Young attractive people relying on older ones with power to make or break careers on a whim. Megan's fox's example with Bay is a good one. I think she had little to none acting talent to warrant starring any kind of movie but Bay was able to make her a global star and did so when as long as she danced to his tune.
Celebrity Allegations, #MeToo etc
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Young attractive people relying on older ones with power to make or break careers on a whim. Megan's fox's example with Bay is a good one. I think she had little to none acting talent to warrant starring any kind of movie but Bay was able to make her a global star and did so when as long as she danced to his tune.
From what I've understood about the Michael Bay situation though, is that while his behaviour was sexist, misogynistic, tyrannical and abhorrent... he didn't make any sexual advances on Fox the way Weinstein did with his victims. Or at least that's what I understood from what I've read.
So, I'm not sure exactly what he got by helping build the career of Fox, who let's be honest is not the most talented to have worked in the industry. In the casting couch mentality of "promotion in return for sexual favours", I'm not sure where Bay fits in. That's not in defence of his inexcusable behaviour, but more of trying to understand his motives. Was his power over Fox what he was getting off to, rather than Fox herself?
Bay always comes across as quite a repellent character. All his movies have this leering, pornographic sensibility about them. The women are merely objects.
Where did I politicise this scandal? I only mentioned the liberal/Clinton/Obama angle in response to somebody else who brought it up. Look at my OP again: my ire is directed firmly at Hollywood and the repugnant industry it seems to be.
Bizarrely, the only people complaining here about the scandal being 'politicised' are the ones bringing politics into it.
P.S. I've been at work all day and won't get a chance to read until later, but it appears this thread grew quite a bit today. I can imagine more women came forward, no?
Which is obviously unacceptable to the male half of the population. Let's not get too prissy about things. Michael Bay didn't get where he is today by misjudging public taste.
In such it's similar to the corporate world (though much more protection these days) and the church system.
It's reminiscent of the stories that came out in England about the abuse of young footballers by one of their coaches. Again a case where other people must have known or suspected wrongdoing. That story broke when one ex-player who'd came forward but rapidly grew into thousands of reports, with dozens of suspects being investigated.
Of course in Weinstein's case, the story revolves round older victims, but with the same kind of power differential and the same ability to make or break someone's dreams as well as their career.
It's comments like that that make me despair of you, Will!
Because I think you're entirely right and it's an important point that others wouldn't make but not many people are going to want to listen when it's proceeded by your previous comments in the thread.
Similaly Rihanna and others make up for a lack of talent by appealing sexually to young'ens. It's the music industry and sex sells. For a modern society we aren't half archaic... (Ahhh but it's their choice...)
First off i'm not being "prissy"
Im certainly far from a prude. I'm merely calling out some of the more morally bankrupt and repugnant ways in which he treats and portrays women, in what are essentially movies about kids' toys.
Regarding your last statement, just because his movies are financially successful that makes it ok? Or somehow he's beyond criticism?
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I think a lot of people are making assumptions about what the actual dynamics of power are here.
*anecdotal story alert*
I'm not saying this guy was as bad as Weinstein but he was definitely acting like a total creep and I would be surprised if this wasn't incredibly common amongst producers, directors and actors alike. The scandal could go on and on.
My ex boss has two daughters, they were out shopping one day when a middle aged American man struck up conversation with the younger girl,
"Are you an actress?"
"no"
"Well i'm _______ and i'm a producer in Hollywood, I can make you an actress if you want, here's my card, call me"
She told her parents about this and the father called the number and the producer invited them out for dinner to discuss her new career. They went out for the meal, it cost about something like £2k, they then went back to his suite where he offered to get the girl into a Hollywood acting college and pay all her tuition fees, accommodation etc.
The father was completely bowled over by this guys flashing the cash but after thinking about it decided he didn't want his daughter indebted to this guy and so agreed to let her go as long as he was paying for her and not the producer.
When she turned 18, oh yeah she was 17 when all this was going on, she moved over to the States and began at this school, the first day the producer rolled up to the campus in his Ferrari and took her out for dinner.
It wasn't until a few weeks later that he tried anything and her Dad understandably never gave me the full details but all contact was broken off with him.
"Are you an actress?"
"no"
"Well i'm _______ and i'm a producer in Hollywood, I can make you an actress if you want, here's my card, call me"
She told her parents about this and the father called the number and the producer invited them out for dinner to discuss her new career. They went out for the meal, it cost about something like £2k, they then went back to his suite where he offered to get the girl into a Hollywood acting college and pay all her tuition fees, accommodation etc.
The father was completely bowled over by this guys flashing the cash but after thinking about it decided he didn't want his daughter indebted to this guy and so agreed to let her go as long as he was paying for her and not the producer.
When she turned 18, oh yeah she was 17 when all this was going on, she moved over to the States and began at this school, the first day the producer rolled up to the campus in his Ferrari and took her out for dinner.
It wasn't until a few weeks later that he tried anything and her Dad understandably never gave me the full details but all contact was broken off with him.
I'm not saying this guy was as bad as Weinstein but he was definitely acting like a total creep and I would be surprised if this wasn't incredibly common amongst producers, directors and actors alike. The scandal could go on and on.
An interesting subject would be, is on-screen objectification different to a behind the scenes ones and how does one influence the other? Like, if Bay was the consummate professional towards Fox, but he explained to her before hiring her: "Listen, sex sells and I need screen candy for this movie to make money. You're basically here just to show cleavage and arse cheeks". Is that wrong or not? And if Bay saw Fox as just a pair of tits that'd make him money, does that not lead to him treating her as such off screen as well?
Not to the level of sexual harassment. I think.
Sure, but he never made sexual advances towards Fox, did he? He never touched her inappropriately nor did he try to sleep with her based on what we know so far. Fox's grievances were that he sexualised her from a young age (15) and he treated her like a worthless object. And I'm with her to an extent. He got her to come to his house and wash his Ferrari while filming her, which I'd argue is grossly inappropriate, as part of her "audition". But then on the opening scene of Transformers, there's Fox washing a car and getting wet and flashing bits. Which she must have done in front of the entire film crew, including Bay. That was even in the Trailer.
If that's not a role you want to do, you walk away. If you take it, you know what type of role it is. You're the eye candy, the object of desire. From Bay's perspective he could have picked any eager young stunning woman from the thousands that are yearning for a break in the movie industry. She was perhaps to him nothing special and like I said, if you start to see people as objects it's not a giant leap to start treating them as such.
Undoubtedly Bay's a twat, but has he done anything more than to follow the money and do what would get him rich? Which is to sexualise and objectify women in an action movie aimed at young male adults?
I agree with you. The sales numbers of the Transformers franchise speaks volumes.
I think in the aftermath of this scandal, most incidents will be re-examined. Some will be inflated beyond reason.
Sorry man, if you're still going on about income streams then you just don't get it.
You don't get it how hard it is to come out and how victims always feel like they were the ones who did something wrong. Victims of abuse spends years in therapy and still never truly get over it; the slightest thing can be a trigger to reliving the traumatic experience. The natural instinct is to suppress it and act like it never happened. All this gets multiplied by a 100 when the abuser is a king in your world with vast media and legal resources.
They have nothing to gain by coming out.
Why is the assumption that everyone he came across (phrasing) fits into this category? If some actresses got to this point then fair enough, but applying this blanket-wide is a cop-out.
Which of the women don't fit into this category?
An interesting topic, actually. Obviously sex sells, hence why a lot of Hollywood stars are either incredibly attractive or are made-up to be incredibly attractive...especially when movies are essentially a huge money-making machine. While it's deplorable for actors and actresses to be objectified on-screen it's obviously something that does happen, and I'd imagine it even factors into plenty of genuinely good films wherein an actor or actress may be very, very good at the part, but still gets some level of preference due to their physical appearance.
And as to say, it's an interesting ethical question when the person in question knows what's happening. Obviously the relationship between Bay and Fox was incredibly one-sided with Bay generally controlling/manipulating Fox, but what would the general perception be of someone who's more willing to embrace their so-called 'eye candy' status? Not completely related to the topic at-hand but interesting nevertheless.
Instagram is filled with such women and I don't judge them for it. It is what it is, their body makes them money.
Is it really totally one sided? How much did she get paid and how much was her profile boosted by association with Bay? I presume its her dream/ambition to be in shitty blockbuster films.
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Twitter has gone into overdrive, digging up jokes from over 5 years ago.
This is when I remind myself that twitter is the amplified voice of the 1%.
This is when I remind myself that twitter is the amplified voice of the 1%.
Agreed. That doesn't mean it's ok for Bay to treat her like shit. But that's what a lot of people put up with to get roles like that so it gives these directors an excuse to behave like shits.
I guess the reason I personally don't feel extreme sympathy (I definitely feel some) towards Fox, is because I've seen many people treated like shit on entry level jobs of many different professions, for not 100th of the reward that Fox got. I mean general lackeys in the TV industry, trainee lawyers or brokers you name it. A lot of humans are arseholes who abuse their power to make other peoples lives miserable. Bullies or sadistic cnuts. Hollywood has feck all exclusivity on that.
Links?
Search "Jason Momoa" (I'm on my phone)
Cheers.
This tweet?
How did we go from a sexual predator who abused women to digging up (completely tasteless) jokes that somebody made about a scene with a co-star in one breath? And if that was not enough, finishing it off with "men are trash". yeah cause that's really helping the cause right now.
On a completely unrelated topic: the modern trend of tweeting with zero consideration for grammatically-correct English bugs me no end. When did this 'Let's forget capital letters exist' fad start anyway and who decided it was 'cute'?
I need to do this more often.
Love the way “cis men” are a specific target of wrath. Because trans men are presumably all totally cool. But wait. Isn’t that transphobic? Gender is a social construct. Surely all men should be considered equal? This is all so confusing...
This tweet?
How did we go from a sexual predator who abused women to digging up (completely tasteless) jokes that somebody made about a scene with a co-star in one breath? And if that was not enough, finishing it off with "men are trash". yeah cause that's really helping the cause right now.
She's the kind of person I'd meet and want to stick a pistol in my mouth within 30 seconds. She's the kind to tar ALL men for the action of few.
Go ahead and live your miserable life trying to cause trouble everywhere you go. I bet she's shaved 'feck you' into her pubes as one last hurrah to the extinction of men.
She's the exact individual I was referring to last week in the 'Politically-Incorrect Opinions' thread (which I took a lot of flak for, incidentally) when I said these type of SJWs are scum of the earth. Labelling and bashing everything in their paths yet claim to be oh-so-tolerant and progressive. They will be, if not already are, the ruination of the left.
If people like her are “the ruination of the left” how come the vile shite spewed on twitter by people from the other end of the political spectrum aren’t “ruination of the right”?
I’m increasingly coming to the conclusion (as per @adexkola ’s comment above) that spending too much time on twitter gives you a VERY distorted opinion on what most people are actually like, at both ends of the political spectrum. It’s the extreme, absurd opinions that get the most traction because they create the most fuss. But they’re all just fringe idiots and should really be ignored.
Not really, considering they're a small fringe element of an incredibly large group of people, spanning numerous countries/political parties/political movements.
It's hard to believe there's people like that isn't it? You almost wish it was parody.
Hm, very level-headed post when calling out someone's hyperbole.
Yeah, I'll also have to pull you up on that. If the racist, nazi sympathising cnuts on the extreme end of the right spectrum are not ruining the right, then I don't see how these idiots would ruin the left.