Much better than Xavi? Surely not in regards to passing, i don't think that's possible. That's a bold statement my friend.
Cesc Fabregas
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Much better than Xavi? Surely not in regards to passing, i don't think that's possible. That's a bold statement my friend.
That's quite an interesting thread topic altogether, it's quite telling.
Some he keeps them until they are no good/old.
The ones leaving early against his will have attracted interest through great form but regress somewhat in less appropriate sides, or just perform like the mercenaries they are. You could say Cole improved further at Chelsea, RvP too early to tell.
Conversely, I can't think of anyone he willingly let go who actually became any better. Lassana Diarra maybe?
It's quite stunning when you think of it. It is very hard to find examples to question his judgement on transfers OUT. It's in the IN bit where he has had it more 50-50. Part is obviously knowing a player better by the time he is being transfered out, but to what extent does his insistence on budget fees and wages make him sign people he actually knows are subpar?
Agree, it's part of a "project" and a nailed on eventual move. I find that, as it turns out, he has been pretty wasted for a couple of seasons now and probably will for yet another one. Just think of how much he could have accomplished being Arsenal's main man, being responsible for making it all work, leading the team...
I reckon he would be a much improved player today while still on track to do his "project".
See above. Rubbish was not the right term.
What I find disappointing is that he hasn't got any better than he was pre-World Cup. That's when the transfer saga started in earnest, then two peripheral years...
It WILL deliver what he wanted all along eventually, I just don't see the whole rush being justified.
I know, transfers and windows of opportunity can't be calibrated to everyone's wishes, but, errrr, I've been quite disappointed myself as a spectator who appreciated his promising talent. You see, that's where it is rubbish
He should move when it pleases ME. 
Disliked a lot about him personality-wise but a really awesome player in the making he was, no doubt and one that had me watching Arsenal games with great football-loving interest.
His vision is at a comparable level, just needs to fine tune it to the Barca model and style of play, which should take half a season playing in a deeper role than he is in right now.
Agree, it's part of a "project" and a nailed on eventual move. I find that, as it turns out, he has been pretty wasted for a couple of seasons now and probably will for yet another one. Just think of how much he could have accomplished being Arsenal's main man, being responsible for making it all work, leading the team...
I reckon he would be the better player today.
See above. Maybe rubbish is a bit extreme/misplaced. What I find disappointing is that he hasn't got any better than he was pre-World Cup. That's when the transfer saga started ine arnest, then two peripheral years...
It WILL deliver what he wanted all along eventually, I just don't see the whole rush being justified. I know, transfers and windows of opportunity can't be calibrated to everyone's wishes, but I've been quite disappointed, errr, myself as a spectator who appreciated his promising talent. You see, that's where it is rubbish
Disliked a lot about him personality-wise but a really awesome player in the making he was, no doubt.
I understand you, I think you feel that he has been a bit restrained as a player when moving to Barca.He isn't the club's main man and as a result he isn't as exciting to watch as he used to be for Arsenal.
I really agree with that, I enjoyed to watch him in England and it felt like him he moved too soon to Barca from our POV but for him it was a dream.He was afraid that a chance like that would never happen again
I agree he has it in him and thought the point of his early transfer was that transition and fine tuning. But have they done it? No
Two and a half years to "adapt to Barca and their style" doesn't cut it, he was there before, played with most for Spain, knows the ethos... and he came from Arsenal, not Stoke FFS.
They have a massive lead in the league and may be out of the CL, so we may soon see that tuning and whether it works.
He probably is 'better' in terms of his skill set already but that doesn't mean he can replace Xavi, maybe he will grow in to it but he lacks the composure and patience of Xavi.
He showed composure and patience well beyond his years. Unless he's suddenly decided that impatience and immaturity is the way to go as he grows older, I don't think that should be an issue.
However, all this is moot until Barca actually try him in that position for a consistent run of games. It'll be interesting to see how he performs then.
However, all this is moot until Barca actually try him in that position for a consistent run of games. It'll be interesting to see how he performs then.
I'm finding it difficult to conceive of how any midfielder is going to be "much better" than the best central midfielder since Matthaus and most likely the best give-and-go midfielder of all time.
I'm not convinced he is a more creative passer. More likely to try the through ball yes, and more suited as a second striker/false 9, but is the success rate any higher? Xavi's 33 assists from deep in 08/09 and the way he's compiled such a stunning portfolio of defence-splitting passes, all while executing unparalleled levels of ball retention, suggests they're on par in that respect.
The first Caf Xavi myth was that Iniesta=Xavi+dribbling.
The second is Fabrergas=Xavi+goals
It's not as simple as that and is a severe under-appreciation of what it takes to consistently dominate the heart of midfield at the highest levels over the course of 5-6 seasons. His indispensibility, rather than just 'another cog in the wheel', is shown by the stark contrast in Spain's performance levels with and without him.
Ultimately Fabregas is the one player you'd want to have as a long-term replacement for Xavi. But he's got 5-6 seasons of midfield domination ahead of him before we can entertain a 'who's better' debate.
Agree completely, although I don't know of this myth you speak of.
Cesc has reveled being the star performer in a good to average team, and I think that's where the difference lies. His ability to step up and play the same role for this Barcelona team is something that will separate him from the rest.
Since I'm now repeating myself, I shall wait for a season or two before making an assessments.
Oh how I miss the days when we would have a Cesc thread every week.
Everytime he's played in central midfield he's been horrendous this season. In fact, regardless of position/role, the one great game I can remember him having this season was Deportivo away.
I've seen a lot of chatter from Barcelona fans who feel Iniesta is being shoehorned into the LW position in a bid to fit Cesc into the side; against the smaller sides this tends to pay off and -- lo and behold -- Iniesta is actually having his most statistically effective season yet because of this (and thanks to Alba as well). In the big games however, they need Iniesta, not Cesc, in midfield, and one of Villa/Tello/Sánchez at LW. A mainstay criticism of Fàbregas among Barça fans is that he slows play down too often.
Well I hope he has a horrible next couple of seasons and then pines for North London.
Spot on
Really?
Is he really doing any better though? Playing in a much better team and his scoring stats are similar to last season.
When it comes to setting up a goal or scoring imo he is better than Xavi or Iniesta, his problem though is their general all round pass and move game is far superior to his. He needs to relearn how to play the Barca way but it is easy to forget for 8 seasons he played with us so if anything is more accustomed to the English/Arsenal way than the Spanish/Barca way.
Yeah, Van Persie has 23 goals in 33 appearances for club this season. He had 37 in 48 last season so he's actually scored at a lesser rate than last year.
If you'd watched Fabregas at 17 you wouldn't need to ask.
More sub appearances this time round and he is also playing with more goalscorers this time round. I don't think he has improved as a player though given he is already at his peak. It's remarkable enough that he settled in straight away.
While I agree RvP can't be said to have performed better for us (he was immense for you) I don't think it's only the goals that should be looked into.
I may be wrong, but while he seemed to be the guy who bailed you out with goals (which he is doing for us too), what I've been most impressed with is how much he offers everywhere else on the pitch.
Against Real for instance, the way he constantly cleared corners on the first post, the way he was just about the only guy I felt completely calm when he was on the ball in our defensive third... that flick on Monday against Reading
I don't mean to sound like a Pool fan raving about Heskey as a defensive striker, but people have this false illusion of forwards just fannying around upfront during defensive phases, when it is only ever one pacey one that should be doing that to keep the backs worried about the ball into space (Welbeck against Real). The rest should be able to contribute defensively and in the transition to attack and he has been quite a revelation for me there.
Did you have the same perception of him at Arsenal? I had never quite picked on that, maybe because I never watched your games with the sort of fan desperation for someone to show composure and an outlet to calm things the feck down when under pressure.
I would guess Henry and then Walcott would have been tasked with the lead the counter job I referred to earlier so he must have been doing it for you, but I never really noticed.
Rumours circulating that Barcelona are willing to sell for a decent price.
If Barcelona were to sell Cesc, Arsenal have first option, having inserted a clause upon the sale. £30m to have him back.
The bloke I know at Arsenal who keeps me hanging with his ITK information from the club shop tells me that the club are keeping an eye on it.
If Barcelona were to sell Cesc, Arsenal have first option, having inserted a clause upon the sale. £30m to have him back.
The bloke I know at Arsenal who keeps me hanging with his ITK information from the club shop tells me that the club are keeping an eye on it.
He might not wanna go back to Arsenal. All those quotes about Arsenal before he left were just to keep the fans sweet.
Yeah Iv heard a few rumours about him being for sale, they need the cash to strengthen then squad elsewhere apparently. He's still only 25 (amazed by that tbh) and would be a decent singing for pretty much anybody in Europe. I think they might have to take a little below £30m though.
I thought he was Xavi's heir?
Why is it not really working out for him at Barca?
Well to begin with they did not really need him YET. And last season they changed their formation just to try and accommodate him from a 4-2-3-1 to a 3-4-3. If the big guns are fit, him and Thiago have to come of the bench. Too many options for them in central midfield and two many world class midfielders?
City are probably going to try their best to lure him if he's on the move because he's exactly the sort of player they are missing in their central midfield (apart from a better defensive midfielder than Garcia, Barry and Rodwell) but I imagine we'll be having a look as well. I still don't think Barca are going to let him to because realistically he's going to replace Xavi in just a couple of years but then again, if they are looking for money then there aren't many players they could sell.
He made a classic mistake moving there, yeah he's won titles but he's never really played enough and when he has its been in the wrong role. I'd love us to get him but he seems like he'd stay loyal to Arsenal, that said his choice is pretty much between the PL and Bundesliga. Maybe we'll see City and Chelsea competing for him whilst we sign another two strikers
Barca won't sell him.
Even if he leaves Barcelona, he wouldn't come back to Arsenal. Us, Chelsea and City will be interested in him.
He won't join us. When RVP joined us, I'm sure I read that he tweeted that he was shocked regarding the Arsenal to United jump. I just get the feeling he'd be too loyal to Arsenal.
Never wanted him back in the first place, would love it to be true. He spent too long away and doesn't fit in the squad/style, tactical adjustments would be needed for his inclusion let alone starting role.
I don't see him joining us, but I doubt he'll head back to Arsenal. Not now he's tasted success.
If he's going to come back to England, he'll join Arsenal. Otherwise, I can see him going to Italy.
Christ, who's your insider? Arrogant post.
Would you consider him to have been so poor a signing he's not even worth having around as a sub?
You guys must be sick of signing players from Arsenal by now.
Yeah it is really dragging their quality down.
Hleb and Song have been disastrous. Cesc's not been a roaring success. Henry went there after his prime. It's a terrible record.
I think it's still hard to judge Cesc at Barca, a little like Xavi in his early days there too. In saying that, I'd have him in a second at United were Barca to sell him which would be a mistake on their part.
It's not arrogance though. Arsenal are a tier two club, it'd be too much of a step down from Barcelona to join Arsenal.
I suppose we could sign him. He would be Ok coming off the bench now and then.
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