[zaafi]

. All Mount did was pass the ball back quickly. You think Bruno can’t do that? There are different standards players set for themselves on the pitch, Casemiro constantly tries to create from the deep and catches opposition off guard. Bruno does the same as well. Yes Casemiro and Bruno make plenty of mistakes but if they started playing like Mount we won’t score goals in a million years.

The reason Bruno tries those Hollywood passes stems from the frustration of creating absolutely nothing. Our wide players were nullified, Hojlund can’t do anything upfront. Mount and Amrabat just happy to recycle possession. Imagine if Casemiro and Bruno happily recycled possession as well. Who the feck is going create chances?

Mount had a decent game yesterday but let’s not make a mountain out of a mole.

First of all, he didn't just pass the ball quickly. He passed the ball forward with quick one-touch passing, something that almost none of our players are able to do. This creates a lot of space because he moves the ball forward as opposition players are running forward to press him. This is something Bruno can't do, for instance. Secondly, what you refer to as "recycling possession" is called link-up and building up attacks. You know, what we did against Crystal Palace in the midweek that ensured our biggest win of the season without both Bruno and Rashford.

It is one thing that you prefer the "moments" style kind of football, but it's not for everyone, and that kind of football is not what the best teams play.

If you think Mount can't create chances, you're in for a surprise. During his last 2 seasons (before their chaotic season in 22/23), Mount was ranked 5th in the PL for chances created over the course of two seasons, only beaten by Bruno, De Bruyne, Son and TAA. It seems you don't think a player can recycle possession, and create at the same time. Creating as a team is far more optimal than chances being created by one player, anyway, as you may have seen it hasn't worked out so well for us over the last years.

"Bruno has more of an engine than Mount". What kind of absolute nonsense is this? Mount is much faster, stronger, tackles better and presses much more than Bruno. He made 7 tackles yesterday ffs, which I think is more than any player in the PL have made during a match this season.

 

[TsuWave]

 

[Lyng]

Thats....extremely worrying

 

[zaafi]

This isn't surprising at all. Bruno doesn't have Rashford running behind the defense in acres of space as they play a high defensive line, so he's struggling to create for our striker.

 

[fezzerUTD]

Take your post of the day award.

Who gets the post of the day award for today after another sh it show from our best player?

 

[UnofficialDevil]

Who gets the post of the day award for today after another sh it show from our best player?

Man's post of the day was actually comparing him to Cantona. It wasn't even worth replying to.

 

[UnofficialDevil]

There you go. He's got one job..

 

[RedStarUnited]

I made a thread that asking if Brunos left in the summer wether his United career is any better than Pogba, it got locked. A general theme around negative Bruno threads on this forum, the mods love him and can’t stand any criticism aimed at him.

I stand by it, they are both flops to me. Bruno might do it more against shit teams but Pogba had some great games/moments in big games that Bruno never had.

 

[redIndianDevil]

First of all, he didn't just pass the ball quickly. He passed the ball forward with quick one-touch passing, something that almost none of our players are able to do. This creates a lot of space because he moves the ball forward as opposition players are running forward to press him. This is something Bruno can't do, for instance. Secondly, what you refer to as "recycling possession" is called link-up and building up attacks. You know, what we did against Crystal Palace in the midweek that ensured our biggest win of the season without both Bruno and Rashford.

It is one thing that you prefer the "moments" style kind of football, but it's not for everyone, and that kind of football is not what the best teams play.

If you think Mount can't create chances, you're in for a surprise. During his last 2 seasons (before their chaotic season in 22/23), Mount was ranked 5th in the PL for chances created over the course of two seasons, only beaten by Bruno, De Bruyne, Son and TAA. It seems you don't think a player can recycle possession, and create at the same time. Creating as a team is far more optimal than chances being created by one player, anyway, as you may have seen it hasn't worked out so well for us over the last years.

"Bruno has more of an engine than Mount". What kind of absolute nonsense is this? Mount is much faster, stronger, tackles better and presses much more than Bruno. He made 7 tackles yesterday ffs, which I think is more than any player in the PL have made during a match this season.

You are the one who is confused about link up play. Just because Mount passed quickly in one touch and moved doesn’t mean he created shit. Like I said already Bruno can do that in his sleep. But what did Mount “link up” created all game? Nothing. Our entire playing 11 doesn’t move properly, even Mount after his one touch back or sideways pass went nowhere, because there was no space. Recycling possession is just that recycling the ball back and forth which Mount is an expert at.

Bruno had a bad game yesterday, I agree with that but if he wanted to be safe and under the radar like Mount he can easily choose to be. But we will never score in a million years.

No one prefers our style of football, we all know the problems in our team but the problem is on the whole. Just removing Bruno won’t fix us magically. Take Bruno and Rashford out of our team and we are finishing 10th this season for sure.

I’ve had enough of discussing Mount’s stats with you. Nobody gives a feck about what he did for others. What he does for us is the only thing that matters. He created absolutely feck all with his “link up” play. There is nothing to be proud about his 7 tackles against a team who had zero intentions of attacking or even getting out of their box after their goal.

 

[Idxomer]

Not surprising as I still haven't seen Hojlund getting the ball from him apart from set pieces.

 

[zaafi]

You are the one who is confused about link up play. Just because Mount passed quickly in one touch and moved doesn’t mean he created shit. Like I said already Bruno can do that in his sleep. But what did Mount “link up” created all game? Nothing. Our entire playing 11 doesn’t move properly, even Mount after his one touch back or sideways pass went nowhere, because there was no space. Recycling possession is just that recycling the ball back and forth which Mount is an expert at.

Bruno had a bad game yesterday, I agree with that but if he wanted to be safe and under the radar like Mount he can easily choose to be. But we will never score in a million years.

No one prefers our style of football, we all know the problems in our team but the problem is on the whole. Just removing Bruno won’t fix us magically. Take Bruno and Rashford out of our team and we are finishing 10th this season for sure.

I’ve had enough of discussing Mount’s stats with you. Nobody gives a feck about what he did for others. What he does for us is the only thing that matters. He created absolutely feck all with his “link up” play. There is nothing to be proud about his 7 tackles against a team who had zero intentions of attacking or even getting out of their box after their goal.

I'm not saying he created chances (although he did actually have 1 key pass as deeper midfielder, and Bruno had 3 as the attacking one), I'm saying that he opened the space for his team mates to do it, but instead of building on the momentum and grabbing the opportunity, they decided to wait for the Crystal Palace players to get back into defensive positioning. I don't think you quite understand what Mount brings to the game in general when you claim that "Bruno can do that in his sleep". But he can't. He literally can't do that consistently, which is one of the reasons we even bought Mount in the first place.
He brings something that none of our midfielders can do. Being able to receive the ball with your back to opponent's goal and yet bring the ball forward with a touch is an extremely valuable quality to have in your team. He has a good sense of exploiting space with quick touches and passes to keep the flow of the game. Eventually, it will open space and that's how you build attacks as a team. I refuse to believe you are this blind, when you were literally at the stadium and couldn't see what he brings. Team play is not about what Mount necessarily creates himself, but rather his decisions that allow chances to be made in the first place. In the second half, he also made a brilliant tackle close to their corner flag, and he gave the ball to Garnacho who then created a chance.

The fact that you only look at "but what did he create?!" says it all, really. I don't think you appreciate qualities other than what is very clear for the naked eye to see. Either that, or you don't have a good understanding of team play or tactical set-ups.

Edit: The bolded part is absolutely laughable. You're admitting that Bruno is an awful midfielder if he can't both create chances and play it "safe and under the radar". Why does everything have to be low-chance, hollywood balls? You're indirectly saying that's the only way he can create chances.

 

[Marwood]

Erm, yes they were. I don't think you're actually lying. You just haven't seen them, but it's an easy search.

I'm not sure who "they" are but you can find a handful of posters here who think anything. I could probably find a few who think the earth is flat. That's not a group opinion.

But saying the "general fan" thinks Bruno is comparable to Scholes or Cantona is miles off. If you asked everyone at a match day I think you'd struggle to find anyone.

Do you think the Old Trafford crowd will still be singing Bruno songs in 25 years like they have Cantona?

 

[redIndianDevil]

I'm not saying he created chances (although he did actually have 1 key pass as deeper midfielder, and Bruno had 3 as the attacking one), I'm saying that he opened the space for his team mates to do it, but instead of building on the momentum and grabbing the opportunity, they decided to wait for the Crystal Palace players to get back into defensive positioning. I don't think you quite understand what Mount brings to the game in general when you claim that "Bruno can do that in his sleep". But he can't. He literally can't do that consistently, which is one of the reasons we even bought Mount in the first place.
He brings something that none of our midfielders can do. Being able to receive the ball with your back to opponent's goal and yet bring the ball forward with a touch is an extremely valuable quality to have in your team. He has a good sense of exploiting space with quick touches and passes to keep the flow of the game. Eventually, it will open space and that's how you build attacks as a team. I refuse to believe you are this blind, when you were literally at the stadium and couldn't see what he brings. Team play is not about what Mount necessarily creates himself, but rather his decisions that allow chances to be made in the first place. In the second half, he also made a brilliant tackle close to their corner flag, and he gave the ball to Garnacho who then created a chance.

The fact that you only look at "but what did he create?!" says it all, really. I don't think you appreciate qualities other than what is very clear for the naked eye to see. Either that, or you don't have a good understanding of team play or tactical set-ups.

Clearly you didn’t watch the game. Mount was not playing deep at all, he was playing next to Rashford most of the first half. It was Amrabt and Casemiro who dropped deep most of the time and by the way there was no deeper midfielder or attacking midfielder against Palace. They sat so deep and offered very little threat that everyone in our team was in attacking position.

He did no such as exploiting space or anything, he just occupied space, received the ball, passed it back to a teammate, that’s it. That just recycling possession, you think Rashford can’t receive the ball and or do a quick one touch passing to a free man and move on? Bruno can’t do that ? All Mount could do yesterday was receive the ball with his back to the goal because Palace packed so deep and gave no space. What we needed more yesterday was players like Bruno, Rashford taking on players and creating chances.

 

[Idxomer]

Clearly you didn’t watch the game. Mount was not playing deep at all, he was playing next to Rashford most of the first half. It was Amrabt and Casemiro who dropped deep most of the time and by the way there was no deeper midfielder or attacking midfielder against Palace. They sat so deep and offered very little threat that everyone in our team was in attacking position.

He did no such as exploiting space or anything, he just occupied space, received the ball, passed it back to a teammate, that’s it. That just recycling possession, you think Rashford can’t receive the ball and or do a quick one touch passing to a free man and move on? Bruno can’t do that ? All Mount could do yesterday was receive the ball with his back to the goal because Palace packed so deep and gave no space. What we needed more yesterday was players like Bruno, Rashford taking on players and creating chances.

Mount had the most shot-creating actions in the game.

 

[Red71]

He would never play for Barcelona, Bayern München, City or Real Madrid, and there are so many reasons for that. There are a few that are fooling themselves, because they look at Bruno's chance creation numbers and think "Wow, he created more than De Bruyne, so of course he could take his spot!" without considering all the other immense qualities that De Bruyne bring to the pitch and to the team. What irritates me most about him is his reluctance to actually change his style of playing. It is as if he puts himself first; as long as he tops the statistics and is acclaimed one of the best creative midfielders that has played in the league, not much else matters. It probably isn't what he is thinking, but it sure seems like it with how he plays. He just can't help himself, and instead of cooling things down and try to build up an attack or link up with his team mates, he has to try some random long pass that has between 0.5 - 5% chance of succeeding.

I agree with what you’re saying in this thread generally and your comment about Hannibal vs Crystal Palace in midweek specifically. I’m not convinced we get such an easy ride in that game without Hannibal, Gore and Garnacho linking with Mount (& I wasn’t really keen on Mount signing…).

The question for me is if Zaafi on Red Cafe can see it’s not working (& there’s no disrespect intended there), why can’t our experienced gaffer? It’s baffling! I have been moaning for a good season or more about how easily Bruno coughs up cheap possession and often puts us under unnecessary pressure but why can’t ETH see that and deal with it? I think Bruno’s probably a good lad and he “gets” the club but in my view, he’s just not consistent enough to put us back where we used to be.

The fact ETH made him captain was a terrible decision and just compounds matters. He’s made a massive rod for his own back. Either he can see what a lot of us see but was still prepared to put himself in another Maguire situation anyway knowing the media will be all over him if Bruno is dropped or he actually can’t see what we all see which is an even bigger concern for me…

 

[zaafi]

Clearly you didn’t watch the game. Mount was not playing deep at all, he was playing next to Rashford most of the first half. It was Amrabt and Casemiro who dropped deep most of the time and by the way there was no deeper midfielder or attacking midfielder against Palace. They sat so deep and offered very little threat that everyone in our team was in attacking position.

He did no such as exploiting space or anything, he just occupied space, received the ball, passed it back to a teammate, that’s it. That just recycling possession, you think Rashford can’t receive the ball and or do a quick one touch passing to a free man and move on? Bruno can’t do that ? All Mount could do yesterday was receive the ball with his back to the goal because Palace packed so deep and gave no space. What we needed more yesterday was players like Bruno, Rashford taking on players and creating chances.

For feck's sake Yeah, give us more of the same players that are the reasons we can't play together like a team or string more than three passes at a time! That will surely do it, mate!

They were literally the reason we couldn't win yesterday. No composure in the final third whatsoever.

 

[Yagami]

I'm not sure who "they" are but you can find a handful of posters here who think anything. I could probably find a few who think the earth is flat. That's not a group opinion.

But saying the "general fan" thinks Bruno is comparable to Scholes or Cantona is miles off. If you asked everyone at a match day I think you'd struggle to find anyone.

Do you think the Old Trafford crowd will still be singing Bruno songs in 25 years like they have Cantona?

I live in Manchester and the way in which you hear Bruno being talked about here despite everything, yes. The last time I saw a player have this much support here was probably Rooney who at least had performances and accolades to warrant such.

 

[Marwood]

For feck's sake Yeah, give us more of the same players that are the reasons we can't play together like a team or string more than three passes at a time! That will surely do it, mate!

They were literally the reason we couldn't win yesterday. No composure in the final third whatsoever.

But you said you don't want Bruno replaced by anyone in the current squad.

You wanted him on the pitch yesterday right?

Just to clarify, I don't want him benched for another player of ours. I want him replaced with a better player that will enhance our general play.

 

[zaafi]

But you said you don't want Bruno replaced by anyone in the current squad.

You wanted him on the pitch yesterday right?

I wanted him to play on the right side where his weaknesses aren't as exposed as they are in the middle, as where he doesn't see the ball as much. I think we would be much better off with him there, as it would make it more difficult for him to create chances from right, and so he'd be force to pass it more and link-up. His off-the-ball movement is actually quite decent as well, so I imagine he'd find space to come into the box from the right side on several occasions. What doesn't work is having him and Mount in the middle, where one is looking to build attacks and link-up, and the other one the exact opposite. It's unbelievable why Ten Hag persists with it.

This would also allow us to play Mejbri from the start who is a bit similar to Mount in how they want to play. It was an odd decision by Ten Hag to change a winning team who played beautiful football, even if it was a slightly weakened Crystal Palace team during the midweek.

 

[Jeffthered]

I'll keep saying it: Bruno needs to play from the right. He is both intelligent and experienced enough to play there, in his way.

There is a wider problem though, as I can't see Bruno as undroppable.

 

[Gabriel Djemba-Bebe]

 

[crossy1686]

Not surprising as I still haven't seen Hojlund getting the ball from him apart from set pieces.

Yeah but doesn’t Bruno play behind him? It’s hard to play someone into space with a straight pass and much easier to play a wide player in with the inside or outside of your boot.

I think the whole point of Hojlund is to create space for the wide players so they can get closer to goal and craft a chance for him.

 

[DWelbz19]

Bruno Fernandes is an extremely one dimensional player. I think he has actually regressed since he first joined.

 

[Greck]

The celebrating of assist stats after bad performances and team loss is approaching meme territory. It's almost like winning a cup it seems.

 

[Gabriel Djemba-Bebe]

The celebrating of assist stats after bad performances and team loss is approaching meme territory. It's almost like winning a cup it seems.

Who's celebrating? It's just worth pointing out to demonstrate his effectiveness.

 

[Redstain]

The celebrating of assist stats after bad performances and team loss is approaching meme territory. It's almost like winning a cup it seems.

Also lacks objectivity to get a better picture overall how about the stats to show how many times they have lost possession or the succession of passes completed.

 

[RuudTom83]

They need a few more games together...the whole team hasn't played with an actual CF for so long.

Old habits die hard...lets hope it improves and quickly.

 

[Jeppers7]

The celebrating of assist stats after bad performances and team loss is approaching meme territory. It's almost like winning a cup it seems.

It’s not even assist stats. They are pretty mediocre but everyone else is to blame for that. No….it’s chances created stats!

 

[Zoo]

Love Bruno but this was another shocker tonight.

 

[Idxomer]

No clue how anyone rates him highly. The man has done the biggest con job on this fanbase convincing them he's world-class.

 

[Marwood]

Terrible game. Not just loose with the ball but a meek, timid sort of performance as well.

 

[klayton88]

One of the biggest liabilities in this team. No amount of stats will change my mind. Won't win anything with him in the team.

 

[Based Adnan]

Been completely turd all season but is seemingly undroppable and unsubbable

Hopefully our manager can show some bottle this weekend

 

[sullydnl]

Don't generally agree with the more vehement criticism of him, but he was awful today.

 

[zaafi]

Shockingly bad. How do people rate him so highly?

 

[GMoore23]

I hope this is his last season. Never rated him and he's an insufferable cnut to boot.

 

[James_42]

The moment he blasted it over with an awful shot attempt, then moaned at another player sums him up.

 

[TsuWave]

Awful player, just awful

 

[Sanchez7]

Just when you thought you couldn't have a worse captain than Maguire. Brainless footballer and constantly moaning.

 

[Lyng]

He cannot start the next game after this. Awful.