Chelsea 2020/21 - General discussion
- Thread starter duffer
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This game highlights why Lampard is miles off being ready to challenge for titles as a manager. When you have your 3 wingers out, you do not just throw a midfielder and a striker at winger, you adapt and play to suit your squad.
3 at the back with James and Chilwell wingbacks. It’s not entirely difficult to realise this is an option, yet tactical Frank likes to mess about with Havertz. He is going to destroy Havertz this season. This kid has all the attributes but he’s not a RW or a CM, he clearly players better slightly behind a striker but Frank is too afraid to play with 2 central midfielders, he is more concerned about defending that our feeble attack in big games.
He is also going to destroy Werner. The guy said he prefers playing striker yet he has rarely featured in this position since joining.
That is now Man Utd, Liverpool, Spurs and Everton where we have failed to score a goal due to our horrendous lack of ambition from starting more difficult games.
Frank has a lot of positives as a manager however his in game management and his tactics really need to improve.
The difference between Frank and OGS? The fans. Look at the Chelsea fans forum. It is littered with happy-clapping armchair fans and a clueless moderation team who ban anyone daring to criticise Lampard’s tactics and disagree with the moderators. Then there is the fact that Lampard is English and gets an easier ride from the media. He’s the only Englishman in charge of a top club in the PL.
3 at the back with James and Chilwell wingbacks. It’s not entirely difficult to realise this is an option, yet tactical Frank likes to mess about with Havertz. He is going to destroy Havertz this season. This kid has all the attributes but he’s not a RW or a CM, he clearly players better slightly behind a striker but Frank is too afraid to play with 2 central midfielders, he is more concerned about defending that our feeble attack in big games.
He is also going to destroy Werner. The guy said he prefers playing striker yet he has rarely featured in this position since joining.
That is now Man Utd, Liverpool, Spurs and Everton where we have failed to score a goal due to our horrendous lack of ambition from starting more difficult games.
Frank has a lot of positives as a manager however his in game management and his tactics really need to improve.
The difference between Frank and OGS? The fans. Look at the Chelsea fans forum. It is littered with happy-clapping armchair fans and a clueless moderation team who ban anyone daring to criticise Lampard’s tactics and disagree with the moderators. Then there is the fact that Lampard is English and gets an easier ride from the media. He’s the only Englishman in charge of a top club in the PL.
KDB is arguably the best name from this list. Why is he only mid-lower tier World Class?
Not for me, my standard is different. I don’t put everyone in high tier world class easily. But we both agree he is a world class.
Yeah, but football doesn’t work like that which is why we beat Spurs 1-0 and you got beat by them 6-1 but then beat us.
So a win for United on Thursday night (against bottom of the league Sheffield United) takes us above highflying, title contenders Chelsea. Presumably this will coincide with the end of the Frank Lampard and Chelsea media love-in, remove all pressure from Solskjaer and place United firmly in the media's list of potential title winners?
.... I doubt it.
.... I doubt it.
For me, Salah and Aguero have to be out of that world class category, replaced by Bruno, Trent and KdB. I have a small category of world class players as imo, for one to be world class, they have to get into a WORLD XI. That is what world class means after all, best in the world. Therefore, for me, there are only 11 world class players in the world, and they are:
Neuer
TAA Ramos VVD Davies
Kimmich
KdB Bruno
Messi Kane Ronaldo
Who are the current "high tier world class" players for you?
If it stops you lot whining about an imagined media love-in, it would almost be worth it.
I'm a little confused here.
After about a month you lot happily (and rightly) declared Bruno world class and a difference maker but we can't do the same with Silva after three months despite the fact his presence had contributed to us going from the worst defense in the top half to arguably the best in the league? Sounds fair!
The reason why I didn’t have ‘’and’’ in that mid tier list was because I actually added Trent but I decided to edited it and deleted it, I have bit of mix feeling of what he’s capable of in defensively as defender. I would like to see another season of him.
To me world class should be in comparison to the ones that were considered as world best whether it was the past or present one except for Messi & Ronaldo who are beyond comparison. If he wants to be considered as world class striker then I compare him with Lewandowski, are you any closer to his level if yes then you are world class. If he wants to be considered as world class winger then I compare him with Robben. Same with right back, compare him with Alves.
Who declared Bruno world class after exactly one month? You seem to be using massive generalisations/made up shit to prove a veiled point about Silva..
I'd rather let a player prove themselves over a longer a period personally.
Yeah, Silva has only been playing incredibly well in Europe for a decade, lets wait a while to make a judgement.
Messi, Ronaldo, Lewandowski, Ramos, Neymar, Mbappe (may be, want to see him in tougher league), prime Modric, those 4 PL players and Neuer for keeper.
Its been a long while since he's been talked about as the best CB in the world let's be honest.
You lot are so defensive about everything
The lack of self awareness is just....Its been a long while since he's been talked about as the best CB in the world let's be honest.
You lot are so defensive about everything
You're just making things up and being called on it.
Bruno is delivering some of the best figures in world football and has been consistently doing so in the PL for almost a year. Silva was undoubtedly one of the best CBs in the world but is in his twilight years and has just joined the PL.
He's improved massively since his horrendous debut at West Brom but to declare him on par with Bruno and one of the worlds best CBs after a few months is ridiculous and I think you know that really.
At least we beat them when they had Coleman & Digne. Those two didn’t even play yesterday and they didn’t have proper full back to back them up when they are injured.
Its been a long while since he's been talked about as the best CB in the world let's be honest.
You lot are so defensive about everything
You're right, I shouldn't really bite. Chelsea dropped points so obviously your troll alarm went off and you logged back in. Not a single peep after the Manchester Derby from you but Chelsea lose and you're all over it.
I blame myself!
Again stop it! You're almost (just almost) making me feel bad.
PS I'll have some Hotel Chocolat for Christmas please.
My point right there, you've literally gone on full defensive mode because I've pointed out the difference Thiago has made says it all.
The fact that your using his one below par game to try and prove a point says it all, if we're going to play that game then you've given me the easiest three word counter in history, Bruno Vs Arsenal.
Actually, it's the mods fault for banning all the Liverpool fans. There's nobody else for you to wum!
You're ignoring the actual point again Dan. You make a habit of this.
You threw Thiago in to your analogy as you felt you had to have a Chelsea representative in it. You need to stop being so defensive about literally everything Chelsea related as it's very insecure. Especially when you're on a United forum.
Meh. I'm a professional what can I say.
The only one being defensive here is you. Every time we have a bad result it's the same cycle
-You come on here to try and talk shit about a couple of our players.
-You get given the counter argument which destroys your narrative, often by multiple posters.
-You get all upset and deflect with "stop being so defensive" or "how dare you this a United forum".
And btw, the fact this is a United forum is the only reason I don't give you a lot of stick about some of the things you say that have looked utterly clueless in hindsight (your comments on football restarting and us 'ignoring' the youth now we can spend the two prime examples).
Yeah you've avoided answering the points again and gone off topic. The only person who gets upset on the forum seems to be you!
That's the only cycle being repeated here sadly.
Anyway. I'll get the Ballon d'Or ready for Thiago Silva.
"Low tier world class"
I love this forum sometimes.
I love this forum sometimes.
That's interesting because just over half an half ago you levelled the exactly same accusation at Duffer and now it's "only me".
Someone help Dan out here please. He's sinking.. for the love of God someone step in. Think of the children.
Now who's avoiding the point and by getting personal no less.
Is it "us lot" who are defensive or is it "only me"?
Thats very harsh way of judging who is "world class". There are at least 2-3 players on every positions who can replace the ones you've put. For example Robertson and Davies are both world class player, just in a different way.
I know, but at the end of the day, being world class should be nigh on impossible, requiring you to have an immaculate work-rate, unbelievable talent and undroppable consistency. For me, that team was graded over last season, so you’re right, if I made it this season, then Robertson is world class and Davies isn’t. Only players who are playing to the standard where no one is better than them should be considered world class. The likes of Puskas, Pele, Maradona, R9, Cristiano and Messi were for at least a decade, hence why they are undisputed legends of the game.
Exactly.
Chelsea definitely have a deep and talented squad, but they don't have any "high-end players".
If you look around the PL or international competition, every top club has at least two or three of those players (if those guys are fit/in form):
City: De Bruyne, Sterling, Agüero
Liverpool: Alisson, VVD, Thiago, Salah, Mané
Real: Ramos, Modric, Kroos, Benzema, Hazard
Bayern: Neuer, Lewandowski, Kimmich, Müller, Sané
Barcelona: Ter Stegen, Messi, Griezmann
Juve: Ronaldo, Dybala
PSG: Neymar, Mbappe, Veratti
Chelsea doesn't have that kind of players. They have a bunch of guys, who are a tier below, but none of the true worldclass players. The closest ones are Thiago Silva (who's getting old) and Kante (isn't the player he was from 2016-2018 anymore). Guys like Pulisic, Ziyech, Havertz and Werner are all solid players, but simply not worldclass ones. Havertz has the potential to become one, but right now he's really struggling.
Kane, Messi and Ronaldo over Lewandowski is really bold ...
The current top 11 would line up more like this imho:
Neuer
TAA Ramos VVD Robertson
Kimmich
KdB Müller
Neymar Lewandowski Mbappe
Messi has played like crap for half a year now and Ronaldo can't play on the wings anymore and also can't beat out Lewandowski for the striker position.
Bruno/Müller is a matter of preference and Davies was injured for quite a while now, so Robertson gets the edge.
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I was taking a bit of 2018-19 and the whole 2019-20 into account, but if I were to make a world class team for this season, it’d be:
Neuer
Ramos Marquinhos Robertson
Kimmich KdB Bruno Neymar
Son
Kane Lewandowski
Very unbalanced team who’d get destroyed by any defensively competent team, but this season, they’ve been the best in the world, hence world class. No TAA and VvD as you can’t play from the treatment table.
I understand you and its also very subjective how one defies "world class". My thinking is, that with your way is very hard to find a majority that will agree on one player. You can have 5 strikers who score 40 goals a season, but you have to choose only one. At the same time, you may not have a world class performing right back, but you have to put one, instead of saying - there are 5 world class strikers and no world class right backs.
I hope I am not the only one who thought we did okay. Unlucky goal to condede, but we had Everton on their back foot for most of the game.
Of course. Having to omit Lewandowski from my original team made me feel like an idiot already
Still though, that’s how I define world class. This is why world class is in the ‘define these footballing terms’ thread.Lampard isn't doing anything more than fighting for 4th with this moderate bunch of players.
Compare them mam for man with the quality teams they used to have - Kante would be a starter. James, Mount, Chilwell and Pulisic would be number 2 choices and that's about it.
For all the money spent they're alarmingly short of players with vision and quality technical ability.
Just watch how many times they get into final third of the pitch and then find themselves having nobody to pick a pass to split open the defence or run at and beat the defenders to create an opening.
Time and again they'll pass it backwards with the ball eventually ending up back outside their own area,
When they do try and make an insisive pass into the box it's invairably over or under hit, so all they really have is a lump into the box and hope someone gets on the end of it.
That just isn't good enough and shouldn't be acceptable for their fans or Mr Abramovich.
Not a single win against a top ten teams says everything about how ordinary this team really is.
I'll be extremely surprised if they sneak into the top four this season.
Compare them mam for man with the quality teams they used to have - Kante would be a starter. James, Mount, Chilwell and Pulisic would be number 2 choices and that's about it.
For all the money spent they're alarmingly short of players with vision and quality technical ability.
Just watch how many times they get into final third of the pitch and then find themselves having nobody to pick a pass to split open the defence or run at and beat the defenders to create an opening.
Time and again they'll pass it backwards with the ball eventually ending up back outside their own area,
When they do try and make an insisive pass into the box it's invairably over or under hit, so all they really have is a lump into the box and hope someone gets on the end of it.
That just isn't good enough and shouldn't be acceptable for their fans or Mr Abramovich.
Not a single win against a top ten teams says everything about how ordinary this team really is.
I'll be extremely surprised if they sneak into the top four this season.
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he is like clockwork that particular user. A bad Utd result he is nowhere to be seen, Chelsea lose or draw? Logs in and enters this thread immediately. Suspect a lot is tongue in cheek and trolling, but its a bit silly. I think it is the same user who claimed I was living in fantasy football land thinking we'd sign all the positions i predicted.... guess what? We did sign them all