Yeah, I know the domestic abuse bit, just wasn't sure outside that.
Celebrity Allegations, #MeToo etc
- Thread starter Buchan
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Yeah, I know the domestic abuse bit, just wasn't sure outside that.
Any complaint where the witness can identify the suspect. It’s not limited to domestics, but domestics are where it happens most. but yeah, any crime you are the victim of, your complaint can be enough to get the ball rolling. Getting a conviction on just that though will be a tall order.
Should stress though, I have no idea if this is the law in South Korea.
Who says that I do not take women or the police seriously? I do, however, have difficulty taking allegations seriously when there is little or no evidence to back them up other than the word of one person over another. I also have a problem if the allegations are being made only now based on an alleged incident that occurred 5 years ago. Why was a report not made at the time of the alleged incident? How can either party prove their case if there are no witnesses?
Again, from where do you have impression that this is the case here? If you've got a source for this claim, then by all means share it with us. If not then you're basically just virtue signalling.
You very clearly learned the wrong lesson from MeToo ("I have stopped taking these allegations seriously").
This is a case where the South Korean justice system has decided to charge O Yeong-su with a crime. Who says you don't take the South Korean justice system seriousy? You do, here:
You seem to ignore the other part of my post where I said... "Unless there are witnesses...or a text trail...or the woman was a minor"
What I refuse to do however is convict/condemn someone solely on the basis of an accusation and this to me is where the MeToo movement seems to be heading.
This is the same guy who:
Used to be a cop:
Thinks executing dogs is deescalating:
and makes fun of an unarmed person getting shot 90 times:
He didn't learn any lesson from MeToo, positive or negative. There was nothing to be learned, people like this have never had any regard for human life unless those pieces of meat act exactly as ordered to.
Wow!
If you have the time maybe you should look at the history of my posts on that thread and you might get a much clearer view of my position.. I was speaking about the racism in policing in America long before the tide turned with George Floyd and also when it was not that popular to do so. I am not and have never been a police officer but I have been an officer of the law
Wow!
If you have the time maybe you should look at the history of my posts on that thread and you might get a much clearer view of my position.. I was speaking about the racism in policing in America long before the tide turned with George Floyd and also when it was not that popular to do so. I am not and have never been a police officer but I have been an officer of the law
Play stupid games ..Win stupid prizes!
There is no need for repetition, people can click on the quotes and read your script. You don't deviate.
About the shooting that @Goalfather found so funny, Jayland Walker had 46 entrance wounds when he died. He was unarmed.
This is hilarious...I must admitThis you?
You are showing your true colours. You are deliberately taking my posts out of context
The guy opened fire on the police while being pursued. In that instance, the police were justified in returning fire. Once you open fire on police and refuse to surrender, then all bets are off and the likely outcome will be that you will be killed. It is not the wisest decision to open fire on police!
There is a plethora of reasons why women feel unable to report when sexual assault and rape immediately after they have occurred. Victim blaming, shame, fear of not being believed, the fear of losing their integrity, losing their job. etc, fear of wasting their own time, the time of authorities. The list goes on. My wife was the victim of sexual assault, and it took weeks of speaking to her to get her to even consider speaking to the police, and in the end she didn't. The person who did that to her was the partner of a work colleague as well as someone she considered a friend, whereby reporting it would have opened a can of worms, complicating a working relationship and a friendship, and in the end she didn't want to create that difficult situation.
Besides, the actual conviction rate of sexual assault and rape is incredibly low. It's understandable why many may think it is a waste of time and resources at the time it happens.
I am genuinely sorry that it happened to someone that you loved. My aim was not to trivialise rape and other forms of sexual assault. I, also, have friends who were victims of rape and/or sexual abuse and who managed to navigate to the other end. Two of them were teenagers at the time and both managed, thank God, to make it out on the other side in an environment that neither encourages reporting nor provides therapy to victims of abuse. One only confided in her parent when she realized she was pregnant and was beaten and then taken to have a backstreet abortion which left her ill for weeks and another who at the time I met her had tried to commit suicide twice. In my opinion rape and sexual abuse are capital crimes.
It does not negate, however, the legal maxim that he/she who alleges must prove, it is there for a reason, to prevent innocent people from wrongful and malicious prosecution and I believe that this Celebrity/Me Too movement is swinging the pendulum too far the other way. There are many people whose lives have been changed by false accusations and that is also underreported and a fact that the Me Too movement conveniently ignores. I am glad that victims of real sexual assault now have an environment to come forward and tell their stories and have a greater chance of receiving justice. But it is also naive to believe that there are people and the number is not small who will take advantage of this environment to exact revenge for petty slights, grievances or for profit.
How does someone go about proving they've been sexually assaulted?
People like you honestly make me sick.
How do you prove that you did not sexually assault someone if falsely accused?
You don't...? The legal burden of proof isn't on the defendant.
You can't. So then you have to decide what's more likely to have happened.
All the stats point to the amount of sexual assaults that go unreported far, far outweighing the number of false accusations. But people like you choose to believe the accused rather than the accuser. Why?
I don't even know you but I can bet that you personally would know far more people who have been sexually assaulted than people who have been falsely accused. And yet you're still siding with the accused?
Game’s gone.
definitely not as lucrative as it used to be.
You are correct on both counts but I also know of quite a few false accusations. You see the police are generally unlikely to prosecute women for making those allegations and many of the falsely accused are so relieved to be free of that burden that they are unlikely to pursue the matter to get civil relief. Therefore those stats are also often under-reported.
Whereas they're extremely likely to prosecute allegations of sexual assault?
seriously, what planet do you live on?I'm not denying that people make false allegations but they're far outweighed by the number of sexual assaults. Again, I find it weird that you'd prefer to give the benefit of doubt to the accused.
Isn’t that exactly what’s supposed to happen? Otherwise why bother with a trial?Whereas they're extremely likely to prosecute allegations of sexual assault?
I'm not denying that people make false allegations but they're far outweighed by the number of sexual assaults. Again, I find it weird that you'd prefer to give the benefit of doubt to the accused.
How about not giving anyone the benefit of the doubt and just await the trial?
Seen an article that comedian Katherine Ryan has said it's an open secret a famous tv star is a predator.
Do they hold no moral or ethical values at all to report said person to the police?
What if the person abuses/attacks someone else?
Do they hold no moral or ethical values at all to report said person to the police?
What if the person abuses/attacks someone else?
That’s what I mean really, just hold fire on any assumptions until the facts come out. It isn’t perfect but it’s still the best system we’ve got up to this point.How about not giving anyone the benefit of the doubt and just await the trial?
If it hasn’t happened to them then what can they do? I’m assuming they’ve tried to talk the victims into coming forward but they just don’t want to. They’re probably very aware of what can happen if they just name and shame people with no evidence. It’s a tough situation for her to be in.
Why do you not answer the question? Where did you get the idea that this has anything to do with this specific case? If you're just looking to vent (or virtue signal), you should have made that absolutely clear and not replied directly to a post about a specific case.
It's not about believing the accused over the accuser. The problem is that there are false reports, people lie whether for compensation, revenge or simply to receive attention. There's many documented cases. Let's say 20% of cases are false, are we happy with those 20% being imprisoned and cancelled?
What do you think would actually happen if Katherine Ryan were to report this to the police?
Less than 2% of rape cases reported to the police in England & Wales in 2020 resulted in a charge, so that's the very depressing context. And in this particular case she has zero evidence, zero first hand experience and would literally just be reporting rumour. Even if she could name someone she thinks might have been assaulted, that person is someone who either didn't want to report it to the police themselves or already reported it to no effect. What reason would anyone have to believe that report is going to prevent anyone from being attacked?
Given all the reasons women are disinclined to report their own sexual assaults to the police, it's a bit much to expect them to report rumours about other people. Especially when the person they'd be accusing is someone who, according to Ryan, "lots of people" have already failed to hold to account.
And beyond that, if women reported every single story or rumour they heard about other women being sexually assaulted then they'd barely be out of contact with the police.
Let's not
https://www.maine.gov/dps/mcja/docs/Mandatory-Law/Handout 2 - So How Many Rape Reports are False.doc
https://www.brown.edu/campus-life/h...g-violence/myths-about-sexual-assault-reports
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-45565684
https://web.archive.org/web/2018010...gov/conference/handouts/False-Allegations.pdf
For other crimes, yeah I'd agree. Sexual assault is different, in my opinion, purely because of the nature of it and how difficult it is to prove.
It just doesn't sit right that she's happy to say in an interview it's well know this star is a predator (kids?) But then not try and do something about it.
I don't know what the solution is but it's maddening that nothing can be done about these kinds of people
Shouldn't it always only be about two things; the presumption of innocence until proven guilty, and the proper presentation/proof of valid evidence, that removes any doubt.
If, in the cases of assault/rape, the current burden of proof in law is at present deemed to be set too high, then the laws on evidence should be changed.
The problem in many rape cases seems always to be, especially between adults of legal age, to come down to whether consent was asked for/given or refused.
If, in the cases of assault/rape, the current burden of proof in law is at present deemed to be set too high, then the laws on evidence should be changed.
The problem in many rape cases seems always to be, especially between adults of legal age, to come down to whether consent was asked for/given or refused.
It's not particularly high in most western judicial systems. Presumption of innoncence is the cornerstone of criminal law in most civilized countries and cannot be tempered with unless its for very, very specific reasons (minors for exemple since we consider they can't really give their informed consent).
That's the drama in sexual misconduct or rape cases, victims are supposed to prove they didn't give their consent and that's rarely possible unless there's visible traces of agression (i'll spear you the details), but there's not a whole lot you can change in the law to make it easier without tempering with presumption of innocence. The real first step would be to train police officers so they actually know how to deal with victims properly, beacuse it's rarely the case, a lot of them are not taken seriously.
I'm a lawyer btw.
The fact that this has been twisted to make Katherine Ryan the bad guy and not, you know, the star who’s a sexual predator (no mention of kids in the allegation) is a very good example of why lots of victims don’t come forward.