Canadian Politics

VorZakone said:
Then is the argument here to decrease immigration so that Canadian citizens can get those jobs?
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The argument is to end capitalism (or heavily regulate it). Canada is rich enough to house all of those new immigrants.

As long as a few billionaires and corporations are the owners of everything, everything gonna get worse.

Start by forcing wealth distribution via a much higher minimum wage and higher corporation taxes than it currently is. You need real politicians for that, sadly.


2mufc0 said:
Doesn't make sense, as people are queuing up for jobs at McDonald's and Tim Horton's? There doesn't seem to be a demand for cheap labour it seems.
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Yeah I was going to replace need with want. Is not about demand, but desire. They want to keep cheap labour, cheap.

Also, cheap labour is not their only goal when they open the boarders. They (the owners) want to import poverty and misery as well. It's all to their benefit and part of how the system works.

 
@Cheimoon with all due respect, Trudeau and his party wouldn't be set to lose 96% of their parliament seats (160 going to 6) in the election, if the situation wasn't "so bad".

I don't know your age group, but I'm a millenial and my tech community of thousands are mostly millennials and Gen Z too, and everyone is complaining, there is a feel of hopelessness in the country, and a general negative vibe and mood. And the common denominator is Trudeau and his Liberal Party. I was an event host, so had to talk to every guest and hear them.

I packed and left the country last year, but my community still has events and I am in contact with hundreds of people in the city and from what I hear from them, it's only gotten worse.

Maybe it's different for Boomers or in different provinces. I can only talk for GTA and my own age demographics.
 
Kinsella said:
I’m curious to see how much pushback this receives.
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A study was done on Immigration in Canada and people's attitude towards this a few months ago. Here is the link and highlights:

https://www.environicsinstitute.org...on-about-immigration-and-refugees---fall-2024

Executive Summary​

2024 has been another challenging year for Canadians. While inflation finally began to recede, the cost of living remains high and housing continues to be unaffordable for many, and in short supply. The previous year saw a record number of new immigrants settling in cities across the country, and arrivals continued to build in 2024 until mid-year when the federal government finally announced new limits on the number of temporary foreign workers and international students. The global context has grown darker, with the intensification of conflict in the Middle East, and the unfolding drama of a pivotal US presidential election. This year also marks another dramatic surge in public opinion that immigration levels are too high, along with rising concerns about who is being admitted and how they are fitting in.

For the first time in a quarter century, a clear majority of Canadians say there is too much immigration, with this view strengthening considerably for the second consecutive year. This trend is evident across the population but is most significant in the Prairie provinces, while least so in Quebec.

The latest Focus Canada research shows that almost six in ten (58%) Canadians now believe the country accepts too many immigrants, reflecting a 14 percentage point increase since 2023, building on a 17 point increase over the previous year (2022 to 2023). This is the most rapid change over a two-year period since Focus Canada began asking this question in 1977, and reflects the largest proportion of Canadians who say there is too much immigration since 1998. The latest findings suggest the balance of public opinion about the volume of immigration currently being admitted into the country has effectively flipped from being acceptable (if not valuable) to problematic.


Rising agreement about too much immigration levels has taken place across the country, with the most substantial change taking place in the Prairie provinces. Quebec follows the general trend but at a slower pace, and increasingly is the region in Canada expressing comparatively less concern about immigration levels. Notably, on this question there is little difference in the perspectives of people who are first-generation and those born in Canada.


As before, opinions about immigration diverge most sharply across federal political party lines, with Conservative Party supporters most widely in agreement about too much immigration (now up to 80%). But there has also been an equivalent increase in this sentiment among those who would vote for the Liberal Party (45%) or NDP (36%).


Public support for immigration has been grounded in large part in the belief that it contributes to the country's economy. For two decades a decisive majority of Canadians have adopted this view, but rising concerns about immigration levels appear to be eroding this consensus. Close to seven in ten (68%) agree that immigration has a positive impact on the Canadian economy, but this majority has declined for the second consecutive year. Since 2023, this view has weakened most significantly in the Prairie provinces and among Canadians ages 18 to 29.

Public judgement about too much immigration continues to be driven by concerns about housing, but also by the state of the economy, about over-population and – increasingly – about how the immigration system is being managed.

Canadians who say the country is accepting too many immigrants cite various reasons for this view, but as in 2023 they are most likely to express concerns about how newcomers can be accommodated given the lack of housing availability and affordability, as well as concerns about the state of the economy, about over-population, and the potential strain on public finances. The most notable change from a year ago is an increase in the proportion who believe there is too much immigration because it is being poorly managed by government. By comparison, the public is less likely to focus concerns about high immigration levels due to a threat to Canada’s (or Quebec’s) culture and values, as a security or public health risk, or to an influx of international students.

Along with rising concerns about immigration levels, an increasing number of Canadians are expressing doubts about who is being admitted to the country and how well they are integrating into Canadian society. The public places most value on immigrants with specialized skills and those with a good education who settle permanently, and less on temporary foreign workers and international students.

A year ago – in 2023 – the public was expressing increasing concerns about the number of immigrants arriving in the country, but there was no corresponding change in how they felt about immigrants themselves and their place in Canada. In 2024 this is no longer the case. The increasing view that immigration levels are too high now appears to be accompanied by changes in how Canadians view immigrants themselves and how they are fitting in.

Over the past year, an increasing proportion of Canadians agree that many people claiming to be refugees are not real refugees (43%, up 7 points from 2023) and that too many immigrants are not adopting Canadian values (57%, up 9); in both cases the balance of opinion reflects a notable uptick in concerns following several years of notable stability. On this question, the balance of opinion is the same between racialized Canadians and those who identify as white.


Similarly, an increasing minority of Canadians believe the country accepts too many immigrants from racial minority groups (39%, up 15 points from 2022), and that immigration increases the level of crime in Canada (35%, up 21 points from 2019). Canadians are still more likely to say that immigration makes their local community a better place (32%) than a worse one (14%), but the balance of opinion is less positive than it was a year ago.


Such growing concerns notwithstanding, Canadians believe the government should continue to give some priority to newcomers across all categories of permanent and temporary status, with some more likely to be valued than others. As in 2023, the public most widely believes the government should give a high priority to immigrants with specialized skills in high demand (73%), and people with a good education and skills who move to Canada permanently (64%). Fewer assign this priority to admitting refugees fleeing conflict or persecution in their own countries (47%), and reuniting family members of current citizens (33%).


Canadians are least likely to say the government should prioritize lower-skilled workers hired short term to fill unfilled jobs (28%), and international students attending Canadian colleges and universities (27%). The relative importance assigned to the six immigrant categories remains the same as in 2023, but in all cases the proportion saying it should be a high priority has declined modestly over the past year. And it continues to be the case that even a majority of those who agree that there is currently too much immigration believe that some categories of immigrant – notably those who are highly skilled or well-educated – remain a high priority for the country.
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Hanks said:
The Real Estate issue has always been an issue in Canada, but it's absolutely exploded over the last decade of JT.

But the problem is much more than that, especially since he won his 3rd election, he went absolutely ballistic with immigration and temporary resident visas. Currently, 5 million people live on temporary visas in Canada, that's roughly, 12% of the whole population. And that's not mention that we're taxed to death for everything.

Back to immigration, It has massively contributed to the housing problem, soaring prices, and a very stagnant job market. Before, teenagers used to be able to get jobs as cashiers at coffeeshop chains, now, even if you want a minimum wage job, you must compete with hundreds of others. Canada added over 4 million people to its population since the last election in Fall 2021, but the infrastructure, housing, job market, and general society wasn't and ISN'T ready for it. I organize and manage a tech networking event business in Toronto (remotely) , and I needed a SMM. It's a part-time gig, max 20 hours per month at a 20% higher than min wage hourly contract salary...and within 1 day of posting on LinkedIn, I got 400 applicants. And then for much more basic minimum wage jobs like Tim Hortons or McDonalds you get these. And as we all know, unemployment always leads to more crime, and then you see why car theft, jewlery store robberies, have skyrocketed in the last couple of years.





You just need to walk around Toronto downtown to see it's so crowded, so dirty, so much drugs, construction everywhere, annoying traffic..,it just doesn't feel like a pleasant city anymore. I got robbed in my last month there by a druggie, and that was the last straw for me which made me move to Poland.

I was living in downtown Toronto for the most part of Trudeau's reign, and the decay and the decline which pursued was impossible to ignore. And all of this is without mentioning the insane cost of living in big cities in Canada that really doesn't match the average earnings. That's why he has less than 25% approval ratings and basically ditched by his own party too, and had to resign.

And now I see they are proroguing the parliament until March 24th. So once Trump comes in, and if he implements his tarriffs (that will kill whatever is left of the Canadian economy), we won't even have a functioning government to do something. Just great.
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All western countries are being suffering from soaring housing prices and it hardly has to do with low qualified immigration as they never had access to the housing market. Maybe a bit of pressure on the rental market but not the purchase. We al want to have retirement pensions but with 1 - 1.5 born index the only solution is immigration. You want cheap housing? buy a house in the middle of saskatchewan. I am sure you will find a 500-600k houses with some decent terrain.

I understand the grift that immigration is causing and definitely it needs to be tackled, but seeing in Vancouver in particular an owner that owns dozens of condos and houses and I imagine that is not the only one, it seems to me that this is the real problem

Canada is facing the same problems than others and Trudeau, certainly did a shitty job to make it even worse, but otherwise, you do well to move to Poland. A country that with his massive immigration to other countries contributed in some of the problems that you mention yourself and that after improving thanks to the wages earned outside poland, now polish people returns to the homeland. That happened in Spain when people immigrated in the 60s-70s to europe, when the conditions improved people returned to the country in the 80s and from 90-2010s we started to receive immigration en masse. After 2010, the economic recession put the hair cross to immigration and when I said put the hair cross I mean the people that caused the crisis finger pointed immigration when had nothing to do with it

On the non permanent residents (legal), official numbers are 3 million that still a lot? sure but a reason is that after during and after covid there was such a shortage that they increase the hours that the immigrant students could work and extended visas because local canadians didn't want to go back to menial jobs. After a while, they rolled back the hours and they put more stringent measures for students and partners than before COVID, but it will take time to take in effect as the approved extra visas still in effect

As I was saying, the house market is not because students can afford at all prices not even 20 years back. they are coming from not wealthy countries and they coming from scratch. The rich immigrants might have some pressure on it, specially in vancouver area, but they are not the ones making a line to work at mcdonalds. it had an effect in rentals where I could see a 30-40% raise in rent immediately post COVID but it certainly had relax the last 6-8 months as my fiancee is renting a unit and is not possible to maintain the prices of 1 year back, not even close

Immigration is the big talk nowadays and there are problems that we al face because of it, but the main problem is not immigration, is poverty and inequality, as you well point out. If an immigrant comes to a country and it has a job, he/she will not commit crimes, the same for the local population that can feel pushed to the same path. 1 month ago, my dad had to "negotiate" with a squatter that lived on top of an abandoned unit above him. Very unpleasant and part of what immigration and inequality brings. And all this will need to be tackled, filtering but also rampant capitalism that causes this.

But this is hardly a canadian problem and certainly is not a problem for Poland that 20 years back was a country that needed to be developed and thanks to the population that immigrated and the help that had and still have from the European Union that promoted this immigration had developed to a point that their population can return back and they can start receiving immigration and in 20 years will moan about too much immigration (probably they are starting too) and the problems that others caused. Is a continuous cycle and is the next challange that government will tackle the next few years to not tackle the real problems. When they will get rid of the excuse of immigration, lets see which other excuse will find to keep enriching themselves and who is bankrolling them
 
Canada's policy of what constitute a federal crime is pretty insane, to apply for a 3 year temporary entry visa they would literally reject you if you had a DUI 10 years ago (I haven't got one at all) or anything driving related, I got questioned by a accident I had in the UK in 2007 which I reported to the Police at the time and got points on my licence for, I get that you are weeding out the drunk drivers from entering the country but based on their rules, half of America is technically illegible to enter Canada
 
CallyRed said:
Resignation eh? What's that all aboot
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Trudeau has been sinking in the polls: he's basically just been in power for too long, and the opposition is now successfully able to pin all issues directly on him. Sometimes that's true, sometimes not, but the effect is the same: he's deeply unpopular now. He has therefore been under pressure to resign for almost a year now, also within his own party. The latter was pretty low-key, until it exploded when Freeland resigned in December - see a bit up for my post on that. After that, his position quickly became untenable, and so he has admitted the reality of that situation.
 
Hanks said:
@Cheimoon with all due respect, Trudeau and his party wouldn't be set to lose 96% of their parliament seats (160 going to 6) in the election, if the situation wasn't "so bad".

I don't know your age group, but I'm a millenial and my tech community of thousands are mostly millennials and Gen Z too, and everyone is complaining, there is a feel of hopelessness in the country, and a general negative vibe and mood. And the common denominator is Trudeau and his Liberal Party. I was an event host, so had to talk to every guest and hear them.

I packed and left the country last year, but my community still has events and I am in contact with hundreds of people in the city and from what I hear from them, it's only gotten worse.

Maybe it's different for Boomers or in different provinces. I can only talk for GTA and my own age demographics.
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Polls don't necessarily reflect actual elections and you'd have to look at vote percentage rather than seats; but either way, I don't disagree that Trudeau is deeply disliked and that the Liberals will lose heavily in the next election. Nobody around me thinks the country is fundamentally broken or anything like that though; I'm sorry, but that that just sounds like nonsense to me, and pretty misinformed (if not hysterical) on the part of whoever would claim that.

I have no idea why anyone would feel 'hopeless' about the country as a whole. And to pin so much blame purely on the Liberals or Trudeau sounds to me like people that are chronically online and have fallen for the polarization trap (which Poilievre of course really likes setting).
 
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Cheimoon said:
Yes. It's really not so bad in Canada; I'd say @Hanks is hugely exaggerating.

Everyone is in support of immigration. It's just the numbers have been too high to keep up with housing demand - which is also why housing prices are so high. Yes, it's a huge country, but people want to live in the big cities. Housing construction doesn't keep up, so there you go.

It's not the same everywhere btw, housing prices in Quebec remain much more reasonable, and also in many other parts of the country.

Back to immigration, it's seen as a solution to aging and shortages in various job sectors, which is why numbers have been allowed to increase significantly. It's being brought down now for the coming years though. It also has to be kept in mind that Canadas migrants mostly come through selection processes, so it's much more targeted than in Europe or the US. (Canada is able to do that through its geographical position.)
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No one that I know in Ontario is in support of immigration anymore - especially the way the Canadian Government has been doing it.

Jobs that used to have 22 applicants now have 300+ applicants, no high school kid could get a job this summer. It is all Temporary Foreign Workers and international students.

The international students going to the diploma mill colleges (like Conestoga College) barely go to school, they are here for PR and to work.
Rents are through the roof and house prices are insane. There are many other factors to the house prices but the mass immigration is hurting everyone. The kids are being exploited for slave labour and the city that I have lived in for the last 20 years is near unrecognizable.

I volunteer at a food bank and they come in numbers from 15-20 per night to take food. They know their college has a food bank but they raid every one in the city. We have homeless Canadians crying at the end of the night when they come to get food because there is none left. We cannot id or deny service to anyone.

They are supposed to have 10k in a GIC (now raised to 30K) but they borrow the money and come to work here to make cash. They work under the table, most of the new ones are rude, uncultured and treat women like shit. As a result Indians used to be liked and respected in Canada now that has sadly changed.

People also do not like that most of the immigrants are from one province in India - Punjab.
There has to be country caps for immigration to ensure diversity because there is little to none now.
 
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Prior to the massive rise in temporary foreign workers and immigration, every business in Canada was suffering from a "staff shortage" post covid. Everyone was desperate for employees no matter which sector of the economy you looked at.

I don't want to fall into the "people don't want to work" trope, but it was definitely the case that post covid a number of Canadians had exited the workforce and were not attempting to re-enter it.

There have been alarm bells sounding for at least a couple years about Canada's falling productivity per capita.

It feels like there is very little incentive for people to rejoin the workforce, honestly. I specialize in family law, which gives me an interesting glimpse at all kinds of people's financials. A full time teacher in today's Canadian economy will quite literally never be able to buy a house. The housing market and it's insane inflation is propping up the retirements and balance sheets of the 50+ contingent while making it impossible for anyone younger to build a future.

tl;dr - the immigration issue is a poor attempt to fix, and also a symptom, of an already existing problem.
 
ravi2 said:
No one that I know in Ontario is in support of immigration anymore - especially the way the Canadian Government has been doing it.

Jobs that used to have 22 applicants now have 300+ applicants, no high school kid could get a job this summer. It is all Temporary Foreign Workers and international students.

The international students going to the diploma mill colleges (like Conestoga College) barely go to school, they are here for PR and to work.
Rents are through the roof and house prices are insane. There are many other factors to the house prices but the mass immigration is hurting everyone. The kids are being exploited for slave labour and the city that I have lived in for the last 20 years is near unrecognizable.

I volunteer at a food bank and they come in numbers from 15-20 per night to take food. They know their college has a food bank but they raid every one in the city. We have homeless Canadians crying at the end of the night when they come to get food because there is none left. We cannot id or deny service to anyone.

They are supposed to have 10k in a GIC (now raised to 30K) but they borrow the money and come to work here to make cash. They work under the table, most of the new ones are rude, uncultured and treat women like shit. As a result Indians used to be liked and respected in Canada now that has sadly changed.

People also do not like that most of the immigrants are from one province in India - Punjab.
There has to be country caps for immigration to ensure diversity because there is little to none now.
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Sorry, I worded that poorly. I meant that there are generally no cultural objections to immigration. It's 'just' about how the immigration system works in practice. Which is significant difference from the discussions being held in the US and most of Europe. I think it's important to make that clear.
Bebe said:
Prior to the massive rise in temporary foreign workers and immigration, every business in Canada was suffering from a "staff shortage" post covid. Everyone was desperate for employees no matter which sector of the economy you looked at.

I don't want to fall into the "people don't want to work" trope, but it was definitely the case that post covid a number of Canadians had exited the workforce and were not attempting to re-enter it.

There have been alarm bells sounding for at least a couple years about Canada's falling productivity per capita.

It feels like there is very little incentive for people to rejoin the workforce, honestly. I specialize in family law, which gives me an interesting glimpse at all kinds of people's financials. A full time teacher in today's Canadian economy will quite literally never be able to buy a house. The housing market and it's insane inflation is propping up the retirements and balance sheets of the 50+ contingent while making it impossible for anyone younger to build a future.

tl;dr - the immigration issue is a poor attempt to fix, and also a symptom, of an already existing problem.
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Depends where you live, but yes. And Canada has a big issue (well, like many countries) with aging: once the boomer generation has fully retired, we're basically fecked. We need a lot of immigration to compensate for that - but then the country can't manage such a large population influx all at once. It's a big operational question. And on top of that: no (realistic) amount of immigration can compensate for the retirement wave. More structural change is needed.

This is similar to many countries though; it's not unique to Canada.
 
Toronto has an average house price of over $1 million CAD.

Politicians underestimate just how badly the under 30s see the world that places those sorts of barriers in front of them. You can't writeoff your own citizens like that, condemining them to a lifetime of penury paying rents to their parent's generation and not expect consequences.

Its not just Canada either, its hapenning here too, and right across europe. Its one of the reasons the far right are doing so well.
 
Bebe said:
Prior to the massive rise in temporary foreign workers and immigration, every business in Canada was suffering from a "staff shortage" post covid. Everyone was desperate for employees no matter which sector of the economy you looked at.

I don't want to fall into the "people don't want to work" trope, but it was definitely the case that post covid a number of Canadians had exited the workforce and were not attempting to re-enter it.

There have been alarm bells sounding for at least a couple years about Canada's falling productivity per capita.

It feels like there is very little incentive for people to rejoin the workforce, honestly. I specialize in family law, which gives me an interesting glimpse at all kinds of people's financials. A full time teacher in today's Canadian economy will quite literally never be able to buy a house. The housing market and it's insane inflation is propping up the retirements and balance sheets of the 50+ contingent while making it impossible for anyone younger to build a future.

tl;dr - the immigration issue is a poor attempt to fix, and also a symptom, of an already existing problem.
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Bolded: how were these people making ends meet? Welfare?
 
just reading the last few pages, nothing here seems special to canada, we are having these problems all over the developed world. Rising age demographics coupled with increasing wealth inequality = ticking time bomb.
 
Hanks said:
A study was done on Immigration in Canada and people's attitude towards this a few months ago. Here is the link and highlights:

https://www.environicsinstitute.org...on-about-immigration-and-refugees---fall-2024
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Thanks for the link. Each place is different of course but it does correlate with experiences in other countries.

I find that we’re almost living in some kind of post-truth world when it comes to that particular issue. And now the inevitable backlash has arrived.
 
Oo0AahCantona said:
just reading the last few pages, nothing here seems special to canada, we are having these problems all over the developed world. Rising age demographics coupled with increasing wealth inequality = ticking time bomb.
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Overall - absolutely. But housing prices in the Toronto and Vancouver areas are really something else I think (as in, uniquely crazy expensive).
 
Annnnd Trump trying to annex us again. If I read between the lines he wants a euro zone style economic union?
 
VorZakone said:
Bolded: how were these people making ends meet? Welfare?
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There is a lot of talk about the covid payments made to unemployed workers, but I doubt that can be what sustained, and continues to sustain people. I'm guessing, but I think the collective bank of Mom and Dad is doing a lot of heavy lifting right now. Mom and Dad can afford to support adult children because their assets keep skyrocketing in value. Same applies to partners/spouses whose households have benefited from inflation and asset growth.

One of the difficulties in understanding Canada's economy right now imo is that so much of the current downturn seems to be some form of "silent recession". It's hard to find information that describes what's happening in a way that accords with reality on the ground.

VorZakone said:
And politicians could get punished by voters if those voters' home prices drop...


https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/housing-prices-affordability-real-estate-1.7170775
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This is a much bigger issue than immigration. Trudeau said something in the last few months basically confirming that this mentality rules in Ottawa. We're screwed if the political will to fix things doesn't even exist.
 
Twisted_Woody said:
Annnnd Trump trying to annex us again. If I read between the lines he wants a euro zone style economic union?
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I think that's reading too much into it. He's just increasing the pressure to get more action from Canada on the issues he's been raising.

And he's probably also simply enjoying how people are getting all wound up about this stuff.
 
Bebe said:
This is a much bigger issue than immigration. Trudeau said something in the last few months basically confirming that this mentality rules in Ottawa. We're screwed if the political will to fix things doesn't even exist.
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It's the problem with these things. Everyone with a house wants its value to stay the same (or at least well above whatever they paid), while everyone without wants prices to plummet.

The former issue actually really only applies to people who recently got a mortgage, because they'd be in trouble if they can't pay anymore and their house's value has dropped below the mortgage value. But unfortunately, that's not how people think. It's been shown that people actually start living more expensively when house prices go up (e.g., bigger cars on their driveways). It's bizarre to me, but there you are.

And as much as politicians should think bigger picture than immediate voter concerns, I don't know any that actually do that unfortunately.
 
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Also (and sorry for the series of posts), I see people are now criticizing Trudeau for stepping down just before Trump takes office. So now they want him to stay longer? Make up your minds...

(I know, they aren't all the same people. But it's funny anyway.)
 
Cheimoon said:
I think that's reading too much into it. He's just increasing the pressure to get more action from Canada on the issues he's been raising.

And he's probably also simply enjoying how people are getting all wound up about this stuff.
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Agree with every word.

I'd add that I think he's having fun with Trudeau after Trudeau had somewhat stood up to him during his first reign. There was a lot of pro-Trudeau memery in Trump's first reign about Trudeau resisting the patented Trump handshake, being young, charismatic and a counterpoint to Trump's bovine nature. I doubt Trump forgets that stuff.

Cheimoon said:
It's the problem with these things. Everyone with.anhouse wants its value to stay the same (or at least we'll above whatever they paid), while everyone without wants prices to plummet.

The former issue actually really only applies to people who recently got a mortgage, because they'd be in trouble if they can't pay anymore and their house's value has dropped below the mortgage value. But unfortunately, that's not how people think. It's been shown that people actually start living more expensively when house prices go up (e.g., bigger cars on their driveways). It's bizarre to me, but there you are.

And as much as politicians should think bigger picture than immediate voter concerns, I don't know any that actually do that unfortunately.
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Watching everyone decide to get a dog, start home renos, move or buy a new vehicle during covid was a truly eye-opening experience for me.

As for the house prices thing, I agree that there's always a tension between those with and those without. And I'm in the without camp, which no doubt influences my views. With that caveat aside, the Canadian economy is one of most inflated housing bubbles in the world. If either of team "with" or team "without" are getting every slice of cake and eating it too, the balance has clearly been lost.
 
Bebe said:
Agree with every word.

I'd add that I think he's having fun with Trudeau after Trudeau had somewhat stood up to him during his first reign. There was a lot of pro-Trudeau memery in Trump's first reign about Trudeau resisting the patented Trump handshake, being young, charismatic and a counterpoint to Trump's bovine nature. I doubt Trump forgets that stuff.



Watching everyone decide to get a dog, start home renos, move or buy a new vehicle during covid was a truly eye-opening experience for me.

As for the house prices thing, I agree that there's always a tension between those with and those without. And I'm in the without camp, which no doubt influences my views. With that caveat aside, the Canadian economy is one of most inflated housing bubbles in the world. If either of team "with" or team "without" are getting every slice of cake and eating it too, the balance has clearly been lost.
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I am team "With" by proxy and I think the market is a travesty and I would like the market to plummet without losing our house and without struggling. Housing should be a right, not speculation and "investment". You have plenty of stocks and financial products where to invest. And those secondary stock markets should be forbidden too. But that is another topic
 
africanspur said:
The amount of actually habitable land in Canada is minuscule compared to the USA. From memory, the majority of Canadians live south of the 49th parallel.
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Yes. However, Canada will be one of positive beneficiaries of climate change.

Trump know this. No wonder he is blabbering about 51st state nonsense.
 
Bebe said:
As for the house prices thing, I agree that there's always a tension between those with and those without. And I'm in the without camp, which no doubt influences my views. With that caveat aside, the Canadian economy is one of most inflated housing bubbles in the world. If either of team "with" or team "without" are getting every slice of cake and eating it too, the balance has clearly been lost.
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I'm also team 'with' for what it's worth, but I do want the house market to get back to normalcy. This is utterly ridiculous and unsustainable.

It would help if Canada dropped the dream of suburban freestanding house though. It's unsustainable in terms of climate change and transportation. But then I have one of those myself as well, so...
4bars said:
How is that? and feel free to move the conversation to a climate change thread
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Canada's North won't be a tundra anymore if climate change continues.

But on the flipside, it will be decades before that land becomes arable, and in the meantime, the Prairies will see the arability of the their land drop significantly - which has in fact started already, with the lack of snow and ensuing huge droughts they're experiencing. So I doubt you can really speak of a win for Canada, in the balance of things.
 
4bars said:
I am team "With" by proxy and I think the market is a travesty and I would like the market to plummet without losing our house and without struggling. Housing should be a right, not speculation and "investment". You have plenty of stocks and financial products where to invest. And those secondary stock markets should be forbidden too. But that is another topic
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Cheimoon said:
I'm also team 'with' for what it's worth, but I do want the house market to get back to normalcy. This is utterly ridiculous and unsustainable.

It would help if Canada dropped the dream of suburban freestanding house though. It's unsustainable in terms of climate change and transportation. But then I have one of those myself as well, so...
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I should have qualified my post by saying that plenty of homeowners or otherwise wealthy people know the current situation is absurd. Appreciate you both for sharing that view. I'm in the without camp but also one of those unwilling to give up the suburban free-standing dream :lol:

I had an old landlord that I'm still friends with who was up in arms when the province here banned short term rentals. "I'm selling, it's not worth it if I can only bring in $3k per month to a long term tenant. That barely covers the mortgage". Her amazement that she might have to contribute to her own asset blew my mind. The even sadder reality is that if everyone did as she did, and actually sold, we'd be making progress. But instead we have thousands of newly built condos sitting unoccupied in Canada's large cities because the owners bought in at a high price and are trying to wait it out rather than sell at a loss. And the BoC is setting up conditions to bail those owners out.
 
Bebe said:
I should have qualified my post by saying that plenty of homeowners or otherwise wealthy people know the current situation is absurd. Appreciate you both for sharing that view. I'm in the without camp but also one of those unwilling to give up the suburban free-standing dream :lol:

I had an old landlord that I'm still friends with who was up in arms when the province here banned short term rentals. "I'm selling, it's not worth it if I can only bring in $3k per month to a long term tenant. That barely covers the mortgage". Her amazement that she might have to contribute to her own asset blew my mind. The even sadder reality is that if everyone did as she did, and actually sold, we'd be making progress. But instead we have thousands of newly built condos sitting unoccupied in Canada's large cities because the owners bought in at a high price and are trying to wait it out rather than sell at a loss. And the BoC is setting up conditions to bail those owners out.
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Yeah, there's also a lot of speculation going on... What's the BoC though? I don't know that abbreviation.

For a freestanding house, you're much better off in a smaller town away from the big cities. In Quebec, places like Trois-Rivières and Sherbrooke are still very affordable, and would offer high quality of life in a medium-sized city, while still within 2h of big cities. But I know people don't want to quit their preferred area for that.
 
Cheimoon said:
Yeah, there's also a lot of speculation going on... What's the BoC though? I don't know that abbreviation.

For a freestanding house, you're much better off in a smaller town away from the big cities. In Quebec, places like Trois-Rivières and Sherbrooke are still very affordable, and would offer high quality of life in a medium-sized city, while still within 2h of big cities. But I know people don't want to quit their preferred area for that.
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Bank of Canada
 
So this is likely Canada's new Prime Minister some time this year:

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/poilievre-jordan-peterson-interview-1.7423197

In interview with Jordan Peterson...

I won't ever vote conservative, but I accept and understand the government will seesaw. And even if I won't vote for them, I don't have a big issue with people like Ford in Ontario Legault in Quebec, or Houston in Nova Scotia. But Poilievre is something else entirely.
 
Bebe said:
He's going to win a massive majority and I'm truly concerned that I'll have to leave Canada before he's finished. Trudeau's gov't sucked, but it'll be nothing compared to what's coming.
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What are his main policies that would make you want to leave ?
 
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