Celebrity Allegations, #MeToo etc

SteveJ said:
Granted, but the victims of his behaviour are often women (even his mother). Besides, I was making the broader point that the Hollywood establishment is often very forgiving...of men.
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Oh I'm not disagreeing with you just that I'm not sure why anyone is surprised.
 
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kps88 said:
It's like you keep making points that are in no way related to the post I was responding to. Please explain what sleeping your way to the top has to do with assault/harassment and false allegations.
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If you cannot find the connection that I am referring to, it's no use me going on with you.
 
SteveJ said:
Not directly related to these cases, certainly, but troubling - and typical of Hollywood - nonetheless:

Is all forgiven? The strange, troubling resurgence of Mel Gibson

https://www.theguardian.com/film/2017/nov/23/mel-gibson-hollywood-road-rehabilitation
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He's been a massive cnut, no doubt about that, but he's also one of my favorite actors/directors. It's a tough one. I'm a firm believer in a justice system that seeks to rehabilitate rather than exact revenge (though when it comes to certain crimes, I'm liable to stray. Like paedos. Wouldn't mind if they were sentenced to 50 years of being kicked in the bollocks every five minutes), and by all accounts, he's been working on improving himself and atone for his sins. I guess time will tell whether it was sincere, or simply done to get back into Hollywood's good graces. Until then, I see no reason to continue shunning him, or to see his reemergence as troubling. As @Sweet Square points out, people have done equally bad and worse stuff than him and still been allowed to have a career and go about their lives.
 
Tbf to Mel Gibson there are also a lot of stories of him helping out his fellow celebs when they were going through rough times, supporting the likes of Robert Downey Jr and Courtney Love with their addiction issues for example. He even paid Downey Jr's insurance bond for his comeback film which really led to him getting his career back on track.

Not that it excuses his bad behaviour but I guess it makes it easier for people to forgive him if he's known to have a generous, supportive and good side to his character too. They probably also see him as a victim of his own struggles with alcohol addiction rather than an out and out scumbag.

That sort of support and (sort of) forgiveness is quite difference to people turning a blind eye to Weinstein's behaviour which seemed to be largely down to his powerful position.
 
Gibson should be able to have a resurgence. He has paid a massive price over the past decade by having been more or less blackballed from most Hollywood productions. Hope he comes back strong.
 
Nah, I've no time for those who refer to Jewish people as 'oven dodgers'.
 
SteveJ said:
Nah, I've no time for those who refer to Jewish people as 'oven dodgers'.
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Human psychology is not so simple. A person can have impeccably correct views, never come within a hundred miles of saying anything ugly or controversial, and still be a totally self-centered prick who wouldn't raise a finger to help another person in trouble.
 
Will Absolute said:
Human psychology is not so simple. A person can have impeccably correct views, never come within a hundred miles of saying anything ugly or controversial, and still be a totally self-centered prick who wouldn't raise a finger to help another person in trouble.
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Not sure what on earth your point is here, or how it relates to Steve's. That you can be an antisemite with a heart of gold?
 
Ubik said:
Not sure what on earth your point is here, or how it relates to Steve's. That you can be an antisemite with a heart of gold?
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Perhaps that someone can emit a foul-mouthed, antisemitic rant while drunk, but still behave with decency on other occasions. Human nature doesn't divide neatly along the politically correct fault lines.

Edit: I wasn't really criticising Steve's post. He's entitled to his view that Gibson's behaviour puts him beyond the pale. Just saying that in my experience such things can be complicated.
 
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Will Absolute said:
Perhaps that someone can emit a foul-mouthed, antisemitic rant while drunk, but still behave with decency on other occasions. Human nature doesn't divide neatly along the politically correct fault lines.

Edit: I wasn't really criticising Steve's post. He's entitled to his view that Gibson's behaviour puts him beyond the pale. Just saying that in my experience such things can be complicated.
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Well he also beat his girlfriend, and told her

"You look like a fecking pig in heat, and if you get raped by a pack of niggers, it will be your fault"
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So on this occasion, I think we can be sure the rot is pretty widespread within him.
 
Ubik said:
Well he also beat his girlfriend, and told her



So on this occasion, I think we can be sure the rot is pretty widespread within him.
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Hard to make excuses for that. Either alcohol unleashes a dark side of his personality which he normally keeps strictly repressed, or he's not a nice man!
 
SteveJ said:
Granted, but the victims of his behaviour are often women (even his mother). Besides, I was making the broader point that the Hollywood establishment is often very forgiving...of men.
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If you're very good you're forgiven. Kevin Spacey is so good that he makes me forget he's a creep.
 
How to Stop the Predators Who Aren’t Famous

The service industry, where more than half of workers are women, is especially plagued by sexual harassment. Tipped work is notorious: If you have to please the customer to get paid, you are constantly having to decidebetween defending yourself and paying rent. The Restaurant Opportunities Center, an advocacy group seeking fair wages and better treatment for workers, reports that a majority of restaurant employees are sexually harassed weekly.

Domestic workers are another especially vulnerable group. They are often immigrant women of color, sometimes without legal immigration status, sometimes living in their employers’ homes. This combination makes them uniquely subject to intimate harassment and intimidation. A majority of female farmworkers, who often toil in isolation in the field, have experienced sexual harassment or assault.
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The Coalition of Immokalee Workers, a worker-run human rights organization based in Florida, for example, has incorporated sexual harassment rules and penalties into its Fair Food Program, the labor agreement reached after an enormous struggle with fast food companies. It has worked. The coalition says it has gotten 23 supervisors disciplined for harassment and nine fired. “The bosses and even the growers in the agricultural industry are not public figures, and so public shaming does nothing to change their behavior,” Julia Perkins, a spokeswoman for the Immokalee Workers, told me.

The Restaurant Opportunities Center is, for its part, running a campaign to eliminate tipping and replace it with a fair minimum wage. The idea is to use collective power to restructure power dynamics in whole industries.

These organizers stand in a grand tradition. The first female-led American labor struggle was started by teenage girls working in mills in Lowell, Mass., in the 1830s. One of their central complaints was sexual harassment and assault by supervisors, which left them humiliated, enraged and often pregnant.
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Man of Leisure said:
Matt Lauer?! Curious to hear the details on the complaint.
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Think it's been handled in house, from the article:

On Monday night, we received a detailed complaint from a colleague about inappropriate sexual behavior in the workplace by Matt Lauer. It represented, after serious review, a clear violation of our company's standards. As a result, we've decided to terminate his employment," Lack said in the memo.

Though it is the first complaint about his behavior in the twenty plus years he's been at NBC News, the statement continues, there is reason to believe it may not be an isolated incident.

I'm heartbroken for Matt. He is my dear, dear friend and my partner, and he is beloved by many, many people here," Guthrie said. "And, I'm heartbroken for the brave colleague who came forward to tell her story and any other women who have their own stories to tell.
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Looks like the victim isn't looking to come forward in public, so it's unlikely we'll hear more details.
Must be pretty bad if they chose to terminate his contract after review, and said it was a 'clear violation'.
 
vi1lain said:
Looks like the victim isn't looking to come forward in public, so it's unlikely we'll hear more details.
Must be pretty bad if they chose to terminate his contract after review, and said it was a 'clear violation'.
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Agree that it must be pretty bad as you say. But in something as high-profile as this, I suspect there will be more details/leaks in the coming days. At least would like to hear his side of the story.
 
Man of Leisure said:
Agree that it must be pretty bad as you say. But in something as high-profile as this, I suspect there will be more details/leaks in the coming days. At least would like to hear his side of the story.
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What do you expect him to do?
If the decision is wrong then i'm sure he's lawyering up as we speak to seek damages, so it's unlikely we'll hear anything at all.
If the decision is correct, then at most we'll get an PR apology, and how he has lessons to learn about his conduct - but I suspect he'll lay low for a while.
 
re Mel Gibson -
He said he was having a nervous breakdown at the time -
I wouldn't necessarily believe all of his statements at the time were genuine beliefs so much as him being fecked up.
Its a tough one ... can't help but feel a bit of sympathy for him tbh.
He's obviously capable of being a total cnut but he seems to be pretty embarrassed and regretful about the whole thing.
 
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