afford to tread water, especially considering the players we've lost already. That said, I can very much appreciate the need for wariness after this sort of attitude lead to arguably our worst transfer window ever, that being the 2016 one after we won the league with Conte (which we are still literally paying for). So I'm probably somewhere in between.
Frankly I'm not overly fussed if we get Kounde specifically or not - I like him as a player and would be glad to have him, but frankly I think Skriniar and Kimpembe are both better so if we can land one all the better (especially clear as the latter is preferred at CB for France). I do think we should be looking to revamp our attack though - my dream signing is Joao Felix but that seems extremely unlikely.
It is better to laugh than to cry!
We’re on the same page as usual.
I would have liked Kounde - although admittedly I hardly ever saw him play so all of my opinion is based an hearsay - because from what I understood he could play a RB as well hence giving James an occasional breather too which I think is crucial for our season. (A Chilwell back-up would be welcome too though but at least in theory Alonso‘s still there and for an occasional game or so it‘s quite alright)
Now our frontline is a totally different matter and it really caught up with me as I‘m not that confident at all anymore. Hopefully we won‘t make a panic bid for Ronaldo but we‘re in a tight spot nonetheless. All I see are mostly „problems“ or unsolved mysteries…be it Ziyech, Werner, Havertz, CHO or Pulisic.
Now our frontline is a totally different matter and it really caught up with me as I‘m not that confident at all anymore. Hopefully we won‘t make a panic bid for Ronaldo but we‘re in a tight spot nonetheless. All I see are mostly „problems“ or unsolved mysteries…be it Ziyech, Werner, Havertz, CHO or Pulisic.
Leipzig in for Werner. Loan.
As frustrating as missing out on players has been I find this window quite encouraging once that had been cut through and the pill has been swallowed.
Firstly because I believe the players we have actually signed are massive upgrades to what we have had/have and the players we missed out on would have been excellent fits for us which while makes it frustrating is also a very encouraging sign for our recruitment going forward under the new ownership. That aspect is very welcome after last summer when we (must have) just looked at the top line and didn't factor in how the player would fit stylistically.
I think ultimately missing out on players is something we have to accept if we want to shop at this level, the reality is Barca and Bayern are simply more attractive propositions for players that don't have an emotional attachment to Chelsea. Some will come off but many won't.
Scenes when Laporta shows up for dessert.
I think what is happening on that front is fairly obvious: he did t want to change ships in the middle of a summer window, but long term wanted a change and it leaked out. When Marina and others found out they probably asked some questions and didn’t like the answers.
Marinas leaving happened Almost exactly the same time journos learned Boehly was talking to MichaelEdwarfs to see if he could press him into interest in the Chelsea job; now or in the future. Since the job was technically occupied, probably not the most comfortable conversation.
But it is t shocking. And Tuchel probably feels exactly the same way, because how long does a manager generally outlive an ownership change?
This is more an issue when it came to the secondary targets. I’m sure there is some truth to the “Of the teams interested, I’m the one willing to spend the most money” belief on Boehlys part. You also have to remember he is used to BEING the Barca/Madrid of his sports world.
Not having more experienced people when you have to turn to secondary targets, in areas still fairly new to you, would be an issue.
I think the rumored division over how to handle Lukaku is what messed all this up though. If that had been clean done much sooner people like Kounde might have been finished before Barca learned how to spell “lever”.
Bayern is sound, and as an appealing landing spot will continue to be up there. It will take accumulated history to get into that level.
But Barca can be caught. If you disregard their childhood popularity with these players no one in their right mind would go there. And if you get the right structure and management in place they can be beaten to the punch the same way PSG and City have been doing it.
Although there was success, we had a reputation for being erratic under Roman -> basically the opposite of the steadfast comfort level and continuity of Bayern. Boehly can build that type of structure, but he’s not going to do it in two months.
Players are being extra paranoid about on field time and form with this weird “World Cup halfway through a season” thing. It’s making them bonkers. Someone needs to be honest with Werner and tell him pumping in goals against the Bundesliga for RBL is not going to erase doubts about what he showed at Chelsea. His end product against top players has been poor… not just in scoring. Only he can fix that. Germany coaches aren’t blind.
I would be more than happy with Kimpembe, Gvardiol, and another attacker …Antony, the kid from AC Mila…. Whoever the best player they can get s, just get them in.
Pulisic seems … odd to me. Like maybe he feels out of his depth? He surely doesn’t have to worry about his spot in the USMNT … we aren’t exactly crawling with depth.
Idk. I’d move on Alonso and Azpi asap. A disgruntled player is one thing. A disgruntled former captain everyone respects is another. It saddens me that Dave would cause problems on his way out for a team that loves him, just to beg for backup minutes on a team that
snubbed him his whole career.
Oh well. Don’t do Barca-type things, continuedoing right by your players, and continue fighting and building, and it will all come together the way we would like eventually.
But Barca can be caught. If you disregard their childhood popularity with these players no one in their right mind would go there. And if you get the right structure and management in place they can be beaten to the punch the same way PSG and City have been doing it.
Although there was success, we had a reputation for being erratic under Roman -> basically the opposite of the steadfast comfort level and continuity of Bayern. Boehly can build that type of structure, but he’s not going to do it in two months.
Players are being extra paranoid about on field time and form with this weird “World Cup halfway through a season” thing. It’s making them bonkers. Someone needs to be honest with Werner and tell him pumping in goals against the Bundesliga for RBL is not going to erase doubts about what he showed at Chelsea. His end product against top players has been poor… not just in scoring. Only he can fix that. Germany coaches aren’t blind.
I would be more than happy with Kimpembe, Gvardiol, and another attacker …Antony, the kid from AC Mila…. Whoever the best player they can get s, just get them in.
Pulisic seems … odd to me. Like maybe he feels out of his depth? He surely doesn’t have to worry about his spot in the USMNT … we aren’t exactly crawling with depth.
Idk. I’d move on Alonso and Azpi asap. A disgruntled player is one thing. A disgruntled former captain everyone respects is another. It saddens me that Dave would cause problems on his way out for a team that loves him, just to beg for backup minutes on a team that
snubbed him his whole career.
Oh well. Don’t do Barca-type things, continuedoing right by your players, and continue fighting and building, and it will all come together the way we would like eventually.
I was reading the list of alternatives to Kounde Chelsea are supposedly looking at - Skrinniar, Kimpempe, Gvardiol, Upamecano and Pavard. That's 5 very different defenders. If those reports are true, then it seems like we're just looking at potential available defenders rather than recruiting a particular profile we like.
I think tactically Kounde would have been a good fit for Tuchel's system. Like Azpilicueta in the RCB role he likes to carry the ball forward and do some overlapping runs with the RB/RWB. I could have seen him having a good chemistry with James on the pitch.
Defensively I'd probably rate Skriniar the highest of the list but he's not a ball carrier like Kounde, and as far as I know neither are the others. Not to mention some would be more likely to slot in at LCB and some at RCB so like you said those are very different players. After missing out on a few top targets it's obvious at this point the club just want to, or rather need to, sign at least one highly rated CB and figure out the tactical nuances afterwards. Tuchel has already said he trusts Koulibaly to play any of the places in the three man central defense so perhaps tactically that helps a little bit.
Skriniar has tended to show his best form when in a back 4 as well, which makes Chelsea's supposed interest in him seem strange to me.
I don't rate Kimpembe, he has far too many howlers in him in a much less competitive league. I think some of the smarter attackers in the PL would have a good time against him.
Gvardiol is the biggest talent of that bunch, but it would mean that Colwill is never breaking through and I thought that Koulibaly was signed to play Gvardiol's best position.
All of the defenders are very different profiles anyway. The recruitment at Chelsea just seems like such a mess this summer, it has really reminded me of United of the last few years.
I don't rate Kimpembe, he has far too many howlers in him in a much less competitive league. I think some of the smarter attackers in the PL would have a good time against him.
Gvardiol is the biggest talent of that bunch, but it would mean that Colwill is never breaking through and I thought that Koulibaly was signed to play Gvardiol's best position.
All of the defenders are very different profiles anyway. The recruitment at Chelsea just seems like such a mess this summer, it has really reminded me of United of the last few years.
Yep exactly this which is why I think it’s a fair point, although some staunchly disagree, to suggest it’s a bit of a scattergun approach this summer.
Window could have gone a lot smoother so far but we’ve bagged Sterling and Koulibaly in amongst all the chaos at the club. Boehly couldn’t legislate for Barca going absolutely mental and without that we’d also have Kounde and Raphina and be pretty much done once Azpi and Alonso were sorted.
We’ve still got five weeks to go to get a couple more faces in and sort out a few of those wanting to leave. Then Tuchel can focus on coaching and Boehly can start running the club properly (getting key people in, driving revenue and making plans for the next window).
Our starting eleven and squad depth is still very good as it is so I’m not at panic stations like some seem to be, although we do need at least one very good CB in.
We’ve still got five weeks to go to get a couple more faces in and sort out a few of those wanting to leave. Then Tuchel can focus on coaching and Boehly can start running the club properly (getting key people in, driving revenue and making plans for the next window).
Our starting eleven and squad depth is still very good as it is so I’m not at panic stations like some seem to be, although we do need at least one very good CB in.
Another day, another new name in the transfer rumors. This time Denzel Dumfries of Inter, who I believe Man Utd have also been looking into. Don't really rate him all that highly but could probably do the job as RWB backup for James.
Also Newcastle are reported to be in for Werner. Would snap their hand off if they make a bid, probably one of few clubs who could afford to pay his wages as well.
Also Newcastle are reported to be in for Werner. Would snap their hand off if they make a bid, probably one of few clubs who could afford to pay his wages as well.
I think the problem is your shopping at the top end of the market so you are trying to buy top quality. There will be a lack of top centre backs available so rather than go down the list of a specific type which might reduce in quality as you go further down, your trying just to buy out of the top tier and adjust your tactics accordingly.
Its the same with the striker situation and the lack of real quality number 9's. Its the same names mentioned all the time that could have been in the market the last 6 months or so, Halaand, Vlahovic, Tammy, Scamacca, Isak, David, Nunez, Calvert-Lewin, Jesus etc. All different types, and it seems to be about getting the quality rather than a specific type.
If Werner and Ziyech can be moved on and a quality forward can't be brought in to replace them, I would just stick with the current options.
Havertz, Broja, Sterling, Mount, Pulisic and CHO for three places in the team would be more than enough depth. I'd be a little bit worried about the quality but if I were Tuchel and had these options to choose from I would ideally look into building a good chemistry between Sterling-Havertz-Mount starting as many games as possible together and CHO-Broja-Pulisic as their backups.
I'd say one of the reasons for our attacking players constantly underperforming, aside from a certain lack of quality for some, is the constant rotation and players never seemingly developing a good on-field relationship with each other due to the chopping and changing. Since the summer of 2020 there has very rarely been a continuous run of games using the same front line without at least one of the players being changed for another between games. Building a bit of momentum using the same lineup more regularly could mark a big improvement.
Last season there were 7 players competing for three spots (Lukaku, Havertz, Mount, Werner, Ziyech, Pulisic, CHO) and even 8 if you count Barkley among them. Only Mount played 2000 league minutes or more and the other six averaged less than 1400 minutes across the league season, which amounts to only around fifteen full 90 minute games. That's not enough to build any sort of form because as soon as you have one bad game, you're out of the team for the foreseeable.
Having good depth is often considered a positive but having too many players of similar quality competing for the same places can quickly turn into a negative as well. In addition to never developing good chemistry together, players who always need to worry about being axed for the next game can get more scared of making mistakes and perhaps unknowingly start playing too cautious.
I refuse to believe Chelsea's forwards are as bad as they sometimes seem, and the reason for their undeperformance is not only down to the manager's preferred system either.
Havertz, Broja, Sterling, Mount, Pulisic and CHO for three places in the team would be more than enough depth. I'd be a little bit worried about the quality but if I were Tuchel and had these options to choose from I would ideally look into building a good chemistry between Sterling-Havertz-Mount starting as many games as possible together and CHO-Broja-Pulisic as their backups.
I'd say one of the reasons for our attacking players constantly underperforming, aside from a certain lack of quality for some, is the constant rotation and players never seemingly developing a good on-field relationship with each other due to the chopping and changing. Since the summer of 2020 there has very rarely been a continuous run of games using the same front line without at least one of the players being changed for another between games. Building a bit of momentum using the same lineup more regularly could mark a big improvement.
Last season there were 7 players competing for three spots (Lukaku, Havertz, Mount, Werner, Ziyech, Pulisic, CHO) and even 8 if you count Barkley among them. Only Mount played 2000 league minutes or more and the other six averaged less than 1400 minutes across the league season, which amounts to only around fifteen full 90 minute games. That's not enough to build any sort of form because as soon as you have one bad game, you're out of the team for the foreseeable.
Having good depth is often considered a positive but having too many players of similar quality competing for the same places can quickly turn into a negative as well. In addition to never developing good chemistry together, players who always need to worry about being axed for the next game can get more scared of making mistakes and perhaps unknowingly start playing too cautious.
I refuse to believe Chelsea's forwards are as bad as they sometimes seem, and the reason for their undeperformance is not only down to the manager's preferred system either.
Question for the resident Chelsea fans (partly inspired by the links to DeJong).
There has been a lot of attention on your forward line and your defence this window but are you worried about your CM area?
Kante/ Kovacic seem to be injury prone while Jorginho doesn't seem to be getting the same "Love" from supporters he did a couple of years ago.
Is the idea to just drop Gallagher in there and hope it works out? RLC to play more?
I know you may have some more pressing issues but a lot of United fans seem to think that DeJong would be surplus to requirements there while I think he would be an automatic starter and someone who brings you up a level.
There has been a lot of attention on your forward line and your defence this window but are you worried about your CM area?
Kante/ Kovacic seem to be injury prone while Jorginho doesn't seem to be getting the same "Love" from supporters he did a couple of years ago.
Is the idea to just drop Gallagher in there and hope it works out? RLC to play more?
I know you may have some more pressing issues but a lot of United fans seem to think that DeJong would be surplus to requirements there while I think he would be an automatic starter and someone who brings you up a level.
Gvardiol is a good ball carrier, he has a lot of similar qualities to Rudiger but he's also very young and inexperienced, which is the entire reason Colwill is being overlooked, so although I really Gvardiol, unless there's a specific plan for Colwill, his arrival won't sit well with Colwill's camp.
I don't really rate the Bayern pair enough to want to buy them. We might as well just give Ampadu the job if we're resorting to Upamecano and Pavard.
So from those names listed, I'd prefer Skrinniar or Gvardiol. I really would like to test Leicester's resolve for Fofana though.
You're not wrong generally, but I don't think the CB market is the same as the CF market. I don't think we'll be hugely disadvantaged if we end up with Skrinniar instead of De Ligt and Kounde. It's not like we're missing out on peak Van Dijk and having to settle for Skrinniar or Gvardiol.
Worried? No, but do I think in an ideal world we would be planning ahead and securing a new midfielders before Jorgi and Kante's contracts run out. I do not think FDJ is surplus to requirements here. We need midfielders. It's just not a burning issue for us this summer, but I'm sure if the opportunity presents itself, we would pounce on FDJ.
Yeah, sorry I agree, I didn't make my point clear. It was more to those saying that when you miss out on a target, you don't seem to be targeting the same profile. Whereas I'm agreeing with you and saying the quality of who you are targeting is probably more important just now.
Yeah I hear you but I disagree that that should be the case. I think the right profile is more important than just taking the best CB available on the market. For example, if Kounde is really the kind of CB we wanted, Fofana might be a better player to go for than Skrinniar.
Thanks for the reply, I've heard Rory Jennings (YouTube guy who you may think is a prick, I think he's alright if a bit melodramatic at times but I don't know many Chelsea fans so he's my go to go for the fandom
) talk about Jorginho last season not being up to scratch (+ obviously fans here talk about RLC never hitting the heights expected and the Saul disaster etc) but I wasn't sure if that's how the majority felt.I do recognize that you had to make signings at CB, in the forward line and probably wingback depth first but I don't think your interest in FdJ is as ridiculous as some in the transfer forum suggest.
Thanks for the reply, I've heard Rory Jennings (YouTube guy who you may think is a prick, I think he's alright if a bit melodramatic at times but I don't know many Chelsea fans so he's my go to go for the fandom
I do recognize that you had to make signings at CB, in the forward line and probably wingback depth first but I don't think your interest in FdJ is as ridiculous as some in the transfer forum suggest.
I disliked that Rory chap a lot a couple of years when he seemed to have very xenophobic takes on Sarri and overseas fans. He's harmless generally speaking, but I do find that I disagree with him on a lot more than I agree with him, from the videos I've watched. There are better Chelsea fans to watch, if football youtubers is your thing.
It's definitely not ridiculous, but I think the reason we're unlikely to go for him is simply because we have other priorities, not because we're stacked in that area.
We just reduced the bargaining position for barcelona other than that they ruined our window. Not other way. Raphinha and kounde could goto them lot cheaper if not for us. Only satisfaction from these two sagas.
Sure man, that's a big win.
He’s just trying to make lemonade out of lemons man. Leave him alone
Sorry for spoiling it.With Kounde now going to Barca, that's 2, potentially 3 players that Chelsea have had hijacked by Barca now. Imagine the meltdown on here, if we had our targets hijacked by a team who can't even register them. Their squad needs major surgery and so far they've got 2 players. The team most in danger of dropping out of top 4 imo.
Major surgery is not true. We've replaced Rudiger well and signed a big upgrade on the attack. Plus we have a new midfielder that would have gone for around £60m had Palace owned him.
Regarding the first part I can't speak for any other fan but I've always been at peace with the fact we can't compete with the Barca's/Real's etc of this world when it comes to player pull, I'm actually quite happy that's the type of market we're shopping in (we could have easily settled for a Lenglet instead of going for the tier of K2/Kounde/MDL etc).
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