Casemiro (Out)

[Plant0x84]

We'll sell him and replace him with the weghorst equivalent in midfield

Sabitzer Redux

 

[Juice Juiced]

Does having more CL automatically improve performance?

Him and Varane are professionals.
Its more on Ten Hag.
He doesn't know to use him. Modric and Kroos are workhorses. Modric played in Bosnia for Zrinjski, thats butcher league where you play on potato fields ( i am born there). He is skinny but he is tough MF just like Kroos.
ETH always let Case to be isolated.

 

[AFC NimbleThumb]

Really hope he stays through to the end of the season otherwise it’s a big loss to us. I’m not absolving Casemiro of any blame, but sometimes, tactically, he’s completely hung out to dry and is asked to do too much, too often.

Use him sparingly and pair him with Amrabat/McTominay and he will be of value.

Could say this about so many post-Fergie signings.

We buy a player then subsequent signings/tactics do nothing to help that player thrive. Casemiro is just one in a long line of players this club has failed.

I personally hope he goes as we may as well get the money when/if we can but signings Mason fecking Mount as his midfield partner is a malpractice, there was absolutely no plan after we signed him.

 

[Superunknown]

Annoyed with how this has turned out, this season. Really loved the guy last year and he was one of my favourite players. Can't bear to watch him this year. It doesn't feel like his season has started yet.

The whole team needs a revamp and we need another rebuild. Again. My attachment to the players within our squad is waning and I really couldn't care who goes right now.

 

[ayushreddevil9]

Him and Varane are professionals.
Its more on Ten Hag.
He doesn't know to use him. Modric and Kroos are workhorses. Modric played in Bosnia for Zrinjski, thats butcher league where you play on potato fields ( i am born there). He is skinny but he is tough MF just like Kroos.
ETH always let Case to be isolated.

But then why were his performances so good last season then?

 

[RoyH1]

But then why were his performances so good last season then?

He was still running on Ancelotti fumes

 

[Offsideagain]

I believe his legs have gone. Amrabat is much quicker and stronger, he arrives at tackles on time and not a little late and then fouling the player. That has happened far too often with Casemiro. He'll play weel in some games but against the likes of the Bitters and Scousers, he'll be found wanting. We paid way too much for him in the first place, same with Varane.

 

[Andycoleno9]

So fans think that our only two world class players Varane (30y old) and Casemiro (31y old) are finished after short bad spell?
Absolutely ridiculous. Many clubs, big clubs, have even older players who are key for them but we want to get rid these two?

Whole team is playing badly this year. It is not about decline, ffs.

 

[Lash]

So fans think that our only two world class players Varane (30y old) and Casemiro (31y old) are finished after short bad spell?
Absolutely ridiculous. Many clubs, big clubs, have even older players who are key for them but we want to get rid these two?

Whole team is playing badly this year. It is not about decline, ffs.

I actually think it's more the amount of money they're on and our FFP issues, it would give us a much better scope for investment if we could shift the big wages off the books. We always have these threads of "what we need" and it usually entails a list of 5-6 players. That won't happen if they stay.

 

[fergieisold]

So fans think that our only two world class players Varane (30y old) and Casemiro (31y old) are finished after short bad spell?
Absolutely ridiculous. Many clubs, big clubs, have even older players who are key for them but we want to get rid these two?

Whole team is playing badly this year. It is not about decline, ffs.

It's insane, particularly regarding Casemiro who has essentially been one of the best players under Ten Hag.

If Casemiro can get fit and through his usual rusty couple of games he'll be back to first name on the team sheet.

 

[mikeyt]

I actually think it's more the amount of money they're on and our FFP issues, it would give us a much better scope for investment if we could shift the big wages off the books. We always have these threads of "what we need" and it usually entails a list of 5-6 players. That won't happen if they stay.

The thing is, while this may be true, all we'll do is spend another insane amount of money on players not as good but pay them the same silly money. Until we get our wage structure in a decent place and start bringing in players that can actually develop, it's Groundhog Day!

 

[VP89]

So fans think that our only two world class players Varane (30y old) and Casemiro (31y old) are finished after short bad spell?
Absolutely ridiculous. Many clubs, big clubs, have even older players who are key for them but we want to get rid these two?

Whole team is playing badly this year. It is not about decline, ffs.

Wel Varane can't really be depended on for fitness either and Casemiro has had two injuries which have kept him out for multiple weeks, which doesn't look ideal for the way we want to play and how quickly our games came.

 

[The Mitcher]

So fans think that our only two world class players Varane (30y old) and Casemiro (31y old) are finished after short bad spell?
Absolutely ridiculous. Many clubs, big clubs, have even older players who are key for them but we want to get rid these two?

Whole team is playing badly this year. It is not about decline, ffs.

Varane has not been world class since he signed here. Casemiro was last season, but definitely not this season.

 

[Lash]

The thing is, while this may be true, all we'll do is spend another insane amount of money on players not as good but pay them the same silly money. Until we get our wage structure in a decent place and start bringing in players that can actually develop, it's Groundhog Day!

I agree, but you would hope that this is the strategic plan from Ratcliffe and co. It does seem like it from the outside, but that could be projecting.

 

[GMoore23]

So fans think that our only two world class players Varane (30y old) and Casemiro (31y old) are finished after short bad spell?
Absolutely ridiculous. Many clubs, big clubs, have even older players who are key for them but we want to get rid these two?

Whole team is playing badly this year. It is not about decline, ffs.

I agree. Especially regards Casemiro.
Varane is made of glass and really frustrating. He's still quality when available though.

Casemiro was our best player last season and a world class CM. He's only looked bad this season due to the managers clueless tactics. Literally every player in the squad is underperforming this season.
Every CM on the planet would struggle with ten Hags silly 1 man midfield formation.

 

[Oranges038]

So fans think that our only two world class players Varane (30y old) and Casemiro (31y old) are finished after short bad spell?
Absolutely ridiculous. Many clubs, big clubs, have even older players who are key for them but we want to get rid these two?

Whole team is playing badly this year. It is not about decline, ffs.

They were world class. But right now they aren't and cost about 500k a week in wages. Moving them both on and freeing up that money to bring in younger players with better potential makes sense.

 

[ROFLUTION]

It's a tough one whether Casemiro should stay or be sold for me. He's not worth it when injured, but when in shape he really makes a difference in an area where we currently bleed. Possibly our worst area really.

And the younger players like Mainoo can learn from him. 50/50 for me, but I like him. If Modric can play to an old age, so can he. Don't think his legs are gone. They weren't last year. He's just a player who in general is a bit in and out of form.

 

[Gordon Godot]

They were world class. But right now they aren't and cost about 500k a week in wages. Moving them both on and freeing up that money to bring in younger players with better potential makes sense.

Exactly, both poor signings and classic short term mentality from the club. RM don't let these players leave for no reason. If signed on a free or £20m worth it, but we pay top dollar and huge salaries for players on way out. Sounness called it right, we still need to sign a top DM so it ends up costing us twice as much

 

[DWelbz19]

In a vacuum Varane and Casemiro are two of our better players, no doubt. But there is some logic in letting them go:

1. From a sheer value perspective - for a side who are abysmal at selling, these two represent 'easier wins' so to speak, to let go. Big drop off on the wages too (though we'd probably just waste that salary elsewhere, tbf).

2. Fitness: Varane, especially. We can't rely on a top class CB who cannot play more than 1 game a week, or who we know will invariably be out for at least a few weeks after a consistent run of busy fixtures. The drop off is significant.

Casemiro's injury has currently seen him miss 13 games. That's closing on in being the longest time he's ever been out injured (currently 63 days - his longest is 67 back in 2016).

3. Desire: how much of the dawg is left in them to keep trucking along for a club who are clearly some way from being close to immediate success again. They're both in the final act of their career, it can be extremely easy to become dismayed with the current "project" and want to dip out.

 

[Roboc7]

So fans think that our only two world class players Varane (30y old) and Casemiro (31y old) are finished after short bad spell?
Absolutely ridiculous. Many clubs, big clubs, have even older players who are key for them but we want to get rid these two?

Whole team is playing badly this year. It is not about decline, ffs.

They were world class at Madrid but have not been world class for us. If they aren’t already in decline they soon will be.

When you sign these type of players it’s for the short term, not even for the full duration of their contracts. You are hoping to get 2-3 really good seasons our them. That hasn’t and isn’t going to happen so take the chance to sell them to Saudi Arabia and at least get some financial benefit from it.

 

[El Zoido]

I’d keep Casemiro if he’s up for the fight. I think ETH has done him dirty this season, giving him little support in the middle. He can definitely be an important player for us for a couple more years yet. He’s only 31 ffs, people talk like he’s about to draw his pension. He just needs managing better.

But Varane can go. Is apparently on huge wages, is rarely fit. We need a CB pairing that plays week in, week out. Sell him and buy someone to play alongside Martinez, cause Maguire isn’t the one long term.

 

[sullydnl]

You'd have to judge based on what you see from them day to day rather than the glimpses we've had in matches this season.

 

[astracrazy]

I’d keep Casemiro if he’s up for the fight. I think ETH has done him dirty this season, giving him little support in the middle. He can definitely be an important player for us for a couple more years yet. He’s only 31 ffs, people talk like he’s about to draw his pension. He just needs managing better.

But Varane can go. Is apparently on huge wages, is rarely fit. We need a CB pairing that plays week in, week out. Sell him and buy someone to play alongside Martinez, cause Maguire isn’t the one long term.

He hasn't look good in one match this season, not even pre-season. Thats not completely down to tactics, in fact, early season we weren't playing this wide open.

 

[Buster15]

So fans think that our only two world class players Varane (30y old) and Casemiro (31y old) are finished after short bad spell?
Absolutely ridiculous. Many clubs, big clubs, have even older players who are key for them but we want to get rid these two?

Whole team is playing badly this year. It is not about decline, ffs.

Spot on.
This daft saying that once a player is over 30 his legs have gone is so silly.
Most top sprinters reach their peak at that age. And distance runners even later.

The problem I saw with Casemiro this season was that he was lunging into tackles in an uncontrolled manner. And getting booked. That has nothing to do with his legs. It has everything to do with his thought process.

 

[Buster15]

I’d keep Casemiro if he’s up for the fight. I think ETH has done him dirty this season, giving him little support in the middle. He can definitely be an important player for us for a couple more years yet. He’s only 31 ffs, people talk like he’s about to draw his pension. He just needs managing better.

But Varane can go. Is apparently on huge wages, is rarely fit. We need a CB pairing that plays week in, week out. Sell him and buy someone to play alongside Martinez, cause Maguire isn’t the one long term.

Yes indeed. Agree with you.

 

[acnumber9]

He hasn't look good in one match this season, not even pre-season. Thats not completely down to tactics, in fact, early season we weren't playing this wide open.

Maybe we weren’t so wide open because Casemiro was playing.

 

[Marwood]

Spot on.
This daft saying that once a player is over 30 his legs have gone is so silly.
Most top sprinters reach their peak at that age. And distance runners even later.

The problem I saw with Casemiro this season was that he was lunging into tackles in an uncontrolled manner. And getting booked. That has nothing to do with his legs. It has everything to do with his thought process.

Sprinters and long distance runners move in straight lines. Nor do they have to stop and start over and over. A different type of physicality.

 

[massiveissue]

I actually think it's more the amount of money they're on and our FFP issues, it would give us a much better scope for investment if we could shift the big wages off the books. We always have these threads of "what we need" and it usually entails a list of 5-6 players. That won't happen if they stay.

The only big wages needing off the books are Rashford and Martial, to be honest.

 

[Juice Juiced]

Case and Rashford carried Mr Clueless last season. And no DM would good look in his system. Kroos and Modric are workhorses and excellent at passing and keeping the ball, over here he plays mostly with Bruno and McTominay. Both are turnover machines and bad at holding the ball.

Keep him one more season, Mainoo is not ready.

 

[Harry190]

If Pascal Gross can do it twice per week, there's no reason a world class played like Casemiro can't.

 

[astracrazy]

Maybe we weren’t so wide open because Casemiro was playing.

For example?

 

[acnumber9]

For example?

You said we weren’t playing that open early in the season. The tactics have been the same in every game we’ve played so if we were less open maybe Casemiro was part of that reason.

 

[NZT-One]

He hasn't look good in one match this season, not even pre-season. Thats not completely down to tactics, in fact, early season we weren't playing this wide open.

We were playing mostly the same thing the whole season. Two higher 8'ish players in front of one more defense orientated player. I think, it looks worse than before because the two player we have now higher up are McTom and Bruno. Bruno tends to roam forward but at least can be restricted by instructions (even if I'd argue that isn't a good idea) and McTominay isn't adding anything really when not scoring. Eriksen is immobile, thats why his action radius is smaller. Mount has moved a lot which makes it more difficult to distinguish his starting positions.

But in principle, it is the same thing all season (plus pre-season).

 

[Buster15]

Sprinters and long distance runners move in straight lines. Nor do they have to stop and start over and over. A different type of physicality.

Yes I am well aware of that. But that movement, in whatever direction requires a high level of cardio vascular fitness and strong muscles to provide the force to move.
And in point of fact, elite athletes are significantly fitter than professional footballers.
How far do they run during a 90+ minute match. Typically 10km. And that with a 15 minutes rest half way.
Even a very average 50 year old runner can do that in half the time.
And by the way on an undulating surface. Not a nice smooth flat football pitch.

Way back when I was at school, playing a game of football was really easy compared to a cross country run.

 

[sebsheep]

I actually think it's more the amount of money they're on and our FFP issues, it would give us a much better scope for investment if we could shift the big wages off the books. We always have these threads of "what we need" and it usually entails a list of 5-6 players. That won't happen if they stay.

We'd have to sell Casemiro for quite a bit more than we bought him to help out with ffp surely?
He's only been here around 18 months.

 

[Lash]

We'd have to sell Casemiro for quite a bit more than we bought him to help out with ffp surely?
He's only been here around 18 months.

His transfer value would be amortized over the length of the contract on the books. 4 year contract (5 year if you include the option), would mean we'd only need to get back about 45m to be safe from an FFP perspective. Add to the wage bill being reduced massively helps the operating profit.

 

[led_scholes]

I d like to see him with Mainoo for a while.

 

[Phil Osophy]

I’d keep Casemiro if he’s up for the fight. I think ETH has done him dirty this season, giving him little support in the middle. He can definitely be an important player for us for a couple more years yet. He’s only 31 ffs, people talk like he’s about to draw his pension. He just needs managing better.

But Varane can go. Is apparently on huge wages, is rarely fit. We need a CB pairing that plays week in, week out. Sell him and buy someone to play alongside Martinez, cause Maguire isn’t the one long term.

100 % agreed.

 

[Iker Quesadillas]

Wel Varane can't really be depended on for fitness either and Casemiro has had two injuries which have kept him out for multiple weeks, which doesn't look ideal for the way we want to play and how quickly our games came.

Martinez will probably have spent longer in the sidelines than these two by the end of the season.

 

[VP89]

Martinez will probably have spent longer in the sidelines than these two by the end of the season.

Because of one injury that required surgery. These guys have reoccurring problems.