So we can't win the ball by connecting with the upper half of it now?
18
Season Average Rating
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So we can't win the ball by connecting with the upper half of it now?
There are loads within the fanbase who defend any poor decision.
There's some deep psychological issue that drives them to want to appear cool by being 'neutral' or whatever.
fecking disgusting some of United fans can't even support our players .
he had two red cards in his whole carrier and all by EPL VAR in just 2 months
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he had two red cards in his whole carrier and all by EPL VAR in just 2 months
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There's a text bit that's easily missed since it's not in the table.
"Players who are dismissed for a second time in a season will receive an additional match suspension to those listed below. Players who are dismissed for a third time will receive two additional matches and so forth."
Source: https://www.thefa.com/-/media/files...-information-for-players-2022-23-english.ashx (it's a PDF)
It’s nothing to do with appearing neutral, and it’s everything to be able to look at something rationally and objectively. Something a lot of fans are incapable of. The refereeing in this league is a joke because it’s so inconsistent and worse challenges haven’t been punished in the same way BUT that is still a red card.
Can this be appealed then?
It can, but it won't be overturned
Well, if it means you roll over the top of the ball and plant your studs in the middle of the oppositions shin, then no, that's probably a bad idea isn't it?
Unless you don't think it's a foul at all?
fecking disgusting some of United fans can't even support our players .
he had two red cards in his whole carrier and all by EPL VAR in just 2 months
I support him. Think he's a tremendous player and great signing. Still think he deserved a red today.
Some very bias and bitter reds on here tonight. Sad to see.
We’d be fecking mad to appeal. It’s annoying that it went to VAR when similar challenges by other players didn’t but he went in with his studs showing, went over the top of the ball and caught the other player high up his shin with the sole of his boot. There’s no way any panel of refs would agree it was the wrong decision to send him off.
There is no unfortunate bounce of the ball. The reason he's rolled over the top of the ball is because he's tackled too high. And when you roll over the top of the ball, you end up planting your studs in the middle of the opposition's shin. So now he's given a completely needless free kick away in a dangerous area with JWP licking his lips, and he's either going to get a yellow or a red card. All because he couldn't tackle responsibly. The ball was there to be won cleanly but he failed to do so.
You cannot tell me anyone truly believes he can't win that ball without planting his studs in the middle of the oppositions shin, as if it was completely unavoidable.
Any rule can only be valid if the subjective parameters are being applied consistently. So your idea of 'objectivity' is shallow, kind of like a knock off Neville.
We were told by the Premier League referees that they would allow more physicality into the game, and have been allowing tough challenges in every game, including this one, which cause potential harm to the players, but because one still frame makes it look like a potential legbreaker (if more force was applied) when the context surrounding it shows it was a challenge made with only the force necessary to reach the ball, and it was an unfortunate deflection that cause his studs to 'flick' up. Taken in full context its a yellow.
Add onto that the VAR issues of it not being a clear and obvious error its just a joke.
I thought he was poor today and then topped it with a red card. If someone had asked me a week ago, I’d say he was our best player this season, but then came Liverpool and a second red card and I’m not so sure anymore. Have been crucial in many games but today he probably cost us two points against the weakest team in the league.
Respect for not complaining at all when the red card came.
Respect for not complaining at all when the red card came.
Yeah its a foul.
But it doesn't always mean you roll over the ball and land on a shin though. Casemiro could make that tackle another ten times and it conceivably not happen like that again. He's coming down on the ball not up on it.
But now you want tackles to only connect with the mid point of the ball and below.
It's becoming almost impossible to tackle at this rate.
Same here. He is my number one favourite United player, but I still think he deserved a red. I can agree that there is inconsistency in VAR decisions but doesn’t change my opinion in this case.
So why doesn't the VERY SAME FECKING GUY give a red to the Leicester player yesterday.
When it isn't a red yesterday why is it one today?
We are being fecked by that cnut repeatedly and it's about time we stop taking it. I am happy Ten Hag spoke out.
Yeah, it was a definite red card. Just pisses me off that other players, at other teams, have also got away with definite red cards. Including this same fecking weekend.
Ah yes, fans who enjoy defending a refereeing decision that actually cost us a football match. As opposed to the extremely rare condition of biased football fans. It's difficult to see which one is more applicable at the moment...
It is annoying.
Surely that's the reason we should be appealing it
That doesn’t mean it wasn’t a red card. Why can’t people grasp this.
The initial challenge for the ball might not look high but the contact with the opposition players shin clearly is high.
Why has he ended up planting on the middle of the shin? Because he rolled over the top of the ball. Why has he rolled over the top of the ball? He's tackled too high up on the ball. If you tackle middle of the ball or lower then you cannot possibly plant your studs in the middle of the oppositions shin.
The issue with this argument is so many people on here seem to genuinely believe Casemiro only has 2 options.
1. Don't make the tackle at all
2. Make the tackle and unavoidably plant his studs in the middle of the oppositions shin.
We all know this isn't true. There's a 3rd option. You make the tackle without rolling over the top of the ball, winning it cleanly and we win the ball back and don't even concede a free kick. He was favourite to win the ball, he should have tackled more responsibly and won the ball without even conceding the foul, and we wouldn't be having this discussion.
I'm sure there's been similar or worse challenges gone unpunished. I sincerely hope our players are going out on the pitch thinking "I'll just plant my studs in the middle of the oppositions shin because I saw someone else get away with it the other day in a different game". Have some fecking game intelligence and stop giving the referees a decision to make.
Not really because I don't think "well X got away with it" is a valid argument to overturn a decision. It's a pretty good argument if we want to state we believe they have been incompetent and inconsistent and wish to make a wider point, but it doesn't help the fact a panel is going to see Casemiro's foot going over the top and there will be no grounds to rescind a ban.
That's not the gripe , it is lack of consistency. Saka made a damgerous tackle against Villa, guess what, not even a yellow. If this was red then so was Sabitzer against Leicester or Fabinho against Brighton or Yesterday against Chelsea , Leicester player should have been off and today Burns should have been sent off. You can't be this inconsistent.
That’s a separate issue as far as I’m concerned. We should be a little more critical of Casemiro for putting us in this position.
The outrage is down to a clear lack of consistency AND the fact it was not a clear and obvious error for VAR to intervene.
Ref saw it and dealt with it at the time.
But how is he supposed to know when Andy Carroll could destroy Eriksen with no repercussions? When Fabinho does this tackle every match without getting booked?
Yes it's a red according to football rules. But according to the standard premier league officiating it's barely a freekick.
I can't think of too many examples where a player has clearly gone ball first and then the momentum has carried him into a dangerous challenge, but if there are examples and a different decision was taken then we should appeal and highlight those.
What irks me about it is that I don't see a clear and obvious error there. The referee is looking right at it and gives a booking. He's seen everything that happened
I am not saying it wasn't a bad tackle but in my viewing experience I have seen far worse tackle even in real time. This felt like Marriner or whoever the clown in charge couldn't wait to send him off. I can bet you will see a similar tackle in near future and nothing will happen.
His feet was in the middle of the ball and you still insist he tackled too high?
And the bold part even worse. He's a DM he had to tackle it, it's his job to protect the back four. And it's football not some car factory with robots mate. Shit happens that's all.
That’s never been a basis for appeal. “Look at this incorrect decision you made in another match. We demand you do the same in ours.”
And that will be wrong because it’s reckless and deserves a red. The two issues are not the same thing. Inconsistent refereeing does not mean Casemiro isn’t a complete idiot for that challenge.
Can you answer, why has the rolled over the top of the ball?
Do you think it was possible for him to make this tackle without rolling over the top of the ball? Do you think it was possible for him to make this tackle without planting his studs in the middle of the oppositions shin? If yes, then what are you even arguing about?
If you accept that it's possible to make this tackle without rolling over the top of the ball and planting his studs in the middle of the oppositions shin, then you accept he's made some error in the way he's made this tackle.
I never suggested that he shouldn't make the tackle, I can only assume you're deliberately misreading by post at this point.
"Shit happens" just cost us a win. We could try optimising our chances of winning next time by not rolling over the top of the ball and planting our studs in the middle of the opposition's shin.
There are probably examples, but it's a bit like crying over spilt milk. Yes you can show other actions that resulted in a yellow on the day, but on this day it didn't and that's our starting point.
You're only showing inconsistency which is easy to evidence in football, but what we actually need to show is why the reasons the ref gave it don't apply. i.e. that it wasn't forceful, high, endangering an opponent. Pretty difficult unless we can get them to look at some doctored footage.
Agree of course, but the point is that there is reasonable doubt as to whether it is a correct decision. It's not a cut and dried red card IMO, so you use precedence to support your case
(All through this I'm wondering why I've entered into this debate)
What about the fact that the referee had already seen it and made his decision and the decision wasn't clearly wrong? VAR shouldn't have gotten involved and certainly shouldn't have framed it the way they did. Just play the clip. Don't freeze frame with his studs on the leg.
I think we challenge it on that point
Not a chance that it will be overturned, VAR didn't tell the ref to overturn it, they told him to take a look, the ref is the one who overturned it
I agree, and I think the fact that his foot came over the ball (which he made contact with first) and hit the opposition player means that it should have resulted in a yellow (as a rebuke to say 'yes, you got the ball, but you must be more careful.') Anyway, it's pointless going over it now, if no less frustrating.
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