[Desert Eagle]

I also suspect that things would be far worse if Bruno wasn't given freedom or was benched. We are not good enough as a team.

Hopefully the day comes soon when your suspicions can be put to the test. I suspect we will improve as a team with this petulant, weak, crybaby, diving, cheating wasteman captain out of the starting 11.

There are arguably 3 versions of "Good Bruno":

1. Portugal Bruno
An actual star. He does everything. He even occasionally dribbles and scores from a distance, which blows my mind.

2. The first 1.5 seasons under Ole
Chaotic, but deadly. Perfect for that style of football.

3. Ten Hag's first season
Drops deeper, defends fairly well and is more involved in the build up.

That was so funny I have to do a counter: There are arguably 3 versions of "Bad Bruno"

1. Regular Bruno: This is him most matchdays. Sprinting randomly and misplacing simple passes. Create chances for the oppositon, maybe a couple for us. A couple dives and some moaning sprinkled in.

2. Special Bruno: When the going gets tough , Bruno gets stuffed. Shirking out of challenges or just punting the ball at opponents. Complains to his teammates constantly and blames them when his edge of the box shot goes 20 yards over the bar. gives you that extra combination of petulance and weakness with just the right out of touchness. Think Darren Gibson but worse physically and mentally

3.Liverpool Bruno: Getting hammered by your biggest rivals. Just give up on the team and the badge, Bent, Bowed, Broken Bruno.

 

[RedDevil@84]

Nor do you get to pick the order in which your players for sale are sold.

You and I don't get to pick anything

The point was when it comes to player sales, only few players can be sold and replaced every summer and hence club has to prioritize.
So which player needs to go first is a very valid discussion point on a fan forum without being accused of deflection and excuses.

 

[Scandi Red]

@Desert Eagle I'll give your post the level of seriousness and intelligence it deserves and never respond to you in this thread again.

1. Regular Bruno: This is him most matchdays. Sprinting randomly and misplacing simple passes. Create chances for the oppositon, maybe a couple for us. A couple dives and some moaning sprinkled in.

Nah.

2. Special Bruno: When the going gets tough , Bruno gets stuffed. Shirking out of challenges or just punting the ball at opponents. Complains to his teammates constantly and blames them when his edge of the box shot goes 20 yards over the bar. gives you that extra combination of petulance and weakness with just the right out of touchness. Think Darren Gibson but worse physically and mentally

LUL!

3.Liverpool Bruno: Getting hammered by your biggest rivals. Just give up on the team and the badge, Bent, Bowed, Broken Bruno.

Great category that.

 

[Valencia Shin Crosses]

All I'll say to those chance creation stats is look at Bournemouth at home.

Humbled 3-0, the team created nothing all day but what did the stats twats on Twitter say? He created 6 chances.

Internet stats mean nothing. The same happened when everyone lost their mind about Doku dribbling past Alexander Arnold 7 times in the first half of City/Liverpool.

Someone after the match posted a video of every time they faced off in that half. Doku beat him in a dribble cleanly once. 5 times he was forced to go down the outside, stop and either go backwards or pass it back.

Stop getting your knowledge from gimps on Twitter. Use your fecking eyes. Bruno is shit and the main reason we play chaos ball.

Also people need to understand that “chance created” can simply just be a pass leading to a shot. If you pass to Rashford on the wing and then he cuts inside and has a shot on target that counts as a “chance created” even if the pass was completely uncreative and simple.

 

[UnofficialDevil]

Also people need to understand that “chance created” can simply just be a pass leading to a shot. If you pass to Rashford on the wing and then he cuts inside and has a shot on target that counts as a “chance created” even if the pass was completely uncreative and simple.

Yeah, chances created is one of the most useless stats ever. Like you said, a side pass to Greenwood on the right wing who then takes one of those shots on goal from outside the penalty box. Chance created.
Assists and goals yes.

 

[Valencia Shin Crosses]

Yeah, chances created is one of the most useless stats ever. Like you said, a side pass to Greenwood on the right wing who then takes one of those shots on goal from outside the penalty box. Chance created.
Assists and goals yes.

Yeah BCC is better as those are basically the clear brilliant passes/crosses that should be scored which is why the numbers for those are so much lower.

But either way it’s why passing can be difficult to really quantify with stats as easily as defending or shooting can. xA can even be gamified a bit if your just passing to players that constantly blast shots at all times because it’ll accumulate.

 

[Rozay]

You and I don't get to pick anything

The point was when it comes to player sales, only few players can be sold and replaced every summer and hence club has to prioritize.
So which player needs to go first is a very valid discussion point on a fan forum without being accused of deflection and excuses.

So what happens if you can’t sell Sancho and VDB? Half of the players who ‘need to go first’ don’t even play and are inconsequential.

The question is whether Bruno should be replaced. I think there’s a large degree of yes or no to the question, and ‘yea but McTominay is worse’ is changing the subject just a little. In my humblest of opinions of course.

 

[Valencia Shin Crosses]

So what happens if you can’t sell Sancho and VDB? Half of the players who ‘need to go first’ don’t even play and are inconsequential.

The question is whether Bruno should be replaced. I think there’s a large degree of yes or no to the question, and ‘yea but McTominay is worse’ is changing the subject just a little. In my humblest of opinions of course.

Yeah this is sort of the thing many fans run into every summer. Everyone agrees that players like VDB are obvious outgoings that need to be scrapped, but all of that deadwood won’t fetch much in terms of fees because they clearly have 0 value to us so we don’t have the leverage to demand any sort of compensation.

The best clubs are able to sell players before the rest of the world realizes that the player is past it or not as valuable as perceived from the outside. Casemiro from Real being a perfect example. He was coming off a near MOTM performance in the UCL final and was the anchor for that legendary Madrid squad for years, but they recognized that they can replace him with someone younger for 0 cost basis even if he might have one more great year before truly declining (they were right as he was great for us majority of last season). It’s the same situation with us and Bruno now. Many believe he’s our best player still and in terms of statistical output he’s still quality, but this summer we could easily replace him for almost 0 money out of our own budget with a younger player that probably fits the squad better.

 

[NinjaZombie]

I don't think you can look at Bruno's Portugal performances and think he can replicate that with us. The difference in level between his Portugal team mates and their opponents are bigger than United and almost every other PL team.

 

[NZT-One]

I think the problem more than anything (from a Bruno point of view) is that he hasn't really enjoyed the luxury of being a part of a fully functioning team. Last season he only had Rashford and Casemiro (when he wasn't suspended) performing well around him. This season he's literally had no one bar Garnacho very occasionally. Mainoo and Højlund have stepped up recently and allowed Bruno to take more of a backseat role, but it's too little too late. Rashford is still a big problem and Casemiro has aged 10 years during his injury spell.

I see your point, but I consider him as one of the reasons for us being so dysfunctional (not simply because he is bad bla bla, but because the manager plays him (and the rest) the the way he does.)
Your argument can also be turned around because right now, Bruno might be one of the team mates which can be used for why Rashford is so off this season. So one badly performing player can give an alibi to the next badly performing player. As I said, I am not on the band wagon who wants to chase him out of the village but we have to play our cards right. Bruno is here for quite some time, he has been part of many dysfunctional teams and now we have to question ourselves, how far away are we from being one? And if it isn't really close, we should think about cashing in on him because as long as we have no functional team, he is what he is.

At the same time, I wouldn't be as optimistic as you are. As many have pointed out, even in a well oiled machine, there might be the chance of an upgrade. Brunos skillset is a little special because for the role he thrives in, he misses a few qualities like close control and dribbling that other players in those position have. Bruno might be better in different aspects than them but his standout qualities are his ability to quickly see and execute a pass. Add his injury record and fitness level and thats Bruno. Apart from that I don't consider him a standout anymore. He doesn't score enough anymore, his dead balls aren't great, his pressing attempts aren't well synchronized and for all the talk about his defensive shifts, I don't think he is really good there. He might be good for a 10ish player playing in the 10 area but for an 8, he is too weak. I think, in the last 8 weeks I've seen more and more players simply shrugging him off, outmuscling him.
So right now he seems like the lightweight 8 player with the great passes from time to time but because the rest of his skillset is not very complete, we are lacking in that areas of the pitch. Same applies to Eriksen. Same applies to McTominay (in terms of an incomplete skillset, obviously different strengths than Eriksen and Bruno). Add to that that Casemiro is losing his dynamism and Amrabat not really being up for it (it seems) and you have our midfield.

Keeping Bruno in the team means we have to adjust. The other two midfield players would have to be stronger types, defensively sound. That is why I thought the idea of Amrabat taking the Eriksen role from last season might be the way to go. Not as modern and forward thinking than I hoped but at least functional. ETH went for 2 high 8 instead, which is something, that doesn't seem to work with our players (at least with the injuries we had and have). We are a bit stuck in between the ideas it seems. And I think, we have to look forward and make sure to create the best team possible for in two years time. Bruno won't be in it so lets take the money, if somebody offers something.

Everyone else could honestly be sold as far as I'm concerned. But we need an actual squad (not to mention a starting eleven), so that's obviously not gonna happen.

I am also pretty triggerhappy so I can agree with your list. But we also have to keep in mind the list of the value of certain players. And Bruno sits relatively high on that list. Which, to me, tells me we have to cash in to get as much as possible.

 

[Valencia Shin Crosses]

I don't think you can look at Bruno's Portugal performances and think he can replicate that with us. The difference in level between his Portugal team mates and their opponents are bigger than United and almost every other PL team.

International football is also a completely different game and mitigates many issues especially for midfielders.

 

[Scandi Red]

@NZT-One I see your points and think they're fair, even if I don't agree with everything. I would also like to add that I don't think that Bruno is entirely unproblematic. He must certainly take some blame as he is a part of the team too. Particularly when it comes to his poor finishing, which can only be his own fault.

I am also pretty triggerhappy so I can agree with your list. But we also have to keep in mind the list of the value of certain players. And Bruno sits relatively high on that list. Which, to me, tells me we have to cash in to get as much as possible.

If we were like Real Madrid: sure, I wouldn't be opposed (even if I like Bruno). But we are so, so, sooo far away from that. To say that we're "missing a few steps" would be a serious understatement.

I am almost 100% sure that Bruno will be here next season, regardless of who the manager is. But especially if it's Ten Hag. I also feel fairly confident that he'll sign an extension and be here in the 2025-26 season too. I guess that also makes it a little easier for me to focus on the other players who we should consider selling.

 

[ForeverRed1]

This deflection thing is surely a but tired now. There are a section of posters who come into a thread on Bruno’s performances and their only response is ‘what about McTominay?’. Is there anyone here realistically advocating for Van de fecking Beek or Martial to get new deals or something? It’s not a race to the bottom, we are talking about Bruno. I’m sure if you go into the VDB or Rashford thread, you will also find that it isn’t filled with praise.

That’s fine and valid in a team that has maybe one or two issues. The problem we have is that we need to sell literally half our squad so it does come down to priorities and for me Bruno isn’t the biggest issue in this team.

If we want to compete though we need more depth and for Bruno to not be run into the ground so much. No reason he couldn’t be rested a little bit and come on to impact games from time to time? He’s one hell of a player when he’s on song and we know he’s got it in him.

For me the issue is the over reliance on him and the fact he doesn’t get played on form. He just plays game after game practically the full 90. A little genuine competition might be good for him (maybe that was the intention for Mount). But yeah, he wouldn’t be the priority for me.

 

[RedRocket9908]

In my opinion Bruno shouldnt be still starting for us on current form and probably wouldnt be getting a start for any other big 6 side, in recent games he has been ridulously wasteful on the ball with his decision making and long passes to no one plus his theatrics against Fulham the other day were embarrasing.

 

[Zehner]

119 chances is absolutely insane. Number that seems unbelievable even in a video game.

I think that statistic is a bit misleading. "Chances created" is essentially "shots taken" + "key passes". So if you take lots of shots and/or your team mates take lots of shots, this inflates the metric. I think in such cases, you should factor in the quality of the shots (expected goals) and key passes (expected assists). To illustrate that on the 22/23 season for the players in the Tweet plus Kevin de Bruyne (because he's the benchmark):

Player	Chances created	Expected goals created	Expected goals per chance created
Bruno Fernandes (23/24)	5.52	0.51	0.09
Bruno Fernandes (22/23)	5.67	0.54	0.10
Kevin de Bruyne	5.99	0.74	0.12
Martin Ödegaard	4.87	0.52	0.11
Bukayo Saka	4.55	0.48	0.11
Kieran Trippier	3.34	0.34	0.10

So in essence, Bruno makes up for a slightly lower chance quality with a higher frequency. In terms of raw output, he's on a similar level to Ödegaard and Saka but significantly behind de Bruyne.

 

[Rozay]

Apparently doubtful for tomorrow. I think he will play as he will surely want to if he can, he seems that type of character. Worth pointing out that if he doesn’t play though, an alternative midfield without any viable replacement is not the point people who want us to move on from him have been advocating. I’m sure nobody wants an Amrabat, Mainoo, McTominay midfield instead.

 

[hobbers]

He'll play just so he can get himself banned for the City game.

 

[Gabriel Djemba-Bebe]

That really fecking annoyed me. He's the captain and therefore should be operating to a different standard but is behaving like this. Absolutely pathetic.

Calm down. He wasn't faking that injury. After this passage of play, he was hobbling about for the rest of the game, and it now looks like he may miss the Forest game as a result.

 

[Gabriel Djemba-Bebe]

He'll play just so he can get himself banned for the City game.

Not this conspiracy theory again. He's currently on 8 domestic cards, so how would that work? He'd have to get himself sent off tomorrow.

 

[Scandi Red]

He'll play just so he can get himself banned for the City game.

I expected no less from this thread

 

[Remember the geese]

Would be good to see Amad play in his place.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

That really fecking annoyed me. He's the captain and therefore should be operating to a different standard but is behaving like this. Absolutely pathetic.

These aged well…

 

[Gabriel Djemba-Bebe]

These aged well…

I was at the game and saw him limping and grimacing a few minutes after the challenge, so it was pretty obvious he wasn't faking it. This thread never fails to surprise me though. Any chance to jump on his back - people will take it.

 

[Jeppers7]

These aged well…

You obviously missed the part where he was in so much pain he got up and ran when he had another chance to shoot.

 

[UnofficialDevil]

These aged well…

Please don't tell me you actually believe he got injured from that dive.

 

[BorisManUtd]

https://www.transfermarkt.com/bruno-fernandes/verletzungen/spieler/240306

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Please don't tell me you actually believe he got injured from that dive.

“dive”

You know the point of a dive is to pretend you’ve been fouled? Nobody ever hit the deck pretending they hurt themself kicking the ball.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Also. Watch the clip slowed down. The way he jars his left knee is extremely obvious. You can actually see it lock out.

But hey, why not side with some absolute gobshite rival fan on Twitter who thinks they can score points by slagging off our players. That’s the way we roll these days, right?

 

[Lyng]

Also. Watch the clip slowed down. The way he jars his left knee is extremely obvious. You can actually see it lock out.

But hey, why not side with some absolute gobshite rival fan on Twitter who thinks they can score points by slagging off our players. That’s the way we roll these days, right?

To be fair he does throw up his arm and call for a foul though.

 

[Scandi Red]

To be fair he does throw up his arm and call for a foul though.

 

[Vault Dweller]

Calm down. He wasn't faking that injury. After this passage of play, he was hobbling about for the rest of the game, and it now looks like he may miss the Forest game as a result.

These aged well…

He literally leaps to his feet and demands the ball, while running forward after trying to win a foul.

He's potentially injured, and I only saw the clip in question. So maybe that did injure him and my post didn't age well. But the leaping to his feet and demanding the ball certainly didn't look good. Especially when he has done it many times before.

 

[VP89]

He literally leaps to his feet and demands the ball, while running forward after trying to win a foul.

He's potentially injured, and I only saw the clip in question. So maybe that did injure him and my post didn't age well. But the leaping to his feet and demanding the ball certainly didn't look good. Especially when he has done it many times before.

He was definitely looking hurt , to me he leapt up because he felt he could at least take a pot shot from a good position.

 

[Vault Dweller]

He was definitely looking hurt , to me he leapt up because he felt he could at least take a pot shot from a good position.

Fair enough if he was and I'll acknowledge that, and probably shouldn't form opinions on a 10 second clip, but that part did really annoy me as it is something I have seen him do countless times.

 

[VP89]

Fair enough if he was and I'll acknowledge that, and probably shouldn't form opinions on a 10 second clip, but that part did really annoy me as it is something I have seen him do countless times.

If it helps I think he was labouring around straight after the shot

 

[Vault Dweller]

If it helps I think he was labouring around straight after the shot

That's why it should be a longer clip! Then I wouldn't rush to judgement

 

[Marwood]

“dive”

You know the point of a dive is to pretend you’ve been fouled? Nobody ever hit the deck pretending they hurt themself kicking the ball.

He is appealing to the ref it seems as he falls(dramatically).

 

[Pogue Mahone]

He is appealing to the ref it seems as he falls(dramatically).

He’s doing that thing injured players do when they call for the physios.

 

[Jeppers7]

Players who legitimately go down like that, are not capable of jumping up ten seconds later demanding the ball and running towards it because there is a chance they might get a shot at goal. The reason Bruno went down in the manner he did is because he was trying to win a free kick on the edge of the box which he would have got up and taken if awarded. When not awarded his first thought as usual was to make a scene on the floor, rather than help his team to attack and score a crucial goal….until he saw he might get a chance to shoot and then the miracle happened, again as evidenced plenty of times before.

Ironically it’s the same two apologist fan boys who are using the fact he’s a doubt as a direct correlation to his actions in this clip. Meanwhile Shaw played until subbed and is out for the season. He plays for the team rather than himself.

 

[Gabriel Djemba-Bebe]

Players who legitimately go down like that, are not capable of jumping up ten seconds later demanding the ball and running towards it because there is a chance they might get a shot at goal. The reason Bruno went down in the manner he did is because he was trying to win a free kick on the edge of the box which he would have got up and taken if awarded. When not awarded his first thought as usual was to make a scene on the floor, rather than help his team to attack and score a crucial goal….until he saw he might get a chance to shoot and then the miracle happened, again as evidenced plenty of times before.

Ironically it’s the same two apologist fan boys who are using the fact he’s a doubt as a direct correlation to his actions in this clip. Meanwhile Shaw played until subbed and is out for the season. He plays for the team rather than himself.

Aren't you a season ticket holder? Could you not see him hobbling about for the remainder of the game after that challenge? People who are only judging off a 10 second clip are susceptible to falling into 'look at Bruno playacting' trap, but assuming you went to the game and don't sit too far away from the action, I find it mad that you've still come to that conclusion. It appears that you're so committed to hating United's captain that you can't see the wood for the trees.

 

[Scandi Red]

The last few pages clearly show who's played football (or any "high risk" sport really) as an adult and who hasn't. It is very possible to scream in pain and be "out" for a few seconds (or even minutes) and still be able to move quickly shortly after. When your body is warm, which it typically is when playing sports, you often just feel the initial jolt of pain. It's not until after the game when your body cools down that you realise how you fecked up.

Sincerely, an idiot who just went through surgery because he kept going after an injury that should have been clear