Well, that's on our strikers to improve their finishing, isn't it? XG may not tell the full picture, but it does give an indication of the quality of chances a team had. We created far more vs Bournemouth than we did vs Newcastle. Anyone saying Bruno wouldn't have made the slightest bit of difference tonight is in denial.
8
Season Average Rating
- Appearances
- 46
- Goals
- 12
- Assists
- 16
- Yellow cards
- 9
- Red cards
- 3
So thats only down to one player in our lineup? You sure about that?
I'd like to quote your own words: How do you know that? Like honestly? We didn't lose todays game because we didn't create enough chances. We conceded poor goals due to being too weak all around the pitch. And you just have to re-watch the Wolves game to see how well Bruno does in games where physicality is on. I guess I can agree to the extent that we might have created a few more of those 0.04 xG thingies, mostly lobbed balls in behind, that none of our forwards is going to capitalize from anyways. And for what its worth - Casemiro done one of his best Bruno impressions today, even an outside-of-the-boot pass.
For all the whining about negativity that thread has seen, I think it is particularly noteworthy, that it is now you, who use a shit performance as prop toy to big up your favorite player. I mean, at this point, my time here is amost done anyways but honestly, don't you think, that this is a bit ironic?
Mate you were the one who brought up the Bournemouth result in the Bruno thread immediately after the Newcastle game. Now that I've compared the xg of the two games, you seem to want to move the goalposts.
Well we seem incapable of keeping clean sheets under Amorim at the moment so don't you think it would be best to discuss why we created very little in the attacking third tonight instead of bemoaning the 2 goals that we conceded as per?
My main takeaway from tonight's game was that we looked more spineless and lacking creativity than usual. If you can't join the dots and understand why I felt the need to comment on this thread at FT, after I had the aforementioned opinion on tonight's game, then perhaps you should heed your impulse to sign off.
Nope. Wasn't me. But given that you also weren't the one actually trying to ride that bike (even though you put in way more effort trying to), there is no point to continue this tangent.
Why would we discuss it - the answer for you is clear, isn't it? If only we had Bruno, we would have had more xG. Thats the thing. Result might have been the same but anybody in here would have found something in it to feel himself confirmed. Again, what I find odd is that you were the one trying to stir up the pot of sh** today. I honestly thought, you'd be better than that and was sure you know full well that a bad performance without a player shouldn't be used to big up a missing player.
You thought we looked more spineless than usual today? Thats your takeaway?
And for the sign-off impulse, you'll have to remain a little more patient. But at this point it isn't even 24 hours yet.
Absolutely nothing to do with missing Ugarte and starting Zirkzee in front of a midfield two with a combined age of 64.
With Bruno we're shite and without him we're shite. Therefore, he's not that great to really be losing sleep over.. He's as replaceable as anyone else in this team.
I'm a big fan of Bruno and keep defending him, but I'm not convinced today's match ends any other way with him on the pitch
This wasn't you?
Why is this so unacceptable in your book? Do you not think City fans should be allowed to bemoan the loss of Rodri after one of their many bad performances without him this season?
Yes. You sound surprised? I haven't seen us look that spineless since Ten Hag. At least vs Forest and Bournemouth we put up more of a fight.
That's a very reductive way of looking at things. Without Bruno, we look more devoid of ideas in the final third.
And likewise, it's disingenuous of you to bump this thread as a gotcha to whatever point you're trying to prove about Bruno. The general criticism around Bruno is absolutely fair, grounded in reality and whilst he has his qualities, he also has his fair share of problems that come along with it. Tonight's game showed nothing that we don't already know about the team with or without Bruno.
I joined the topic, but another poster brought Bournemouth into the discussion, you replied, I replied.This wasn't you?
Come on man. As if you didn't phrase it in a way as if you wanted to show off all Bruno critics that we are just as bad and worse without him. I personally wouldn't have replied when you would have said that we may have created a few more chances but you choose a different path.
I am suprised. I thought, we didn't look more spineless than we did against Wolves. And I think, I wrote something along the lines of "we were outworked" in almost all of our last 10 day games. Against wolves, they attacked us with physicality and we crumbled mostly. Today was more or less the same - with one difference not having Ugarte on the field who is one the very few who isn't eaten alive...Bruno would have helped in this aspect more than Eriksen, I'll give you that. But he has shown what physicality does to him time and time again.
He is one of the few who uses 1st touch passes (with all the risk and reward it brings). That is definitely the way forward, but I honestly think, Amorim is going for a different kind of chances than some of the hit and hope actions that definitely are part of Brunos arsenal
We basically rely on a kid (Amad) and an OAP (Eriksen) to do anything creative whatsoever when Bruno is missing.
We need to look at what a Bruno-less future looks like, he hasn't learned his lessons about when to try the hollywood balls - but we are absolutely lost without him in the here-and-now.
We need to look at what a Bruno-less future looks like, he hasn't learned his lessons about when to try the hollywood balls - but we are absolutely lost without him in the here-and-now.
You say it's disingenuous to bump this thread as we already know what we look like without Bruno and yet I guarantee we'll see dozens of posts in the coming weeks insisting that he should be dropped to allow us to have more control. I've seen plenty of posts advocating for Zirkzee to start as the 10 ahead of him. That experiment lasted 30 minutes tonight.
Nobody predicted ETH would play Mazraoui at the 10 and that Amorim would have Ugarte suspended and decided to play Zirkzee instead of Mainoo.
The few times we've seen Bruno out of the team, we've not had enough quality available (due to injuries/suspension) or our managers have made ridiculous player selections so the jury is still out on whether we can play better without him. What's true though is that Bruno alone isn't elevating us against his weaknesses. That's not on him alone but he's not blameless.
People act like Bruno is Mesut Ozil at Arsenal. Yeah sure, Ozil got hacked for his work rate, not his creativity. Ozil is more like what Rashford is on the pitch playing with no work rate.
For 90% of goals the club scores, whether its Hojlund, Amad, Garnacho, Rashford or whoever, its Bruno who is heavily part of the goal.
Do people think having De Bruyne next to Ugarte would give more chances to Hojlund to score goals? No because Hojlund is shit. De bruyne wouldnt be holding on to possesion to try find Hojlund's or Zirkzee's best run because those moment never comes unless De Bruyne breaks the defence all by himself. Is he going to take his time with the ball at his feet waiting for Zirkzee to make the right timed run in to the box? No because those runs never occur.
Bruno plays in a certain way because he has to.
He has to be creativite without taking his time because soon as he takes his time, the chance has gone trying to get Hojlund, Garnacho and Rashford to get involved and score a goal.
This whole work rate is important is bullshit The fans dont care about that, they would have 11 Xavi's on the pitch rather than having any sort of player with the ability to create 5 chances in a match by himself out of absolutely nothing.
Im so glad the people who say Buno is one of the main reasons we play crap have to sit down crying trying to prove their words soon after a match where we created 1 shot on goal whilst holding on to 53% possession
I think playing as a wide 10 is bad both when ten hag and amorim has used him there but is much much better as a CM next to Ugarte, has the work rate, intensity, the only element of creative ability in the whole 40 players in our squad except Eriksen and still has the ability to make a quick physical tackle even if they are not clean or come in too late; something that Mainoo & Eriksen lacks.
Retaining posssion is bullshit & used as an excuse as to why we are a poor team. If we want to retain possesion then lets start Mainoo in every game and give him our captaincy.
Then people will realise that Bruno isnt the reason we cant hold on to possesion -
But holding on to possesion when nobody in the whole first 11 can do anything with any sort of possesion is the real problem at United.
For 90% of goals the club scores, whether its Hojlund, Amad, Garnacho, Rashford or whoever, its Bruno who is heavily part of the goal.
Do people think having De Bruyne next to Ugarte would give more chances to Hojlund to score goals? No because Hojlund is shit. De bruyne wouldnt be holding on to possesion to try find Hojlund's or Zirkzee's best run because those moment never comes unless De Bruyne breaks the defence all by himself. Is he going to take his time with the ball at his feet waiting for Zirkzee to make the right timed run in to the box? No because those runs never occur.
Bruno plays in a certain way because he has to.
He has to be creativite without taking his time because soon as he takes his time, the chance has gone trying to get Hojlund, Garnacho and Rashford to get involved and score a goal.
This whole work rate is important is bullshit The fans dont care about that, they would have 11 Xavi's on the pitch rather than having any sort of player with the ability to create 5 chances in a match by himself out of absolutely nothing.
Im so glad the people who say Buno is one of the main reasons we play crap have to sit down crying trying to prove their words soon after a match where we created 1 shot on goal whilst holding on to 53% possession
I think playing as a wide 10 is bad both when ten hag and amorim has used him there but is much much better as a CM next to Ugarte, has the work rate, intensity, the only element of creative ability in the whole 40 players in our squad except Eriksen and still has the ability to make a quick physical tackle even if they are not clean or come in too late; something that Mainoo & Eriksen lacks.
Retaining posssion is bullshit & used as an excuse as to why we are a poor team. If we want to retain possesion then lets start Mainoo in every game and give him our captaincy.
Then people will realise that Bruno isnt the reason we cant hold on to possesion -
But holding on to possesion when nobody in the whole first 11 can do anything with any sort of possesion is the real problem at United.
Bruno’s biggest weakest at #8 is that the #10s are of insufficient quality.
Bruno’s biggest weakness at #10 is there is no Bruno at #8 to tempo control and feed him the ball.
Still our best player, still being hung out to dry by a lack of quality in our starting XI. A new manager doesn’t change this.
Bruno’s biggest weakness at #10 is there is no Bruno at #8 to tempo control and feed him the ball.
Still our best player, still being hung out to dry by a lack of quality in our starting XI. A new manager doesn’t change this.
With or without Bruno, Utd are currently awful. I do think that second half against Newcastle we were slightly less awful and I am glad Bruno wasn’t playing.
Bruno isn’t the problem, but neither is he is the solution. Whatever one thinks of his ability, he certainly doesn’t fit in Amorim’s tactics.
Why? He’s a top #10 (despite no good #8 when he plays there) and so far he’s been the best advanced #8 of all our options.
You don't have to trust me - but I spent 6 years trying to understand Bruno, I've learnt the way he plays, passes and shots, spent way too much time on right and left, even spent any where not to (Although becoming more and more problematic to go there now, half a decade ago it was a bit easier for us in UK to get goals but the situation has meant a letter of invitation is no longer enough. Could never get permission to use diplomatic passport either).
No Bruno, and we instantly provide the worst half of football I have seen in 30 years as a Manchester United supporter.
We have no creativity without Bruno, although that was always obvious to anyone with a functioning brain.
We have no creativity without Bruno, although that was always obvious to anyone with a functioning brain.
Lets not forget the reason he wasn't playing is because he's a petulant moronic clown who got his third sending off of the season. But sure let's shit on the rest of the team and absolve this fraud who cost us in the last match and this one.
Yeah but come on, the first time we play well without Bruno there'll be plenty in here using that one game to prove their point. They're desperate for it to happen. It just never does.
We've provided equally shite halves with Bruno. Like the Spurs home game.
Or the multiple Liverpool away and home games.
If you cannot conduct yourself in here, don't post. Thread bans, points and warnings are being issued, and Bruno being the hill you die on, is a really silly place to fall on your sword.
He's still our only consistent creative outlet.
There is the other side of the coin. No proper replacement for him. Mount hasn't been fit for like what, 2 years now.
I am hopeful he can drop into the CMs to help there as I want more pace/dribbling ability in the 10s to help Hojlund out. Ugarte and him would make a solid pair in my eyes, both graft and Bruno can be more of the orchestrator and keep things ticking over, plus he is more mobile than Case/Eriksen.
I don’t think it’s that big a problem to big up Bruno when he not played but yes it created some aggro.
My thoughts are Bruno as captain should perform better. Set example not stats. He is back for Sunday at Anfield. Scene of his biggest crime. What a great time it would have to redeem himself then and lead us to glory.
In the league and with Bruno we didn't score against Wolves, Bournemouth, Arsenal, Liverpool, Spurs and Palace, plenty of games where he couldn't do jack shit and the worst half seen in history of our club is the half where Liverpool shipped 6 goals past us and Bruno was not only present but the worst player on the pitch that day.
This game isn't as bad as the losses vs Liverpool, Spurs, and Bournemouth where we shipped 3 goals at home.
I doubt very much that Bruno would have helped us not to ship those two piss-easy goals last night, but his absence was painfully obvious, particularly in the opening 30 minutes.
The team looked like amateurs looking around at each other wondering where the guy who usually helps them was. It was only when Mainoo came on with the confidence and conviction to get on the ball that things started to improve a bit. It’s one thing that seems to be missed with those who dislike Bruno, and I’ve harped on about it a few times, his willingness to receive the ball from teammates in comparison to others is why he remains our most important player.
We also missed him organising everyone throughout the game, something which has been very evident since Amorim arrived and changed our way of playing. It’s no wonder the manager values him so highly currently.
The team looked like amateurs looking around at each other wondering where the guy who usually helps them was. It was only when Mainoo came on with the confidence and conviction to get on the ball that things started to improve a bit. It’s one thing that seems to be missed with those who dislike Bruno, and I’ve harped on about it a few times, his willingness to receive the ball from teammates in comparison to others is why he remains our most important player.
We also missed him organising everyone throughout the game, something which has been very evident since Amorim arrived and changed our way of playing. It’s no wonder the manager values him so highly currently.
What minute will he be sent off against Liverpool
I think, you have a point here but besides "willingness" he also is one of the few people to have at least enough fitness and workrate to move around to make himself available. You don't see too much of this apart from him which certainly is a problem - yet it isn't too long ago people were happy to see Eriksen and Casemiro stay on because "they certainly can do a job for us".
Honestly not sure he would have added anything to that game yesterday.
He wouldn't have played worse than Zirkzee or Casemiro surely at least. But yes we've had just as many bad results with him on the pitch to know he's not a solution (if anything he contributes to the problem, but before we think of shipping him, there's at least 5 other players to send to Saudi or wherever)
Bang on. Every United and Portugal manager has played him almost every minute he's been available because he has certain attributes that his teammates rely on him for, such as his willingness to show for the ball and try to create an opening to change the momentum of the game. We looked so flat yesterday, particularly before Mainoo came on.
Yesh yesh, so we can all agree that he's a great player?
Happy Bru Year!
Happy Bru Year!
It'd have been 4 or 5 if he'd have played...he'd have started relentlessly giving the ball away with overhit speculative passesYesh yesh, so we can all agree that he's a great player?
Happy Bru Year!