Or just that some of these situations are not falling within the scope of people's concept of justice, and seemingly unjust trials by public opinion are generally called 'witch hunts' by those who feel as such.
Celebrity Allegations, #MeToo etc
- Thread starter Buchan
- Start date
Or just that some of these situations are not falling within the scope of people's concept of justice, and seemingly unjust trials by public opinion are generally called 'witch hunts' by those who feel as such.
Fair enough.
Totally agree. Have seen a lot of ambitious people who are willing to sleep their way to the top.
This is tiresome. It simply amounts to you saying the woman is lying, despite all your feminist humbug which enjoins automatic support for female victims of assault in cases other than the perpetrator being a favoured Democratic senator. Even photographic evidence is denied. Anyone who remembers the liberal reaction to Clinton's accusers in the 90s will recognize the syndrome.
Arianna Huffington's reaction is predictable. She's a powerful woman who doesn't want to be cast in the role of victim or the embarrassing distraction of a public controversy which could do her no good. People who were present at the shoot with no fish to fry might be better reporters.
I didn't say anything about a third accuser. When I first posted there were only two. It was you who said Franken had only been accused by one woman.
Ah, so you're accusing me of victim blaming, yet when Arianna herself says you're full of shit about that picture you call her a liar.
Seriously, stop getting your news from shitty right wing smear mags, and do even the basic research unless you want to keep looking fundamentally dishonest.
I'm accusing you of having double standards. And of being a hypocrite, which you certainly are.
I don't read right wing magazines. All my information is taken from the mainstream (liberal) media.
Arianna has many good reasons not to wish to become embroiled in such a mess. What could she say? "We were doing a photo shoot and he was grabbing my ass and breasts pretending that it was all in fun." How could that undignified story getting widespread publicity possibly benefit her? Not to mention the resultant hostility of people like you.
These would apply if most of these accusations were deemed false, but they haven’t been.
The NYT article posted earlier I think had around 37 people and about 8/9 of them had denied the accusations to varying degrees (ie not outwardly said they were completely false) and also the article didn’t include everybody who has been included so far either - so on that basis you can say that this witch hunt has a very good success rate, and given the severity of what the accusers are claiming to be true, it’s kmportant to highlight these issues.
Unless of course you’d prefer the victims stay silent forever?
Also, the majority of the accused don’t have any political influence, so I’m not sure how you’ve managed to lump in trump and Clinton into your reasoning. Especially since both have been put under intense investigation - the results of which will benefit everybody.
Anyone who doesn’t see the victims as victims now, most likely would’ve never seen the victims as victims ever.
This isn’t the first time people have come forward with claims of sexual abuse against a number of celebrities - the difference is in the past they weren’t believed.
We will travel down a scary road if we don’t allow victims the platform to come forward.
And how the feck do you know this? feck me no wonder even your fellow liberals can't stand your posts when it gets to stuff like this
Franken has received 2 letters of support, from former female employees of his and former female SNL cast and crew, saying he never did anything inappropriate, always treated them with the utmost respect and always championed and supported women’s rights.
Not convinced there’s anything there yet.
Not convinced there’s anything there yet.
Its being claimed that the Franken "grope" photo was uploaded onto Photoshop.
Here's where it gets interesting, the photo was "last modified" on July 1st, 2009 which is the date Franken's opponent conceded the senate election and Franken was confirmed to be the next senator of Minnesota.
Here's where it gets interesting, the photo was "last modified" on July 1st, 2009 which is the date Franken's opponent conceded the senate election and Franken was confirmed to be the next senator of Minnesota.
My only knowledge of Charlie Rose is from the segments of his shown John Oliver has frequently shown on Last Week Tonight, all of which seemed to include cringy as feck flirting between him and the female hosts.
*sigh*
Sleeping your way to the top implies sex. In order to have sex you need at least two consenting adults.
Being sexually assaulted is not the same as having sex, or using sexual favours in return for a promotion/job/money/power etc.
Being coerced into a situation where you need to perform a sexual act or face losing your career and being blacklisted is not the same as having sex.
Why is this so difficult to understand?
And even then why is sleeping to the top seen so negatively, when things like Boys Clubs exclusively help their network and fellow peers into get into favourable positions of power all the time - yet nobody seems to care?
Ah, so you read about things like the Arianna thing being debunked from liberal sites, and then just choose to believe the opposite. Ok then..
If Arianna Huffington had said Franken molested her, then to my mind that would have confirmed the allegations against him, and I sure as feck wouldn't be defending him and neither would most other liberals. Thats the difference between liberals and your tribe of smear mongering right wingers, we don't put politics before basic decency.
We also however don't sit and watch GOP dark artists like Roger Stone (who posted an advance message about the allegations before Tweeden had even made them) ratfeck one of the most promising senators out of office without being damn sure he's actually guilty.
I googled 'Franken' and there was a link to the story. No big mystery.
Well, you can spell 'decency' but, having read your posts over the years, I think that's as close as you'll ever get to the concept.
No one is suggesting that Franken should be run out of office. What is being suggested is that the same standards should be applied to consideration of accusations against him as against other individuals who don't happen to be liberal darlings.
Franken's non-denial of accusations against him is telling. 'I don't remember' or 'I recollect the incident differently' is as far as he's gone. If he knows he's done nothing wrong why doesn't he say so? It's the natural impulse of any innocent person.
Instead he's gone to ground. The reason isn't hard to understand. He knows there are lots of women out there who could potentially accuse him of groping and molestation; and an outright denial would leave him even more exposed if these women came forward. So lie low, make no loud protestations of innocence which might provoke other women to denounce him as a liar, and hope that when the smoke clears he'll be left with only a handful of accusers whom his friends- people like yourself - will be happy to disbelieve.
I am very well aware what sexual abuse or rape means. I also know how easy it can be to accuse someone of sexual assault years later when you have made your way to the top by sleeping around. I have seen it happen, and I have also seen people refuse to budge on their morals in order to get ahead.
I posted that because a friend had told me the day before that she had been sexually assaulted. She was traumatised by it. and then to see the hypocrisy of Takei and his posts on FB and Twitter. It deeply angered me. I have no time or respect for men who commit such acts and crimes.
Of course, us nasty liberals are the enemies of all things good and proper. What with our despicable insistence on standing up for poor people, minorities, gays etc.
What a crock of shit. He apologized for the stupid and inappropriate photo, but dealt with the rest by saying he didn't remember it that way and requesting an ethics inquiry. Now why do you think someone who would be worried about other people coming forward would request that he be investigated? You know who didn't want an inquiry? That would be his accuser. Strange no?
The fact not one but two groups of his current and former female collegues have come out in support of him should tell you something too, but I'm sure in your little head its all an evil liberal conspiracy.
Ok I'm sorry about your friend. Didn't answer my question though and your homophobia is still inexcusable particularly as you just assumed Takei was guilty.
I work in the industry and spend a lot of time with actors, sometimes helping with line readings and rehearsals. There are also a lot of online resources you can look up surrounding this scenario. But please, continue with your profanity laden horseshit, maybe if your throw in a couple more fecks you'll convince someone.
Because he's clever, knew that such an inquiry was inevitable, and that it looks good on his part to call for one. The same cleverness which prompted two responses to the initial accusation within the space of a few hours: one of them saying that he remembered the assault differently, and the follow-up, leaving that semi-denial on the record, appeasing his constituency with an unqualified apology.
What magical power does a Senate inquiry have to uncover truth? What great threat does it pose to him anyway? - His friends in the Senate mostly predisposed to believe him.
The support of female colleagues doesn't mean much, merely that as an ambitious politician he's smart enough not to shit in his own backyard. Charlie Rose's female colleagues at CBS were shocked at his downfall as well. A calculating man won't be indiscriminate.
No I'm totally in the camp that the victims should come forward whenever they can but my reply was highlighting the general feelings of the populace and why that might make us as a society think of it as a witch hunt and stop the victims from calling out about what's happened to them.
The fact that the majority of this new wave haven't been deemed false doesn't alter the current perception that most accusers are making claims up and those that are accused can use their power and influence to continue that perception. Hopefully with so many of these accusations being proven true then that'll change.
As you said in the past they weren't believed but that stigma still applies today and stops people coming out with allegations for fear of it going nowhere and ruining their own lives (perhaps even more so after the abuse they've suffered).
I mentioned the political influence partly because some of the accused are politicians like Moore and partly because you can play politics without being a politician. Hollywood/media politics means producers and directors get away with things because they hold all the power when it comes to casting talent and hiring everyone. Again, hopefully when this wave is done with and the paradigm has shifted, they won't have such power to prey on people unanswered.
Enjoy Infowars.
I understand by that you mean retroactive false accusations, not just the 'sleeping to the top' part. Not a rethorical question, but are you positively sure no assault has happened in these instances? Someone can cross the line to violence/rape even during what has started out as consensual sex, after all.
And concerning Hollywood, do you believe this makes up a considerably high percentage of the cases discussed here? I can imagine potential personal motives, but it would be a high-risk move in any case. The accusers would face a shameful end to their careers, high reparations and possibly jail time if it goes wrong. They would also deliberately put the public spotlight on something that tarnishes their own careers, and I imagine most people owing their success (at least in part) to something like this would rather be glad if it never comes under investigation.
All in all, I consider women (and children) actually being molested by exploitative assholes a much more plausible reason for the current outpouring of allegations than a sudden mass phenomenon of false testimony - carefully spoken. Especially after what has already come out about Hollywood culture in this regard.
Look, even if it turns out to be substantially true, I don't necessarily think the guy should resign based on what he's been accused of so far. It's clearly in a different Universe to Weinstein, and much less serious than the charges levelled against Spacey and that guy from One Tree Hill.
But it does represent misconduct, and he doesn't get a pass because he's a 'good liberal' who supports the 'right' causes.
Not sure (again) how much I agree with Corey Robin but I thought this was worth posting:
https://www.facebook.com/corey.robin1/posts/1563871540345228?pnref=story
https://www.facebook.com/corey.robin1/posts/1563871540345228?pnref=story
Why would someone make an accusation once they got to the top? What do they have to gain? And just because you've slept your way to the top, it doesn't mean you have never been a victim of abuse.
One of the founders at pixar is now having to take a leave of absence due to the accusations (which hes pretty much admitted) against him.
Accusations are supposedly unwanted hugs.
How far away are we from "he/she looked at me funny" being seen as genuine harassment?
Not trying to undermine those who felt victimized in this situation, but the fact that hes had to take leave due to hugs is a strange one for me.
Accusations are supposedly unwanted hugs.
How far away are we from "he/she looked at me funny" being seen as genuine harassment?
Not trying to undermine those who felt victimized in this situation, but the fact that hes had to take leave due to hugs is a strange one for me.
It’s reassuring that your anecdotal experiences account for a global problem that has existed for decades.
The only people who generally think this is a witch hunt are the ones who don’t believe the accusers are telling the truth. Also probably includes a large amount of people who weren’t aware of just how common sexual violence is, therefore this is difficult to comprehend.
That doesn’t make the claims of a witch hunt legitimate.
As I’ve said many times in this thread, we can’t talk about the volume of claims being made now without discussing the fact that rape culture made it almost impossible for victims to get justice in court previously.
You can’t talk about one without the other.
It's clearly over the top, but if there was some guy at your office who was known for giving out unwarranted hugs, you'd think he was a bit of a creep tbh.
FFS please read the article before making such statements.Have you even read the fecking article before making such an ill informed post? It's the person who's been accused of this has said that he's taking a leave due to unwanted hugs, the accusations against him are much more serious
http://www.rollingstone.com/movies/...-absence-after-harassment-allegations-w512411
I really don't want to take a moral highground but some of the posts have been pathetic in the last pages or so. From talking about "McCarthyism" to this.
TYT Panic, Clickbait Defeats Journalism, and Back to What Matters
I was informed the evening of Friday, November 17, 2017 — only hours after false accusations were published about me in HuffPost — that The Young Turks would be terminating my employment effective immediately.
The accusations are baseless. Within 24-hours of publication, HuffPost removed both articles because they contained false, defamatory information. HuffPost went on to make a statement to the author of those pieces that they refuse to stand by them, saying specifically, “we don’t have the ability to fact-check and stand behind that sort of original reporting in a contributor post.” Furthermore, there exists substantial evidence establishing that these claims were fabricated.
https://medium.com/@jordanchariton/...anic-back-to-what-really-matters-3f4de682afd8
Mmm the Disney allegations around Lassiter...beginning to re-evaluate Toy Story 3 and "lots of huggin Bear"...is it just me or does it look a bit like him?
Great article.
Will be interesting to see how things stand in the next few months once the dust settles.
I don't disagree with any of that. My only issue was that you seemed to be building a narrative where any actions he has made, such as asking for an inquiry, somehow prove his evil intentions. This case appears to be one where evidence and eye witness testimonies could actually provide at least some corroboration or otherwise of the accusations (something that sadly isnt true in most cases). So they should have the inquiry, and if it shows he acted improperly then I'll line up alongside you to criticize him.
My issue here isnt that a liberal did something sleazy. Hell, Anthony Weiner and Bill Clinton are proof enough that sleaze is a bipartisan pastime. The thing is though we live in an age where lies and political smears have become the norm rather than the exception. The grope photo was last modified (and I'm not suggesting it changed the photo in any substantive way) on the exact day when Franken's opponent in the senate race conceded back in 2009. That photo has been sitting waiting for the most effective time to be used. Combine that with the accuser being a far right wing radio host, the complete lack (so far at least) of corroborating evidence from people around at the time, and the fact that some very manipulative and dishonest right wing hacks like Roger Stone appeared to have known this story was about to drop, and it's hard not to suspect a political attack job.
Days after victim blaming Aly Raisman, Gabby has now come forward and confirmed that she too was a victim of the team doctor, more than 125 women have filed lawsuits against him.
A lot of victims are conditioned to blame themselves, stay silent and feel guilt for what has happened to them - in turn usually turn to victim blaming because they believe that their actions are what caused this abuse to happen to them.
Damn. She didn't want it that way.
Porn Legend Ron Jeremy Accused of Sexual-Assault by Two Women: ‘I Was Scared’
https://www.thedailybeast.com/porn-...d-of-sexual-assault-by-two-women-i-was-scared
I would imagine that he would be charged with assault with a deadly weapon rather than groping.
https://www.thedailybeast.com/porn-...d-of-sexual-assault-by-two-women-i-was-scared
I would imagine that he would be charged with assault with a deadly weapon rather than groping.
feck sake pal the woman just came out and said she was not bothered and has been friends with Franken and his wife for decades so who the feck are you to tell her otherwise. She is not a victim yet you are saying she is based on your crazy assumptions.