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2022-23 Performances

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6.4 Season Average Rating
Appearances
51
Goals
7
Assists
6
Yellow cards
13
Red cards
2
Status
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Strelok said:
His feet was in the middle of the ball and you still insist he tackled too high?

And the bold part even worse. He's a DM he had to tackle it, it's his job to protect the back four. And it's football not some car factory with robots mate. Shit happens that's all.
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Amazing how many people can't see this. His foot rolled over the ball. It's never a red card for me and when you compare it to some of the challenges we've seen other players get away with this season, it's a fecking joke.

And I never thought the one against Palace was a red either. The camera angle they used for the VAR review made that look much worse than it was. But even if you think that was a red, the exact same thing happened the week after in the Merseyside derby and there was no cards or review. No consistency. He's been hard done by. The lad had never been sent off in his career until he came to the PL. Bizarre.
 
Olecurls99 said:
What about the fact that the referee had already seen it and made his decision and the decision wasn't clearly wrong?

I think we challenge it on that point
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I don't think that's going to fly because they'll say they have the right to look at decisions and draw the refs attention to them if they think it's merited. Then the ref made his own choice.

We can retort "it wasn't clear and obvious" but then you get back into the exact same thing, because we ain't appealing the mechanics of VAR we're appealing the red card so what is clear and obvious depends on the action and the interpretation not the VAR rulebook.

Is it forceful, high, endangering an opponent? As refs and panelists they say yes (and the footage certainly won't dissuade the view) and therefore it's clear and obvious we say no because we want to get the ban overturned. But again there isn't any substantive argument against the red card action so no prospect of success.

Look, I dunno what the regs are, if we can launch an appeal with no downside we should knock ourselves out. But if we risk a lengthier ban, it would be a folly.
 
Dominos said:
Can you answer, why has the rolled over the top of the ball?

Do you think it was possible for him to make this tackle without rolling over the top of the ball? Do you think it was possible for him to make this tackle without planting his studs in the middle of the oppositions shin? If yes, then what are you even arguing about?

If you accept that it's possible to make this tackle without rolling over the top of the ball and planting his studs in the middle of the oppositions shin, then you accept he's made some error in the way he's made this tackle.

I never suggested that he shouldn't make the tackle, I can only assume you're deliberately misreading by post at this point.
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Can you see his feet was in the fecking middle of the ball?

And again, it's football here not some car factory where things work exactly like it should with robots. Shit happens, randomly and that's football. I really want to stay polite but possible possible my arse. We should agree to disagree here this would go nowhere.
 
The rule says its serious foul play to endanger the safety of players on the pitch.

In a vacuum you can argue that any tackle could endanger the safety of another player. You could argue that every time Martinez gets battered his safety was endangered. Many tackles today where a foul wasn't even given could be considered that. One left our player on crutches.

Rules as they are written are just that, words on a piece of paper. What is, or at least what should be, important is how that applied practically on the pitch and in the VAR room.

We can clearly see that the standard this year has been that hard tackles that accidently create some risk of injury are a yellow card, you can't then take all those precedents and point at the rule and say 'look its a red because we say so now, oops about all the other occasions, and the ones to come that we'll apply the current standard to, go feck yourself'
 
Never a red card tackle and no one will convince me otherwise.
 
Strelok said:
Can you see his feet was in the fecking middle of the ball?

And again, it's football here not some car factory where things work exactly like it should with robots. Shit happens, randomly and that's football. I really want to stay polite but possible possible my arse. We should agree to disagree here this would go nowhere.
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So you accept it's possible to not roll over the top of the ball and plant your studs in the middle of the oppositions shin, but won't accept he's made an error in rolling over the top of the ball.

Well that's settled then.
 
Red in STL said:
Not a chance that it will be overturned, VAR didn't tell the ref to overturn it, they told him to take a look, the ref is the one who overturned it
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But they're only supposed to intervene when it's clear and obvious. He saw it and dealt with it.
 
Abraxas said:
I don't think that's going to fly because they'll say they have the right to look at decisions and draw the refs attention to them if they think it's merited. Then the ref made his own choice.

We can retort "it wasn't clear and obvious" but then you get back into the exact same thing, because we ain't appealing the mechanics of VAR we're appealing the red card so what is clear and obvious depends on the action and the interpretation not the VAR rulebook.

Is it forceful, high, endangering an opponent? As refs and panelists they say yes (and the footage certainly won't dissuade the view) and therefore it's clear and obvious we say no because we want to get the ban overturned. But again there isn't any substantive argument against the red card action so no prospect of success.

Look, I dunno what the regs are, if we can launch an appeal with no downside we should knock ourselves out. But if we risk a lengthier ban, it would be a folly.
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Yeah you're probably right it just leaves a bitter taste.

I hear we've won 1 of the last 9 that Taylor has reffed.

He averages double the bookings for us than our opponents over 38 games. It's so obviously going on.
 
Dominos said:
So you accept it's possible to not roll over the top of the ball and plant your studs in the middle of the oppositions shin, but won't accept he's made an error in rolling over the top of the ball.

Well that's settled then.
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Why do you keep saying plant? It was a flick on the shin. If he planted the other guy wouldn't have played on.
 
He took the ball studs first. I think it was likely to be interpreted by some refs as a Red and by some as a Yellow. If the guy takes a glance on the shin and shrugs it off my money would be on Yellow, if the guy takes the same glance on the shin but rolls around in agony, my money would go on Red.

At this point, the most relevant question is “what will the ref give for a challenge like that?”. The phrases “Never a Red” and “Clear Red” get pumped out but refs give Yellows and Reds for tackles like that. Having been shown a Yellow, I think Case was unlucky to get VAR twisting the ref’s arm - the ref already saw it and made a decision.

I don’t particularly like players going into tackles like that and playing the ball studs first and such tackles should be discouraged by Yellows or Reds. I’d go with Yellow today but although it’s very annoying I do accept the Red.

All that said, the officials were poor today.
 
Olecurls99 said:
Why do you keep saying plant? It was a flick on the shin. If he planted the other guy wouldn't have played on.
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Ok. He rolled over the top of the ball and his studs have made contact with the shin.

Has no one wondered why he's rolled over the top of the ball and made contact between his studs and the middle of the oppositions shin? Has no one thought, maybe he didn't need to do that? Even if the outcome was a free kick in JWP territory and a yellow, I'd be sat wondering why on earth he's gone over the top of the ball, picked up a needless early booking and given them a free kick in a dangerous area.

What annoys me is this was all completely avoidable if he just tackled responsibly.
 
Unlucky. Today you could accept it being a red if every other tackle like that in every other game wasn't being given as a yellow. The one before that was a joke, nothing else to say.

He's never had a straight red in his entire career, the idiots who run this league have given him 2 in 6 months.
 
In my broadcast there was a world cup referee and he said it was very exagerated for VAR to intervene. And this is a guy who is made fun of for always siding with the ref in broadcasts, tells you all really..
 
Point is, in the age of VAR, fast game and safety-first refereeing, a bonafide / mistimed tackle with studs above ground level becomes liable of a red. The automatic 3 games ban is the bit one can find debatable, at least in principle and on reputation.
 
Bepi said:
Point is, in the age of VAR, fast game and safety-first refereeing, a bonafide / mistimed tackle with studs above ground level becomes liable of a red. The automatic 3 games ban is the bit one can find debatable, at least in principle and on reputation.
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We already lost him and basically forfeited the game when he was sent off. As if that wasn’t enough he’s now out for 4 games on top of that, and for me the punishment doesn’t fit the crime. It’s not like he two footed someone or stamped on their head. He made an honest attempt to win the ball, and was successful in doing so. He’s just unfortunate that his leg bounced off the ball and into the player. How is that a challenge worthy of a 4.5 game ban? It’s just not, especially when racial abuse on the pitch gets you 8 games or whatever Suarez got.
 
Compton22 said:
Just wanted to see if anyone would try, strong as some people's convictions appear to be on this being a definite red card.
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I think some people can see why it's been given as a red card.

The issue no one wants to address is why our player has put himself in a position where the world is now debating whether he should get a yellow or red card. If you don't go over the top of the ball and put your studs half way up the oppositions shin, you won't even get any card, nevermind a red. Even a pair of twats like Taylor and Marriner can't give a red card unless you gift wrap them a reason to give you one, which is what we've done here.
 
If you are going to slide tackle straight through a person you have to make sure that you are leading with bent knee and laces first. Not a straight leg and studs first. It was a red card. The problem is the refs are way too inconsistent with these types of tackles. Either give them all a red or none. Seems like it's one rule for us, and another rule for other teams...
 
As a few have mentioned, the length of the ban is totally disproportionate. Looking at his two Red Card offences, there is just no way that’s worth 7 games banned. That’s the rules for you - total bullshit.
 
Similar tackles haven't been punished, and that's the most annoying thing but it is still a red card in this day and age.

It''s easier said than done but he needs to be more careful, because that's another four games where it's going to be a struggle in midfield.
 
Utd heap said:
I thought it was soft but probably a red.Certainly not outraged.
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I don’t think anyone’s actually outraged with the red card per se. What I mean is that had the red card been shown right away people would’ve probably gone “ah feck that was clumsy ref’s seen studs up and sent him off” and not demanded a VAR intervention. But given the bar they’ve adopted (and doubled down on in recent weeks), once the yellow card is shown then upgrading it is an outrageous decision and that’s what’s the most infuriating, because they only seem to be stepping in against us and the bar seems to get lowered when we’re on the receiving end of it.
 
He was out of control which in turn endangers the opposition.
Honestly i think he's not settled in his personal life and it is showing on the pitch.
 
BluesJr said:
How many points did we get in the league games that he missed?
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7 but they were easy games and it wasn't pleasant viewing. We're not going to have him for Fulham and Newcastle, those games will be a nightmare.
 
SadlerMUFC said:
If you are going to slide tackle straight through a person you have to make sure that you are leading with bent knee and laces first. Not a straight leg and studs first. It was a red card. The problem is the refs are way too inconsistent with these types of tackles. Either give them all a red or none. Seems like it's one rule for us, and another rule for other teams...
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Yeah, totally agree.

It’s the inconsistency that ETH has been complaining about (here and there) after some of the decisions we got recently. It’s not so much whether they were right - more the failure to apply the same judgment fairly all the time.

It’s probably really hard for all the refs to meet that standard but it’s a valid reason to feel aggrieved.
 
Blood Mage said:
7 but they were easy games and it wasn't pleasant viewing. We're not going to have him for Fulham and Newcastle, those games will be a nightmare.
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Back to back games against Leeds and a decent Leicester at that time were certainly not described as easy games at the time. The Fulham game is FA Cup, not a disaster if we lose but obviously be disappointing. League is priority.
 
The Corinthian said:
I love him but that’s going to be 8 games he’s missed because he’s giving the ref a choice to make.
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Yeah his hands should have never been anywhere near anyones neck, don't give the fools a chance to feck you. He is an experienced campaigner and knows to be in better control of his tackles. AWB slides around all day long and you never worry about a straight red because of control.
 
b20times said:
He was out of control which in turn endangers the opposition.
Honestly i think he's not settled in his personal life and it is showing on the pitch.
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If this season is him playing unsettled, then he’s the greatest midfielder ever to play the game.
 
Probably a Red Card. Wouldn't have been surprised with it not being awarded, but can't really overly complain that it was.
 
thegregster said:
Gives the ball away a lot and the red card was terrible.
He has been giving the ball away too much all season and we are overhyping his performances. Im worried he is decline and we are all afraid to say it.
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It’s similar to the Schweinsteiger situation. At first, you couldn’t criticise him with the whole “BFS” stuff, but it was obvious he was bad.

It’s obvious Casemiro is bad but he still has that reputation that prevents any criticism.
 
Yagami said:
It’s similar to the Schweinsteiger situation. At first, you couldn’t criticise him with the whole “BFS” stuff, but it was obvious he was bad.

It’s obvious Casemiro is bad but he still has that reputation that prevents any criticism.
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So how come you had nothing to say about him from November to February?
 
Yagami said:
It’s similar to the Schweinsteiger situation. At first, you couldn’t criticise him with the whole “BFS” stuff, but it was obvious he was bad.

It’s obvious Casemiro is bad but he still has that reputation that prevents any criticism.
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Casemiro‘a worst game for us is probably better than Schweinsteiger’s best. He’s been clear man of the match several times and his lesser performances have come with disruption of knocks and suspension. This is not similar to Schweinsteiger at all.

There was plenty of criticism of Case in his first few games when his reputation didn’t count for much. Following that he’s generally been brilliant so I’ve no idea what the feck you’re talking about.
 
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