Chelsea 2020/21 - General discussion

Theafonis said:
I probably sound like a broken record but Pulisic’s injuries are concerning. He can’t stay fit for more than 2 or 3 weeks. Always something niggling with him.
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Lampard and fitness team on it, hopefully they'll sort it with special fitness program. Always remember Robben continually injured for us, then when went to Bayern never got injured at all. Some players you just need to find the right way to look after them.

Good news is Ziyech and CHO both hopefully only out for a couple of weeks so wing cavalry arriving for games after Christmas.
 
Zaphod2319 said:
Lampard has confirmed that Pulisic is available for the Everton game, if he was not fit, I have no doubt Havertz would play RW.

James, Delph, and Coleman out for Everton...it is an early Christmas.
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Bit of a bogey ground for us. Will be a welcome 3 point if indeed we win.
 
Mb194dc said:
Lampard and fitness team on it, hopefully they'll sort it with special fitness program. Always remember Robben continually injured for us, then when went to Bayern never got injured at all. Some players you just need to find the right way to look after them.

Good news is Ziyech and CHO both hopefully only out for a couple of weeks so wing cavalry arriving for games after Christmas.
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Robben was still injured quite a bit at Bayern, but he spoke at lengths about having his own bespoke training and conditioning regime created for him which allowed him to have the career that he had. I think Van Persie had a similar thing at Arsenal. This might be the answer for Pulisic, because the list of injuries he's had is ridiculously long and he's only 22.
 
Watching the Newcastle v Westbrom game I've got to say, I'm more excited about Gallagher than I've ever been with Gilmour. There is a fantastic B2B midfielder brewing in that lad if we can manage him well.
 
I disagree. Whilst Gallagher is a fantastic talent, Gilmour is just incredible. He really has all the potential to reach the top.
 
So whatever Lampard said about Pulisic midweek was just mind games then. It's a shame because playing Havertz out of position isn't helping him at all.

Anjorin would have provided some directness, but what we got out of sorts front 3, with Reece James trying to carry the entire attack on his shoulders whilst also trying to keep Richardson quiet.
 
Shocked by the result v Everton after seeing a below par United go to Goodison the other week and cruise to a win.

Havertz awful again. At £80m he really should be getting a harder time in the media. Bit of a shocker from Werner too.
 
TheReligion said:
Shocked by the result v Everton after seeing a below par United go to Goodison the other week and cruise to a win.

Havertz awful again. At £80m he really should be getting a harder time in the media. Bit of a shocker from Werner too.
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We almost always lose at Everton - probably our biggest bogey fixture by some distance. Agreed that Havertz was very poor - he misplaced about 5 passes in the first half hour by not weighting them correctly and generally looked a bit at sea on the right wing. That said, he's historically always started seasons slowly and is still quite young, so I'm optimistic he'll come good. I don't think he's been done too many favours by being played in 3 different positions this season so far as well.

Werner was always going to struggle here - he's not a shot creator at all and without all 3 of our wingers I'm not surprised he had a tough go of it.
 
TheReligion said:
Shocked by the result v Everton after seeing a below par United go to Goodison the other week and cruise to a win.

Havertz awful again. At £80m he really should be getting a harder time in the media. Bit of a shocker from Werner too.
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He's recovering from an illness that caused you and numerous others to call for football to be halted indefinitely, and unlike most footballers he didn't get it asymptomatically.

It's more on Lampard tbh, last year when Pulisic was struggling he took him out of the firing line for a month he should do the same here.
 
duffer said:
Oh you! Such a fibber.
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Sorry was it £70 odd mil? Either way he's a mega signing and really looks overpriced at this juncture.

TheMagicFoolBus said:
We almost always lose at Everton - probably our biggest bogey fixture by some distance. Agreed that Havertz was very poor - he misplaced about 5 passes in the first half hour by not weighting them correctly and generally looked a bit at sea on the right wing. That said, he's historically always started seasons slowly and is still quite young, so I'm optimistic he'll come good. I don't think he's been done too many favours by being played in 3 different positions this season so far as well.

Werner was always going to struggle here - he's not a shot creator at all and without all 3 of our wingers I'm not surprised he had a tough go of it.
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I think you're right about the different positions. I did raise a few points about the amount of money and duplication of positions you filled in the summer. It feels as though at times Frank is just trying to fit everyone in rather than picking the best team in its best position so to speak. Is a headache for sure.

Dancfc said:
He's recovering from an illness that caused you and numerous others to call for football to be halted indefinitely, and unlike most footballers he didn't get it asymptomatically.

It's more on Lampard tbh, last year when Pulisic was struggling he took him out of the firing line for a month he should do the same here.
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Yeah loads of people have had Covid. Not sure what your point is tbh. I can see that making players tire quickly but that's not the issue with Havertz. He just looks a bit, er rubbish?
 
Weird that if we win our game in hand we're ahead of them. Since they have a manager that's supposedly so much better than ours and spent a fortune in summer.
 
Dancfc said:
He's recovering from an illness that caused you and numerous others to call for football to be halted indefinitely, and unlike most footballers he didn't get it asymptomatically.

It's more on Lampard tbh, last year when Pulisic was struggling he took him out of the firing line for a month he should do the same here.
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Yeah he said it completely wiped him out, and he could barely get through a training session with feeling like death upon return
 
duffer said:
He's spent less than Ole. Give them man a break!
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I'm only being semi serious and not so much having a go at lampard who I think is doing a good job, as pointing out the depth of hypocrisy of some posters
 
SER19 said:
I'm only being semi serious and not so much having a go at lampard who I think is doing a good job, as pointing out the depth of hypocrisy of some posters
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The spending thing is a myth though.

1) they have a transfer committee
2) they had a transfer ban
3) during Lampards tenure they've spent mega money, even during the ban they dropped £60m on Pulisic.
 
TheReligion said:
Sorry was it £70 odd mil? Either way he's a mega signing and really looks overpriced at this juncture.



I think you're right about the different positions. I did raise a few points about the amount of money and duplication of positions you filled in the summer. It feels as though at times Frank is just trying to fit everyone in rather than picking the best team in its best position so to speak. Is a headache for sure.



Yeah loads of people have had Covid. Not sure what your point is tbh. I can see that making players tire quickly but that's not the issue with Havertz. He just looks a bit, er rubbish?
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Ok then let's ignore Covid for the sake of the argument. He's 4 months into a new country, new league at the age of 21, to put it in layman's terms for one Bruno Fernandes or Thiago Silva there's ten Evra's, Henry's and Drogba's.

And there's also the fact he's still 21, unless you're Lionel Messi you ain't immune to growing pains as a young player, for example, few months back people were trashing on Reece James and claiming we let the wrong RB go, no one's laughing now though.
 
Dancfc said:
Ok then let's ignore Covid for the sake of the argument. He's 4 months into a new country, new league at the age of 21, to put it in layman's terms for one Bruno Fernandes or Thiago Silva there's ten Evra's, Henry's and Drogba's.

And there's also the fact he's still 21, unless you're Lionel Messi you ain't immune to growing pains as a young player, for example, few months back people were trashing on Reece James and claiming we let the wrong RB go, no one's laughing now though.
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That's fine but you've paid a premium which demands a ready made player. He's cost between £70-80m. Its mega money. It looks like you've drastically over paid.

Also not sure why you're putting Bruno and Silva on a par? Silva has been much better since his howler of a debut but think you're a little premature with comparing him to Fernandes.
 
TheReligion said:
Sorry was it £70 odd mil? Either way he's a mega signing and really looks overpriced at this juncture.

I think you're right about the different positions. I did raise a few points about the amount of money and duplication of positions you filled in the summer. It feels as though at times Frank is just trying to fit everyone in rather than picking the best team in its best position so to speak. Is a headache for sure.

Yeah loads of people have had Covid. Not sure what your point is tbh. I can see that making players tire quickly but that's not the issue with Havertz. He just looks a bit, er rubbish?
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To be fair, he had a pretty bad case - many players have been asymptomatic and Havertz in contrast suffered. From my personal experience having had it, I'm still coughing and short of full breath a month afterwards whilst my wife and kids have escaped unscathed.

Re: the different positions, I think our hands were a bit tied tonight because we had none of our 3 wingers available. We've looked at our best with a wide forward who aims to finish being played opposite a wide creative player, and the latter position was stark in its absence tonight. I do think Havertz was more of a luxury purchase to take advantage of the unique circumstances this past summer - that said I don't regret the deal for one second given his age and pedigree. We can afford to be patient with him.
 
I think Chelsea will probably remain as a league challenger but it doesn't look like Lampard has set them out with much else outside of "cross the ball". It's a bit Arteta-esque, but Lamps looks way better because he has far superior tools.
 
VP89 said:
I think Chelsea will probably remain as a league challenger but it doesn't look like Lampard has set them out with much else outside of "cross the ball". It's a bit Arteta-esque, but Lamps looks way better because he has far superior tools.
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That Is wildly inaccurate. We territorially dominate most games metric wise under Lampard while Arsenal tend to be dominated, create little and concede numerous chances relying on Leno/Emi to bail them out.

If we played like Arteta's Arsenal last season with Kepa in goal and no reliable finisher we'd have battled the drop.
 
VP89 said:
I think Chelsea will probably remain as a league challenger but it doesn't look like Lampard has set them out with much else outside of "cross the ball". It's a bit Arteta-esque, but Lamps looks way better because he has far superior tools.
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Circumstantial. We played like that today. Everton were very compact down the middle.
 
Dancfc said:
That Is wildly inaccurate. We territorially dominate most games metric wise under Lampard while Arsenal tend to be dominated, create little and concede numerous chances relying on Leno/Emi to bail them out.

If we played like Arteta's Arsenal last season with Kepa in goal and no reliable finisher we'd have battled the drop.
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I'm referring to chance creation rather than possession. When unlocking teams it looks like Lampard and Arteta have the same go-to manoeuvre. Of course I'd expect the team with a midfield of Kante/Kovacic/Jorginho to generally dominate games relative to the one with Xakha-Elneny-Partey.
 
VP89 said:
You did it quite a lot against Spurs too.
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For me it's an issue of lacking any sort of creativity out wide, given we were missing all 3 of the first team wingers. Given that context it's not surprising we lacked ideas from those sorts of positions. Spurs did far more to shoehorn us into resorting to crossing given they were defending with a 6 man backline.
 
VP89 said:
I'm referring to chance creation rather than possession. When unlocking teams it looks like Lampard and Arteta have the same go-to manoeuvre. Of course I'd expect the team with a midfield of Kante/Kovacic/Jorginho to generally dominate games relative to the one with Xakha-Elneny-Partey.
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Edit, only Liverpool (1 more) have scored more goals than Chelsea in the league. Chance creation is not really an issue this season.
 
TheMagicFoolBus said:
For me it's an issue of lacking any sort of creativity out wide, given we were missing all 3 of the first team wingers. Given that context it's not surprising we lacked ideas from those sorts of positions. Spurs did far more to shoehorn us into resorting to crossing given they were defending with a 6 man backline.
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Yeah, this is fair enough. I can imagine there being a much bigger dimension to your attack when Pulisic and Ziyech are on the pitch.

That said you have Havertz and Werner too so its disappointing you failed to create in spite of this. But every team has been off in many games I guess.
 
VP89 said:
Yeah, this is fair enough. I can imagine there being a much bigger dimension to your attack when Pulisic and Ziyech are on the pitch.

That said you have Havertz and Werner too so its disappointing you failed to create in spite of this. But every team has been off in many games I guess.
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Yeah, I agree that we were disappointing but at the same time, chance creating from wide areas simply has never been a strength of Werner or Havertz - both are the sorts to get on the end of chances rather than create them. For me it was a case of square pegs in round holes across the whole frontline this evening.
 
Really like the look of Lampard as a manager. Pretty funny how differently they're treated though in terms of mainstream media.

(Talking about Ole here of course)
 
duffer said:
Edit, only Liverpool (1 more) have scored more goals than Chelsea in the league. Chance creation is not really an issue this season.
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I'm saying from games I've seen they tend to come from chances out wide. Obviously you'll score more goals when you have Reece James putting them on a plate ;)
I just have a feeling that if you defend a cross well against Chelsea you're likely to be sorted.
 
TheMagicFoolBus said:
To be fair, he had a pretty bad case - many players have been asymptomatic and Havertz in contrast suffered. From my personal experience having had it, I'm still coughing and short of full breath a month afterwards whilst my wife and kids have escaped unscathed.

Re: the different positions, I think our hands were a bit tied tonight because we had none of our 3 wingers available. We've looked at our best with a wide forward who aims to finish being played opposite a wide creative player, and the latter position was stark in its absence tonight. I do think Havertz was more of a luxury purchase to take advantage of the unique circumstances this past summer - that said I don't regret the deal for one second given his age and pedigree. We can afford to be patient with him.
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I just don't like the making excuses. As I say it's not fatigue that he seems to be struggling with. He can't string passes together let alone much else. He just doesn't seem anything like the mega price tag. Maybe he'll grow into it but surely you don't punt that amount on a player?
 
TheReligion said:
I just don't like the making excuses. As I say it's not fatigue that he seems to be struggling with. He can't string passes together let alone much else. He just doesn't seem anything like the mega price tag. Maybe he'll grow into it but surely you don't punt that amount on a player?
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Sure, I can appreciate that view - that said, I think he's pretty clearly dealing with fatigue issues given he's coming off after 60-65 minutes and isn't running as much as he did pre-COVID, but this should be considered separately from his performance in the first 20 minutes tonight when he couldn't weight a pass correctly.

I think it's too soon to say whether he'll justify the price tag - that said I don't think we'd have to sell him for a massive loss, e.g. like Kepa or Pogba. Look at Joao Felix - last season everyone was clambering to declare him a bust and based on his form this year, Atleti will be very happy to have him. Havertz is more or less the same age - I'd just not rush to judge him prematurely. Historically as well he's done far better in the second half of seasons for Leverkusen as well; time will tell if that trend holds.
 
World class: Salah, VVD, Kane & prime Aguero

Mid tier and low tier world class: Thiago, Mane, Son, Bruno, KDB, Sterling.

Sums it up, there is no world class in the current Chelsea players in my opinion. Their XI aren’t that special about the same as ours. They have slightly better squad depth quality only.
 
UNITED ACADEMY said:
World class: Salah, VVD, Kane & prime Aguero

Mid tier and low tier world class: Thiago, Mane, Son, Bruno, KDB, Sterling.

Sums it up, there is no world class in the current Chelsea players in my opinion. Their XI aren’t that special about the same as ours. They have slightly better squad depth quality only.
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This nonsense.
Son, Silva , KDB and Mane are all world class, full stop.
 
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