Celebrity Allegations, #MeToo etc

Nikhil said:


I feel terrible for the poor girl. It's actually very common for women to face this type of behaviour from men. Two female friends of mine have told me they faced this kind of stuff whilst on dates when men didn't know when to stop and continued to kiss, grope etc even when they were told no.

Even more crazy is that most of Ansari's shows and stand up is based on dating and his dating life and how blokes should behave with women and how they should be nice and all that. That article is repulsive.
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This is how her decision to go public should be viewed in a broader context to the MeToo movement.

 
Eboue said:
I think a lot of people here are over simplifying this. I've read a lot of women on this story say that it's not just as simple as saying "I want to leave" because what comes next could be "ok I'll call you a cab" or it could be "you're not going anywhere". It probably would have been the first one, but they just don't know and sometimes feel like not bringing the issue to a head is the best way to quietly get out of there.
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The argument that he's not her boss, so he doesn't have any power over her is also wrong. He's a famous person, which (as a result of our society practically worshipping them) means he holds power over her. He's also a man, who in the majority of casual encounters hold some form of power over the woman, even if it's just the physical advantage.
adexkola said:
"Suck my dick lady"

"No"

"Ok"

Nothing problematic with that.
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There are many reasons for why someone might not just say no, and just rather do something and get it over with than face the potential consequences. Plenty of women have said as much, so going "lol just say no, you silly bint" isn't really a valid argument.
 
Halftrack said:
The argument that he's not her boss, so he doesn't have any power over her is also wrong. He's a famous person, which (as a result of our society practically worshipping them) means he holds power over her. He's also a man, who in the majority of casual encounters hold some form of power over the woman, even if it's just the physical advantage.

There are many reasons for why someone might not just say no, and just rather do something and get it over with than face the potential consequences. Plenty of women have said as much, so going "lol just say no, you silly bint" isn't really a valid argument.
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Are women adults? Of course they are. Then let's ask that women stand up for their rights and wants. Being a man is not, in and of itself, a means of coercion. I'm sure I misunderstood you there because otherwise the concept that I have to go out of my way so that an (adult) woman or anyone of a lesser status or physical stature, feels comfortable with saying no is crazy.
 
adexkola said:
Are women adults? Of course they are. Then let's ask that women stand up for their rights and wants. Being a man is not, in and of itself, a means of coercion. I'm sure I misunderstood you there because otherwise the concept that I have to go out of my way so that an (adult) woman or anyone of a lesser status or physical stature, feels comfortable with saying no is crazy.
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And yet, women say the opposite. That being pressured into sex by creeps like Aziz happens. That they've had the shit kicked out of them by angry men, have head stories of the like, and don't feel comfortable when a lustful man is staring at them with dead eyes. Hence them being fecked pissed off with the way men behave.
 
adexkola said:
Are women adults? Of course they are. Then let's ask that women stand up for their rights and wants. Being a man is not, in and of itself, a means of coercion. I'm sure I misunderstood you there because otherwise the concept that I have to go out of my way so that an (adult) woman or anyone of a lesser status or physical stature, feels comfortable with saying no is crazy.
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We can do this as soon as we finish eradicating domestic violence.
 
Raoul said:
Not before repeatedly sticking around for more attempts by him after claiming previous things he did made her uncomfortable.
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She voiced the discomfort, thought it was over, and he just kept going. Is it really that difficult to believe that someone in their early 20s didn't know how to get out of a horrific situation?
 
Silva said:
She voiced the discomfort, thought it was over, and he just kept going. Is it really that difficult to believe that someone in their early 20s didn't know how to get out of a horrific situation?
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She should've left. But opted instead to write a dramatic story so she could feel like she was apart of the herd behavior sentiment of the #MeToo movement, and in the process, damage his career.

Therefore the video I posted was spot on. She has damaged the movement and his career by her attempt at momentary self-aggrandizement.
 
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Silva said:
She voiced the discomfort, thought it was over, and he just kept going. Is it really that difficult to believe that someone in their early 20s didn't know how to get out of a horrific situation?
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She should have left.
 
Raoul said:
She should've left. But opted instead to write a dramatic story so she could feel like she was apart of the herd behavior sentiment of the #MeToo movement, and in the process, damage his career.

Therefore the video I posted was spot on. She has damaged the movement and his career by her attempt at momentary self-aggrandizement.
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I don't know if you paid attention to the MeToo movement, but Grace's story lines up with what women were and are saying. But I guess Aziz is too much of a national treasure for her story to be worth anything.
 
Just listen to women. Try to understand where they are coming from instead of telling them what they should have done. Why's that so hard?
 
Silva said:
She voiced the discomfort, thought it was over, and he just kept going. Is it really that difficult to believe that someone in their early 20s didn't know how to get out of a horrific situation?
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Yes! The mind boggles. If this is widespread then let's do some public education sessions on what to do when someone asks you for something you don't wanna give.

Eboue said:
We can do this as soon as we finish eradicating domestic violence.
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I'm not sure what the connection is between that and this. If you're saying that the threat of violence prevents women from speaking in such situations, then we just have to all admit we may have had unlawful sex at some point in our lives and proceed from there.
 
Silva said:
I don't know if you paid attention to the MeToo movement, but Grace's story lines up with what women were and are saying. But I guess Aziz is too much of a national treasure for her story to be worth anything.
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I don't think it has anything to do with the MeToo movement.

What power did Ansari have over her or her career ? None.

Did he hold her hostage ? No.

Did he sexually assault or rape her ? No

Was she free to tell him to feck off at any point ? Yes

Did she ? No

What she did opt to do was damage his career so she could feel apart of a movement that has nothing to do with people who persist in sticking around on bad dates.

In a nutshell....if things aren't going your way then simply opt out. Don't stick around and cry about having stuck around because you later regret not having left.
 
kps88 said:
Just listen to women. Try to understand where they are coming from instead of telling them what they should have done. Why's that so hard?
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Why have a conversation then? Why not just tell everyone here (except @vi1lain and the few other women) to just shut the feck up?

The world doesn't work like that. We have to live together and work together and find subsets of people we can feck, so why not iron all this shit out instead of shouting down any voice that is slightly jarring?
 
adexkola said:
Yes! The mind boggles. If this is widespread then let's do some public education sessions on what to do when someone asks you for something you don't wanna give.
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That's exactly what women are asking for. Particularly, teaching men it's not okay to carry on trying to stick their dicks in places are before they have permission to stick it somewhere.

Raoul said:
I don't think it has anything to do with the MeToo movement.

What power did Ansari have over her or her career ? None.

Did he hold her hostage ? No.

Did he sexually assault or rape her ? No

Was she free to tell him to feck off at any point ? Yes

Did she ? No

What she did opt to do was damage his career so she could feel apart of a movement that has nothing to do with people who persist in sticking around on bad dates.

In a nutshell....if things aren't going your way then simply opt out. Don't stick around and cry about having stuck around because you later regret not having left.
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He did assault her. She told him she wasn't in it, and he kept trying to kiss, grope and feck her. And prior, he was doing it without consent.
 
Silva said:
That's exactly what women are asking for. Particularly, teaching men it's not okay to carry on trying to stick their dicks in places are before they have permission to stick it somewhere.


He did assault her. She told him she wasn't in it, and he kept trying to kiss, grope and feck her. And prior, he was doing it without consent.
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She willingly performed oral sex on him. You would have a snow balls chance in hell convincing any neutral arbiter that such an encounter could be construed as assault.
 
Raoul said:
She willingly performed oral sex on him. You would have a snow balls chance in hell convincing any neutral arbiter that such an encounter could be construed as assault.
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If a woman gives you 10 seconds of head and then pulls away, you might have just shoved your dick in her mouth without permission.
 
I read the article. My first reaction was that it's the classic "celeb, bad one night stand" kiss and tell story rewritten for 2018. But it wasn't even really that, she wanted a date, he wanted a one night stand. His celebrity only entered the equation as an angle to question him on hypocrisy, which is fair enough but probably irrelevant to me, because I'm not part of his audience.

So what I drew from it. He's an insensitive idiot who you wouldn't want to date, or have sex with. Whereas she's missed the bit about sexual freedom, that means if you want to use it as part of your own life, then you're responsible for your own conduct - including deciding where things stop and communicating that.

Body language offers great clues, if you're emotionally and sexually compatible it may well offer all the clues you need. If you aren't emotionally and sexually compatible then there's a good chance that relying on it won't work. That's kind of why people usually go out on a date - to find out the chances of that compatibility existing.

It's usually safer, emotionally and physically, to find that out while you're both still fully clothed, and to do it before you're alone in a private apartment. If you do end up alone together after a date - then words become vital. Maybe that's something people have to re-learn (even if it sounds like a throwback to 50 years ago) - empathy isn't a synonym for mindreading. A concept that ideally should work both ways, the eager one asking, the more reticent one responding honestly and directly. Incompatibility is exactly that, which may mean that what's obvious discomfort to one person may just not be seen in the same light by the other one.
 
adexkola said:
Why have a conversation then? Why not just tell everyone here (except @vi1lain and the few other women) to just shut the feck up?

The world doesn't work like that. We have to live together and work together and find subsets of people we can feck, so why not iron all this shit out instead of shouting down any voice that is slightly jarring?
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Look at the sentence after the one you highlighted. Just saying she was wrong and should have left isn't having a conversation or trying to iron stuff out. Understanding why she and many other women are not able to "just leave" is more productive. You can't have a proper conversation without properly listening to the aggrieved party.
 
Silva said:
If a woman gives you 10 seconds of head and then pulls away, you might have just shoved your dick in her mouth without permission.
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It doesn't matter if its for 1/10 of one second or an entire hour. She consciously did it, and as such, undercut any future ability to publicly moan about doing something she may have not wanted to do at the beginning of the evening. She should own up to her own choice and chalk it up to an experience from which to opt out next time.
 
Silva said:
That's exactly what women are asking for. Particularly, teaching men it's not okay to carry on trying to stick their dicks in places are before they have permission to stick it somewhere.
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You're not wrong in the general sense, but I'm not sure how that connects to this situation, where they were already in a sexual state. The absurd end of this argument is him being concerned about consent to the point of insult. Expecting men/women to be mind readers otherwise will always result in situations like this where the woman and man end up with different versions of what happened.
 
kps88 said:
Look at the sentence after the one you highlighted. Just saying she was wrong and should have left isn't having a conversation or trying to iron stuff out. Understanding why she and many other women are not able to "just leave" is more productive. You can't have a proper conversation without properly listening to the aggrieved party.
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That's obviously a major concern for a lot of woman, and I can understand that in many situations they're physically threatened in intimate encounters in a way that men (for the most part) just aren't.

But if a person is uncomfortable with something that's happening in a sexual situation then there's still got to be an onus on them to communicate that. If she was uncomfortable in giving him oral then she should've said so directly. And I say that as someone who thinks Ansari acted poorly here and was at best forceful and insensitive.
 
This is just going in circles here. Even if the first part of the sexual encounter could be blamed on a misunderstanding. Him trying to feck her after she said no can't be.
 
kps88 said:
Just listen to women. Try to understand where they are coming from instead of telling them what they should have done. Why's that so hard?
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There are plenty of women who themselves don't agree with the takes in babe article so this is not an issue people have universally agreed upon one way or another. Wapo, NYT have multiple articles with varying takes on it by women authors.
 
adexkola said:
I'm not sure what the connection is between that and this. If you're saying that the threat of violence prevents women from speaking in such situations, then we just have to all admit we may have had unlawful sex at some point in our lives and proceed from there.
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Correct. And how we proceed is to start listening and taking seriously what they say.
 
Silva said:
This is just going in circles here. Even if the first part of the sexual encounter could be blamed on a misunderstanding. Him trying to feck her after she said no can't be.
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Sounds like your average run of the mill bad date to me. #MeToo
 
crappycraperson said:
There are plenty of women who themselves don't agree with the takes in babe article so this is not an issue people have universally agreed upon one way or another. Wapo, NYT have multiple articles with varying takes on it by women authors.
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Sure, good for them. There's also women out there who feel the entire movement is a witch hunt. Doesn't mean we stop listening to the ones that do feel aggrieved and have found themselves in similar situations.
 
Halftrack said:
The argument that he's not her boss, so he doesn't have any power over her is also wrong. He's a famous person, which (as a result of our society practically worshipping them) means he holds power over her. He's also a man, who in the majority of casual encounters hold some form of power over the woman, even if it's just the physical advantage.
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Don't agree with this at all. If he enjoyed any power as a celeb, that's due to the girl's desire of dating a celeb or putting importance to his status and even then that status alone can not be a reason for being pressured into giving someone a blowjob. I agree that men have more power to sway an encounter into one direction or another but I don't believe in this particular case at any point the girl in question was under the threat of being physically forced to do something she did not want to. If she was, she would have said as much in the babe article given she verbalised every single thought she had in it.
 
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