I already said I think they are similar, but that Casemiro has achieved more. Which is what he was arguing.
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His team maybe achieved more. He didn't wim those trohpies on his own.
It's a team sport. You're comparing the two as of they're individual sportsmen.
If Madrid had won less(let's say they didn't have prime Ronadlo) would you rank Casemiro as a lesser player?
Yeah but... I'm not ranking him as a greater player? Their peaks are similar and they are similar players. I think general football (non home bias) consensus would tend to put Casemiro above Keane, and if you have 2 similar players where 1 achieved more (yes, with his team, because the only way to do so), then I'd say that's also pretty fair? I mean it's a stick we constantly use at United comparing our guys to any other PL player. You can't then turn around and say it's not fair to use when someone else has just been more successful.
I personally can because I'd never use a teams achievement to put one individual player over another. It makes no sense.
I think it makes complete sense! We aren't comparing squad players to starters - it's a key player to a key player, players who played mostly the same role (Casemiro is the modern version of Keane essentially), and both played for great teams under great managers. A player being able to achieve more with his team, helping his team reach points which another couldn't, of course has an impact.
So using that logic if Casemiro had lesser players around him and therefore won less that would lower his ranking in your eyes?
Stop beating around the bush! The question is what has a player achieved. Nothing else. Winning 5 CL's, 4 where you were a key player, is him achieving more than Roy Keane. And if you like me consider their peaks to be very similar (Casemiro is modern day Keane for me), then the only way to separate them is based on what they've achieved?
You won't answer the question but I'm beating around the bush?
This guy! fecking midfield monster! Love him!
Probably his worst game. He was still decent though.
Unreal again, with him in the side I fancy us against anyone, just looks phenomenal
In the last 10 mins, by cleverly using his body, he won us many FKs
Probably wasn't his best game today, but still out best midfielder
I see why Madrid won many trophies with him.
I'm not sure what your point generally is, but yeah if Casemiro didn't play in a top team and didn't win big trophies, then by definition he wouldn't have achieved as much and therefore would be ranked lower. Naturally? It's not even a question.
Weird how he was viewed as the clogger of the three, yet I think he covered for Kroos shortcomings tbh
He was excellent today. Won so many balls in our half and used his endless experience to get us out of Wolves' press as well. Absolutely priceless player.
He’s just consistently good.
So basically if Madrids scouting team wasn't all that good, if they hadn't signed Kroos, Modric, Ronaldo etc you'd rank Casemiro lower.
It's just nonsense. His ability is what it is.
You shouldn't be altering your opinion of a player based on what his club/manager/scouting department does.
What's really weird is that Madrids clogger is our best player. Shows how far off we've been.
Superb again today. One of the few who looked awake.
He's never been a clogger but we just see him as a DMC and suddenly don't realise how good he is.
It is all good, there’s no way he was better than Ince though. Ince was the best player week in week out in a team that contained Keane, Hughes, Giggs, Kanchelskis, Schmeichel, Cantona etc. Carrick averaged 24 league starts a season and found himself on the bench for periods of every season other than 2013 for players of the calibre of Cleverly and Anderson. You’ve also got others like Crerand and Moses.
Sly fox, this one.
He's a class above. Him and Varane just inspire so much confidence.
I don't know what they do in Madrid, but surely they produce/develop great players.
I don't know what they do in Madrid, but surely they produce/develop great players.
It's great that Murtough and Arnold forced him onto ETH. Wonder where he'd be without him
Imagine having the capability of splitting seas but not passes
We've finally got a Brazilian DM that knows how to escape yellows 
Absolutely love him. He reads the game so well and is always there ready to back up the initial tackler to nick it away if they manage to get passed.
Top player.
Absolutely love him. He reads the game so well and is always there ready to back up the initial tackler to nick it away if they manage to get passed.
Top player.
There is a way he was better than Ince - in my opinion he was better. He was much more controlled, better passer, more intelligent in his positioning. Carrick didn’t dive about and kick people but he didn’t need to, he just got himself into the right position by reading the game. Ince wasn’t the best player - in fact you’ve just listed several players who were better. I liked Ince but he was not as good as Carrick; SAF cut Ince loose the first chance he got. I’d actually rate Butt slightly above Ince.
As I say, Carrick was better than all the players I listed. In my opinion.
I haven’t listed several players who were better than Ince. Anyone who watched United back in 93/94 will know how pivotal Ince was to the team, Keane didn’t even become a better player until Ince left. Ince’s actual performances, not perceived performances based on team results or things the ‘untrained eye’ didn’t see were phenomenal and consistently so. Safe to say the fans weren’t asking for him to be dropped or disappointed in his performances and SAF wouldn’t have benched him for players of the calibre of Anderson or Cleverly. He was a proper player. A player you could count on week in week out not a wet lettuce who’s performances improved after retirement. Actually Ince has become the opposite as he went to Liverpool. Saying SAF got rid at the first chance is like saying the same about Beckham, Stam or Ruud. Absolute nonsense. I think if you think Butt was better than Ince, Carrick as good as Casimero and by definition almost as good as Robson then I’m not sure I value your opinion very highly.
I don’t value yours at all, based on that drivel.
PS It’s not drivel. Sorry. I just ran out of patience.
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Out of interest, take Alan Shearer - no CLs, only one Prem title and compare him to our own Andrew Cole. Would you really use the “look what he’s won” argument there?
I dare you to say that in the Ronaldo vs Messi thread
Get this man a song, and a decent one at that. Same applies for Varane.
It's Casemiro you know, it's hard to believe it's not Scholes.....
Really intelligent footballer and tackleing skills to go with it, lacks pace but one of those players who always seems to be in the right place at the right time, reads a game so well.
Rafael Varane to the tune of Macho Macho man.
Never been a Clogger
He is a proper underrated midfielder
I can really not understand how a Man United fan would go out of his way to undervalue a United great.
Roy Keane was the best player in England from 1993-2003. Undoubted. Ten years of being the best player and captain of one of the greatest teams in English football.
Please stop
Yeah I agree bit just in the context of Madrids team. He was the ball winner, the least talented of the midfield players. The muscle.
He's comes here and he's our best player.
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