Interestingly Casemeiro has only played in 1 pl defeat out of 4 as a starter. Wasn’t in the line up for the first two matches, on the bench vs City. Played against Villa. I wonder if we’d have looked better against City had he being playing and if we didn’t have nearly a month off before the game. Let’s hope he stays fit all season.
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It's borderline stupid to compare Carrick to Casemiro. Both have completely different skill sets. Carrick was much better as a playmaker and could control the tempo of the game. Casemiro is best at what he does although he's a very good passer too but he's not a deep-lying playmaker.
On a side note, I have yet to see someone as good at passing between the lines as Carrick. Those drilled passes were so underrated.
On a side note, I have yet to see someone as good at passing between the lines as Carrick. Those drilled passes were so underrated.
It's such a shame one poster has completely taken this thread off topic. And it's not the 1st time he's done it either.
Surely it would be better to compare Casemiro to Keane, someone who breaks up play, tackles and lays the ball on to others to do the damage up front. Don’t get me wrong Keane could score a good few goals but he was deffo our box to box more defensive mid, I don’t think we’ve had one since. Carrick was great at passing and calming things down.
I can’t remember a single time when Carrick stepped up the tempo of a game. If by controlling the tempo you mean slowing the game down, perhaps but that was his game, he was generally safe and risk averse. Keane was in a league of his own for setting the tempo, it was almost as if he was the only person determining the tempo. If he wanted the game slowed down, he did it. When we needed the game speeding up he did it. He was unique.
Another thing with Carrick and controlling the tempo is that once a team got on top of us we really struggled with Carrick to wrestle control back. Carrick would retreat and cede ground to ‘block passing lanes’ meaning that when we played good teams we’d get forced back and find the ball coming back more and more.
As for passing between the lines, exaggeration I think but perhaps you only started watching football in 06. Keane specialised in it. Scholes could do it with his eyes closed. Beckham could pass through lines with laser like precision. Carrick wasn’t as good as any of those and that’s just united players from recent times.
My MoM against Forest, he needs to play with two proper supporting 8's to limit the amount of ground he covers, else we'll run him into the ground soon.
Agreed and further to the above I’d also add that the type of football played during Carrick’s time is different (albeit subtly) to how it is played now at even crazier breakneck speeds with relentless pressing. Casemiro’s attributes are also well suited to United’s current style of premier league football - focused on quick counter-pressing to set up counter attacks.
Well, I can’t argue with the facts but I don’t think you can really draw the conclusion that Carrick was nowhere close to Case.
They’re different types of player for one thing. Carrick’s control, vision and passing range is a little better, Case is better defensively and has the better consistency. On balance Case is better but there isn’t a gulf between them.
I know Case has 5 CLs but that’s really not a reliable indicator when comparing one player to another. Robson was as good as (if not better than) Case but never won any CLs.
We’ve scored several goals already from Casemiro breaking up play and starting a counter. It’s essential in the modern game.
Great player, elite mentality and he seems to be thriving in leadership role where he is not just the muscle to Modric and Kroos but a midfield general, at the center of all the good things we do.
Having him, Varane, Rashford, Bruno and yes Shawn playing at this level it will be criminal if we don't add the Striker and CM to complete this squad and go on to challenge and win the PL in the next two years. We simply have to and I pray the sale process is done by May so that we can really add to this team and be in a position to challenge. We have to, cause we are that close in my view.
Having him, Varane, Rashford, Bruno and yes Shawn playing at this level it will be criminal if we don't add the Striker and CM to complete this squad and go on to challenge and win the PL in the next two years. We simply have to and I pray the sale process is done by May so that we can really add to this team and be in a position to challenge. We have to, cause we are that close in my view.
It took me quite some time to figure out you meant Shaw here. Spent a while racking my brain about whether we had a player whose first name was Shawn.
You...were talking about Shaw...right?
So there isn’t a gulf between Robson and Carrick ?
I saw him on Amazon the other night, first thought was you look as stupid as you sound.
Ignorance is not an excuse. Moron.
Fair enough if that's what you really believe, there's no point in talking about it but this is an opinion that you'd only see among some United fans, and in general there is a large gap between them. Let's not forget that Carrick had PTSD for years after getting torn a new one by Barca in the 09 CL final, and only became a top player again in 12/13. So he didn't have a whole lot of excellent seasons. In fact Sir Alex tried replacing him more than a few times. In general world football views, it is pretty laughable to compare them. But anyway.
I can't say that I watched Robson given I was born in 94. But again... There's always going to be an element of overrating your own guys, especially guys who give you nostalgia, to elevate them to the best in the world and underrating others. Fans do it all the time with their players. Important to always have some context. Casemiro was the key DM to the most successful CL side of all time. He's literally up there with some of the best DMs in all time football and has the success and big performances to back that up. We can compare Keane to him from modern football and they are similar players, but also... Keane will in most cases, fall short, if compared to Casemiro over his career.
Woah woah. You were born in 1994 so let's just put this statement down to ignorance and leave it at that.
He played in that great Real Madrid team because he's a great player, it's not fecking rocket science. TalkSport really are bottom of the barrel for opinions.
Now you mention it, the gap between Carrick and Robson is probably bigger than the gap between Carrick and Case. I just mentioned Robson in passing to rebut the “look what he’s won” argument.
I don’t think many are saying Casemiro isn’t great. He looked good to me even when he was rusty. Carrick was good, as well, and was a bit better at passing and creating than Case is.
I would generally choose Case over Carrick, but that’s not the argument. They play a similar position but in a different style. Both do / did a good job.
It also depends who else you’re going to put in there. A pair of Case plus Eriksen is nicely balanced but if I have to pick either Case or Carrick to play in a midfield two with McT or Fred then it’s not such an easy choice - Carrick would provide better balance in that case.
Carrick probably is more appreciated by Utd fans than by anyone else but his ability is not normally denied. In the last 50 years he is one of the best we’ve had in that deep midfield position. He probably would have been more appreciated on the continent.
Damn predictive text..., yeah I meant Shaw.It took me quite some time to figure out you meant Shaw here. Spent a while racking my brain about whether we had a player whose first name was Shawn.
You...were talking about Shaw...right?
And Rodri's playing for a team of farmers, eh?
It's not... I love Keane, and he is a world class player without a doubt and a United legend. I'm saying in general, global football view and comparisons of players over time - not just United fan POV. Casemiro has achieved more than Keane did (without question), while as players I would say they are very similar in the level they produced at their very best.
It's like how United fans will Scholes into the Xavi/Pirlo/Scholes argument, when most global football fans don't look at Scholes as part of it. And Scholes is arguably my favourite ever player. But the general view across most football fans, is they wouldn't mention Scholes in those discussions (I personally wouldn't include Pirlo on the same tier as Xavi but on a similar to Scholes, but again, most non United supporters wouldn't).
Not to mention, does Rodri just play with a bunch of plumbers? How is city not a great team? (And arguably easier to play in given how structured they are compared to Madrid)
Gaby is as bitter an ABU as one can get. Has nothing good to say about United or any of the players.
Casemiro and Varane might be the best business we've done in recent times - getting experienced players who know what it takes to win at the highest level will be massive for the rest of the team
NBC Sports don't do this often as far as I can tell, just posted a Casemiro all touches vs Forest
Keane was magnificent and so was robbson , they belong to the very top echelon of defensive minded midfielders and I'd say casemiro belongs there too.
Carrick is in the next tier not to mention that his best years came after we had stopped winning.
Carrick is in the next tier not to mention that his best years came after we had stopped winning.
Yeah. I think Robson is the top of that list as he had all the best qualities of all the other three you mentioned. Keane probably a smidge above Casemiro.
Carrick is fourth on this little list. But it says something that out of all the deep midfielders we’ve had in the last 50 years Carrick is probably 4th in that list too.
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Same with Varane. And now both are core players and still world class
Thats the point he does not get. To get into a winning, world class team, you have to be world class. Be it RM or Brazil
Robson a defensive minded midfield player??
Where have you got that from?
Yeah Robson was mainly box-to-box. But he could (and did) do it all. He played in the back four quite a bit in his West Brom days and he generally played deeper for us as he got older.
He had great positional sense and had defensive acumen, was one of the best tacklers we’ve ever had, great engine and fighting spirit. “Defensive minded” isn’t quite right but defensively able would be true.
How did Casemiro achieve more than Keane?
I could care less about the ignorant views of global football fans.
For over 15 years, people have been saying we need a new Roy Keane (even when winning trophies by the bucketload) and I think we found him in Casemiro
The complete midfielder.
I reckon the term 'box to box' was created after people watched him in his prime.
For Manchester United or in football in general? Because that's a pretty outrageous statement if its the latter. Great player though.
Agree with the previous paragraph.
Yeah. He got injured quite a bit and might have been even better if he’d had more luck with that. Hungover half the time as well if the stories are true.
What a player he was.
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