Was pretty impressed with PSG. I knew they were good, but they really had Chelsea on the ropes for a good bit tonight.
Champions League Last 16 games - Feb/Mar 2015
- Thread starter Sarni
- Start date
I'm sure he'll be fine.
He's fine already, it's just cringey to see a top player get on like that. At least most of the other divers do it to help them get out of trouble rather than actively looking for free kicks.
This is why you need two scousers on a forum, and not one.
They need to look after each other like little kittens....Anymore then two though and you're asking for trouble.
It's why The Beatles went mad and started doing acid
They need to look after each other like little kittens....Anymore then two though and you're asking for trouble.
It's why The Beatles went mad and started doing acid
Hazard was being Rugby tackled at times. Multiple occasions where a PSG grabbed him around the shoulders, midsection, waist and/or legs.
I'm all for physical play, but grabbing a player and trying to tackle with your arms should be an auto yellow.
I also hate the line well he was consistent line as a defense. Being constantly shit shouldn't give the ref a pass.
Apparently persistent infringement
doesn't exist in Cakir's mind.
And finally it certainly went both ways.
Insecurity? Well I heard it all now. How did you manager to read insecurity in what I said, seriously that's as much of a leap as I can imagine. Skewed logic? Again? What? How? I support Manchester United which is a big club and was stating the view that as a fan of a big club, I think I am entitled to expect more authority and personality in the way a big club plays. Since I consider Chelsea to be a big club now as well, I was applying the principles to them. Last time I checked that's far from a unique view as pretty much everywhere you go, fans of big clubs demand attacking authoritative performances including our fans with Van Gaal. Of course if Chelsea fans are happy with it, that's their business but as far as I am aware we are here to state our views on such topics. Only that sounds insecure here is you as it feels like I touched a nerve for some reason.
This exactly! I don't think Mourinho would get that much criticism if this was something he does occasionally. The frustrating thing is that he takes it too far. He had a better team than United this season and still dropped deep after scoring. He did the same against 10 men City and again at home to City later on and that's only this season. If parking the bus is a strategy in certain games, that's fine and dandy but when you're associated with it in pretty much every big game you play, it's something else entirely. You're also right about the examples with Inter and Real Madrid. Although, I always felt he was a bit different when it came to Barcelona. He must really hate them.
Good,I'm glad you're not insecure. My bad. But my point remains, which is there is no correct definition of the 'beautiful game'. It really is in the eye of the beholder, so to suggest another man's approach (Mourinho in this case) is somehow selling their supporters short is nonsense. You could say Arsene Wenger as been selling Arsenal supporters short by playing this pretty football without addressing their defensive vulnerabilities. No PL title in how many years? Many would agree, but many wouldn't also. Some find the Serie A of the 90s, the ultimate in terms of how the game should be played, others found it dull as dishwater. Different philosophies have their own merits and to favour one over another is purely a matter of taste/ preference which in turn can be influenced by all manner of factors - culture, tradition , past or present heroes, legend etc...
Complaining about Chelsea's approach against any half decent opponent is like complaining about bad weather. Pointless.
I am very suspicious of this whole "it's a matter of opinion". Not really sure what I mean by this but I think what I am getting at is that there is a reason that the most fondly remembered teams are Brazil 1970, or the Madrid team from th '50s, maybe the modern Barcelona team. You ask our fans and most of them will tell you about the attacking gung-ho football we played under Busby and Fergie. When people talk about the best players, it's usually the attacking ones. The list goes on but you catch my drift. When we're at the playground and we have the ball, we aim to attack and score and go for it. I would go as far as call it the essence to football. Of course people can have individual preferences but then again there are people who think Zoolander is a better movie than The Godfather. I am not suggesting that the difference between those two movies is the same between defensive and attacking football. I am saying that there still remains a general definition of excellence in every field despite what some people might prefer.
I don't like this argument with Wenger as it always seems to pop up whenever people criticize Mourinho because my answer is no, I wouldn't like to have Wenger either and the reason is I don't see why we (Man United but you can insert any big club here) have to settle for either winning or not playing entertaining football. We have the status, finances, profile. We shouldn't be punching above our weight , we should be taking charge as we have the tools to do so. We don't have an excuse to take the easier option and yes I think defending is easier than attacking. I think in every field destroying is easier than creating. Maybe that's why creative players cost more and strikers are always recognized as the best and attacking teams are more fondly remembered.
I don"t disagree with you entirely.FWIW I do respect your opinion and I probably share your view regarding glorious attacking football. Hell, Cantona's my all time favourite UTD player and Zidane is my favourite player of all time. But there is also an inherent beauty in stopping the opposition, frustrating them, especially of you manage to do it consistently.The more it frustrates your opponent the sweeter it is! I don"t know if you follow boxing, but a Floyd Mayweather is the supreme defensive boxer. Undeniably the most gifted boxing technician of his generation. There is unbelievable skill in what he does and most will never be able to get near his level. Pacquiao,however, is my favourite boxer. Explosive, entertaining, manic, but flawed. Though I know my preference in terms of what captures my imagination style wise, I don't think I could argue one style is inferior to the other. I think the reason behind that is the underlying respect I have for winning at the highest level. So back to Chelsea, And Mourinho - can't bring myself to criticize a team or manager that is the best in our league , by some distance.
I really understand what I mean as I feel that this is such a common topic to discuss and it can be applied to anything. I don't follow boxing but that's what I mean by how it applies to everything. It is definitely true that there is a sweetness to frustrating an opponent. One of my favorite United games is that game at Old Trafford against Barcelona with Scholesy's winner. I also very much enjoyed the Chelsea vs Liverpool games in the CL, the ones famously referred to as shite on stick. However, I would have to disagree with the notion that one is not inferior to the other as I think creating something will always carry more style and capture the imagination more than destroying. I can enjoy the intensity of a strong dogged defensive performances more than an attacking one but it a strong display from Vidic will never rival watching Cantona, Giggs or Ronaldo doing his magic in terms of how much I admire it. Skill and talent to do something is what ultimately football is about from that moment we discover the game. I hope I am making myself clear as I do think it's a complex thing to explain.
As for Mourinho, I don't really see why Chelsea can't be criticized. Of course they are the best team in the league but you can be the best by being solid and efficient. Whereas I respect that, I never feel like I wish United to be the same. I respect the variety it creates and some of the games they're involved in but if it was United playing like that, I would be satisfied and be thankful that things could be much worse but far from ecstatic. Everyone in the country was criticizing our title winners from 2013 for pretty much the same reason and I understood what they meant. I couldn't put it down to jealousy as our 1999 winners are widely respected and acknowledged to have thrilled fans from everywhere so it is totally legitimate to talk distinguish between brute efficiency and class. I don't begrudge Atlético their approach one iota and I feel in terms of achievement, theirs last year is unparalleled in the modern game but that is because that is their only option considering their financial tools. Chelsea though? They should be doing better than just being efficient as far as I am concerned. Cheers by the way for the discussion, apologies if I sounded aggressive in the previous post.
To quote Hames Franco "They hate us cuz they ain't us. They hate us cuz they ain't us!"
Not sure it will be all that easy for Chelsea to progress
It may not be but Mourinho is so much better than Blanc as a coach he will have a game plan to win it and with the away goal it Chelsea the advantage. Having said that PSG have a lot of players with a lot of individual skill and those can be a big difference maker in any given match. I think Chelsea have a foot in the next round but you just never know.
No worries Theonas, I was a bit blunt methinks! Enjoying the debate. Again, I agree with the logic behind your argument, that given the tools at a teams disposal, they should perhaps aim for the ultimate. But on the flip side, at the highest sporting level (think CL Final, World Cup final and games en route), then I'd still say the ultimate goal, all things considered is to get that W. It's surely the hardest thing to achieve. No team, for instance has won back to back CL titles, incredibly given the spectacular teams that Munich or Bayern/Real have been in recent times. Get those multiple W's then you're in with a shout to be remembered as the greatest. Winners are noted in history, how they played is a side note (albeit not irrelevant). Back to reality though, with United, right now, I just want to be entertained and of course win a few trophies along the way!
The quality of football is definitely more than a side note. Everyone remembers the teams who win trophies in style far more clearly and far more fondly than the anti-football teams like Di Matteo's Chelsea. Speaking about people who aren't fans of the club here.
Also agree with @Theafonis, it's pretty damn strange that Mourinho is supposedly working with the best squad in England and yet people think it's understandable for him to park the bus every single big game. Which is it - is he not capable of getting a great squad to play good winning football or is the squad he has not as good as people say?
If you have a brilliant squad then how come the best option for getting a result is to play defensive football? Literally no other big side in the world does it as often as Chelsea...how come? If it was as good a method as people claim then surely every club would do it?
Also agree with @Theafonis, it's pretty damn strange that Mourinho is supposedly working with the best squad in England and yet people think it's understandable for him to park the bus every single big game. Which is it - is he not capable of getting a great squad to play good winning football or is the squad he has not as good as people say?
If you have a brilliant squad then how come the best option for getting a result is to play defensive football? Literally no other big side in the world does it as often as Chelsea...how come? If it was as good a method as people claim then surely every club would do it?
This is it you see. How is any style of play anti-football? There is no right way to play the beautiful game. That's why it's beautiful.
I have a bad feeling for tonight strangely. Well, or maybe not even strangely seeing as we've been awful lately. Schalke will be fired up to have their revenge for last year.
The best they can do is a 1-goal win that you will more than make up for in the return leg. There's no way you're going out against Schalke, they're dreadful. They'll put in a defensive shift today, they're managed by Di Matteo, so a 1-0 fluke win isn't out of question, at the end of the day the guy fluked the whole Champions League, but it's far more likely IMO that you will comfortably win there.
Amen to that last part! Concerning your point about CL finals and so on, I actually agree completely. I, like most United fans, can't bring myself to criticize Sir Alex but I really do wish he went all Mourinho on Barcelona in that 2011 final. I thought it was clear we didn't have a team as good as theirs and thought in that one game, our best chance to win is to do to them what Inter and Chelsea did to them the previous years. Like I said in the previous posts, my issue is not that Mourinho parks the bus in certain games, it is that it is his plan in 99% of the games against any half decent opposition. I brought up the examples of their game against us at OT, City's at the Etihad and City's at the Bridge and that's just one season. When it's a strategy you deploy when you have to, it's one thing and I'd call it tactical flexibility. When it's your only plan any time you play against a good team, it's small time lacking in any personality or authority that their status and finances should merit.No worries Theonas, I was a bit blunt methinks! Enjoying the debate. Again, I agree with the logic behind your argument, that given the tools at a teams disposal, they should perhaps aim for the ultimate. But on the flip side, at the highest sporting level (think CL Final, World Cup final and games en route), then I'd still say the ultimate goal, all things considered is to get that W. It's surely the hardest thing to achieve. No team, for instance has won back to back CL titles, incredibly given the spectacular teams that Munich or Bayern/Real have been in recent times. Get those multiple W's then you're in with a shout to be remembered as the greatest. Winners are noted in history, how they played is a side note (albeit not irrelevant). Back to reality though, with United, right now, I just want to be entertained and of course win a few trophies along the way!
I might disagree with you a bit on just how much of a side note the playing well thing is as I am not sure people remember Bayern Munich triumph in 2013 or Barcelona' in 2011 the same way they remember Chelsea's or Inter's. Inter even won a treble and you'd never hear them mentioned anywhere near the best European sides. When talking about stats, it is relevant as saying Madrid won 10 CL titles carries with its weight despite the fact that they won 5 of them in the '50s with everything that was going on at the time politically. But when it comes to singular triumphs, I think the style of the wins carries a lot of weight. Having said that, I'd be very happy now for a top 3 finish for us and an FA Cup even if we're playing boring football as long as it's not the long term plan which I don't think Van Gaal will do.
I think you referred to me as I don't see Theafonis making the point you bring up there. I agree with you definitely when it comes to the argument that they have a good team. I wouldn't use the same terminology though as I don't like the anti-football expression. I think I look at it as a sign of cowardice and small time mentality if anything.
PSG are a tough side to play against, big names in central defence.. serious quality in midfield and up top you have Zlatan and in Lavezzi you have a man who is a consistent threat in the big games. Not surprised at all by yesterdays game.
Chelsea will have their work cut out at home, this is a dangerous side. They're more of a cup team in my opinion as they have big personalities all across the side who relish a big game, if anything Zlatan is the biggest flop in that side in terms of big match mentality but his fear factor alone gives PSG personality and presence up top.
Chelsea looked feeble last night, keeping it tight is one thing but they were not controlled yesterday... they were being dragged around like a rag doll and got away with it. Hazard simply has to do more, Fabregas is just not a presence in big games.. lack the dynamism to have an impact, far too slow and invisible and if anything willian is the one who always catches my eye in these big games, top player.
Chelsea have to be super careful at the Bridge in my opinion, they are not the better team here so need to ensure they don't go gung-ho and get raped on the counter. Especially if Lucas, Pastore come into the first XI. I would go
Chelsea will have their work cut out at home, this is a dangerous side. They're more of a cup team in my opinion as they have big personalities all across the side who relish a big game, if anything Zlatan is the biggest flop in that side in terms of big match mentality but his fear factor alone gives PSG personality and presence up top.
Chelsea looked feeble last night, keeping it tight is one thing but they were not controlled yesterday... they were being dragged around like a rag doll and got away with it. Hazard simply has to do more, Fabregas is just not a presence in big games.. lack the dynamism to have an impact, far too slow and invisible and if anything willian is the one who always catches my eye in these big games, top player.
Chelsea have to be super careful at the Bridge in my opinion, they are not the better team here so need to ensure they don't go gung-ho and get raped on the counter. Especially if Lucas, Pastore come into the first XI. I would go
Lavezzi Ibra Lucas
Pastore Matuidi
Verratti
Maxwell Silva Luiz Marquinhos
Sirigu
Pastore Matuidi
Verratti
Maxwell Silva Luiz Marquinhos
Sirigu
di Matteo will try to di Matteo you. A chain of ten to absorb all the pressure and the odd free-kick to test your keeper.
But I must say that although most of their players are in bad shape right now, they're looking as a solid team that will be difficult to beat. (You have to go several years and a few coaches back to find a Schalke team that was as solid defensively as this one.)
Nah, I don't think they will have much issues in the return leg. They lost 3-1 in Paris last season and looked dead and buried yet came back and beat them 2-0 at home. This season they're coming away with a much better result and only need to avoid a defeat, they are much more comfortable at home and Mourinho will probably set them up defensively to absorb all pressure PSG might put on them. I think it will be a comfortable 1-0/2-0 win for Chelsea.
Thoughts on the Basel vs Porto game? Don't know much about either side this season.
Much better result and a much better team this season. I agree, can't see any issues for Chelsea in the return leg
Looking forward to seeing the Real team and performance tonight
They're probably a bit lucky that they're *only* facing Schalke because they've been in poor form since Christmas. They've got more points post-Christmas than their performances merit.
Don't expect anything other than a Madrid win tonight though.
Yep they will probably have to dig deep for the victory but I expect them to win. I wonder will Ancelotti make any tactical changes to specifically target what will surely be a very defensive/countering team, even more so that they are probably used to facing?
Ancelotti doesn't change much so I doubt it. I'd expect the usual front 3 with Isco, Kroos and one of Lucas Silva/Illarramendi in midfield (Khedira injured).
Pepe is back though.
Hilarity ensues!
A one nil for them would be a pretty bad score for us. Even 0-0 as I could see any team scoring home or away against us at the moment with our defensive woes.
Does that Draxler fella still play there btw? I dreamt he was the one to score the goal that would knock us out.
He's injured, that part of your dream won't come true.Does that Draxler fella still play there btw? I dreamt he was the one to score the goal that would knock us out.
A one nil for them would be a pretty bad score for us. Even 0-0 as I could see any team scoring home or away against us at the moment with our defensive woes.
Does that Draxler fella still play there btw? I dreamt he was the one to score the goal that would knock us out.
He does yeah. Don't really watch Schalke to know if he's progressed well though.
Huntelaar to get his revenge?
When is Modric supposed to come back from his long term injury ? I really hope Carlo will play him and Isco at the same time.
He was supposed to be back by now but either had a set back or didn't recover as quickly as hoped. Still a few weeks away now.
Thumbs up!
He'll probably be too easy eating grass.He does yeah. Don't really watch Schalke to know if he's progressed well though.
Huntelaar to get his revenge?
Didn't he score a screamer against us last year?
Thumbs up!
He'll probably be too easy eating grass.
Didn't he score a screamer against us last year?
Not 100% but that does ring a bell so you're probably right.
It always seems like half of Schalke's team is always injured.