I don't think there's any reason to believe that Ten Hag is married to the idea of playing with a 10. Surely if it was just a matter of a lack of a proper 10 the team shape would be tweaked for some other role in similar spaces.
8
Season Average Rating
- Appearances
- 59
- Goals
- 14
- Assists
- 14
- Yellow cards
- 12
- Status
It's actually quite simple, on the rare occasion Bruno doesn't play, we're shite and devoid of any attacking threat, so much so that he always comes on as sub to change it, that's all we need to know to see how important he is
But... but his pass completion stats aren't as high as Odegaard's, therefore he must be shit.
Yeah well if you've seen my posts in the CAF you'll know what I think about stats in general
Eriksen would be next best in that role when fit again
Odegaard has same number of assists in the league as Bruno...but Bruno didn't take all the dead balls, Eriksen had quite a few before his injury thus Eriksen has a strong assist numbers.
But Bruno also has a high amount of assists unrealized because outside of Marcus, nobody has been able to score at even a decent clip as a forward player. Arsenal have 25 league goals between Saka and Martinelli, and 5 from Jesus. That's 30 for those counting at home and then Odegaard has chipped in 10 goals. So between those 4 players, that's 40 goals.
Bruno (5), Martial/Weghorst (3), Antony/Sancho (7), Marcus (14)...that adds up to 29 from 6 players.
Long story short, Bruno is not a glaring issue. Issue has always been a reliable and above average center forward/striker to share the goal scoring burden with Marcus. To supplement his 14 league goals with at least 10 by now...United would be much, much closer to Arsenal if not ahead of City. But alas, this is where United are.
Shit, if United had Cavani from his first year with United under EtH's first season, United would be in much, much better shape.
But Bruno also has a high amount of assists unrealized because outside of Marcus, nobody has been able to score at even a decent clip as a forward player. Arsenal have 25 league goals between Saka and Martinelli, and 5 from Jesus. That's 30 for those counting at home and then Odegaard has chipped in 10 goals. So between those 4 players, that's 40 goals.
Bruno (5), Martial/Weghorst (3), Antony/Sancho (7), Marcus (14)...that adds up to 29 from 6 players.
Long story short, Bruno is not a glaring issue. Issue has always been a reliable and above average center forward/striker to share the goal scoring burden with Marcus. To supplement his 14 league goals with at least 10 by now...United would be much, much closer to Arsenal if not ahead of City. But alas, this is where United are.
Shit, if United had Cavani from his first year with United under EtH's first season, United would be in much, much better shape.
What the feck?
I "salivate" over these two players about as much as you salivate over Bruno. I use them as an example because they play in the same position as Bruno, and there are not really that many 10s in Premier League these days. I also mention Ødegaard in my posts, so I must be an Arsenal fan. Am I doing it right?Not once have you criticised Bruno, and I honestly don't understand fans who can never criticise certain players just because they play for us. Yes, he gives 100% every time, but so does Fred, and he was a laughing stock a while back to some fans. Why can't you just accept that I don't think he's good enough to compete with the best teams without accusing me of supporting other teams?
Besides, I don't constantly criticise him. Just less than a month ago I praised him by commenting that it was a world class performance and hoping he would continue like that, but unfortunately he hasn't performed that way since.
And why I would much rather City win the title than Arsenal is simple. City winning the title doesn't bother me compared to Arsenal. City's success is fake, boring and it's bought with oil money. I don't know any City fans at all, but I know a lot of Arsenal fans that would go on about this forever. No one cares if City win the league. It's in the news for a day and then it's forgotten. Arsenal are our real rivals from back in the day. Arsenal and Arteta winning would be nauseating. I haven't seen many posters here that would prefer Arsenal to win it than City, and I think it's strange you do.
It still amazes me how some of you fail to understand the criticism he receives and give off the impression that he's deserving of none.
There are some posters who admit that Bruno's style is a bit erratic but they are happy with it due to the output he produces. That's perfectly fine because at least there's an acknowledgement of issues. The posters who shut down any criticism in a condescending manner or trot out the lazy "same pass completion %" are just tiresome.
The Bruno criticism comes from years of watching him play. Martinez, Casemiro and now Rashford have as close to unanimous praise as you can have on the caf and Rashford is someone that was just as divisive as Bruno once upon a time. My point is Bruno's flaws are extremely obvious to anyone who's being objective as are his strengths. Its just as foolish to downplay his creativity as it is to downplay that his erratic play affects the ball circulation of the team.
There are some posters who admit that Bruno's style is a bit erratic but they are happy with it due to the output he produces. That's perfectly fine because at least there's an acknowledgement of issues. The posters who shut down any criticism in a condescending manner or trot out the lazy "same pass completion %" are just tiresome.
The Bruno criticism comes from years of watching him play. Martinez, Casemiro and now Rashford have as close to unanimous praise as you can have on the caf and Rashford is someone that was just as divisive as Bruno once upon a time. My point is Bruno's flaws are extremely obvious to anyone who's being objective as are his strengths. Its just as foolish to downplay his creativity as it is to downplay that his erratic play affects the ball circulation of the team.
Bruno has undoubtedly been one of our best post-Fergie signings (definitely top 5), whereas Fred doesn't make our top 10, so I don't think it's fair to attribute the same amount of criticism for both players. Bruno contributes a hell of a lot more to the team than just "giving 100%", as Ten Hag has highlighted in multiple interviews.
I grew up watching Arsenal and United fight it out for league titles but there's never been the same level of hatred and rivalry as there is between us and City, even when they were in Division 2 in the late 90s. The hatred between the two sets of fans is palpable in a Manchester derby (Arsenal vs United games are nowhere near as intense). The thought of them lot down the road winning 3 in a row is far more of a grim prospect than Arsenal winning the league.
This 100%
It's incredulous to me that people can't see his faults. He's got tremendous abilities and he knows it, to a fault.
We were linked with him in the summer of 2019 and the Daily Mail and ESPN both reported at the same time that he scouts rejected him because:
Watching him play vindicates the initial scout reports. That first half against Fulham was atrocious. 16 completed passes and 18 possessions lost. It's the kind of performance a lot of us have come to expect as they're interspersed between his good performances. He's absolutely capable of having 10/10 performances which I can acknowledge but whenever he puts in a terrible performance some other player or the whole rest of the team usually gets scapegoated for it. The worst is that he can pop up with a goal or an assist and people then put it down as a good performance. Atletico Madrid away last season was a prime example of that as he set up Elanga. "That's why you keep Bruno on the pitch", as if Bruno wasn't having a mare for the other 90 minutes.
Of course when you mention how much he loses the ball you get replies about how KdB loses possession (marginally) more, ignoring the context that his team also create a lot more chances and are usually camped in the opponent's half where there's a lot more potential for plausible chance opportunities, whereas we struggle to hold onto the ball past our own halfway line in large part because Bruno is playing implausible hero balls as soon as he get it.
Hugely talented but flawed player who hasn't necessarily added as many goals to our team as his 111 goal and assist contributions since his arrival might suggest.
United's goal tallies in recent PL seasons:
17/18: 68
18/19 65
19/20: 66 (signed Bruno halfway through)
20/21: 73
21/22: 57
22/23: on course for 59
I'm not saying we're not currently hugely reliant on Bruno. I'm just saying that it's easy to envisage someone who gets half the goal contributions but makes us tick in the middle of the park in a way Bruno can't. From my perspective, people bigging up Weghorst's link up play was as much an indirect criticism of Bruno's inability to do it rather than Weghorst being in any way exceptional at it
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Goes both ways considering the amount of shit that's posted criticizing the player.
Criticism is a rather ingenuous term to describe what most of his haters post here.
Exactly, posting so much nonsense and passing that off as "criticism" is weird, people have gone down few levels to post some weird shit Twitter accounts.
I’m astonished that you’re astonished. Bruno concurrently producing great numbers and being erratic with his general play is nothing new and doesn’t have anything to do with this seasons hectic schedule. He was like this last season too with lesser end product I believe. He’s been here for 3-4 years now and I think it’s only fair for people to comment on a glaring weakness which is an active hinderance to becoming the team we need to be to win big trophies. While he may become less loose on the ball when supported by a better team, it’s only fair that fans are concerned about that not happening because he’s our talisman. If McTominay is a shit passer it’s fine - you sell him and life moves on. If one of the two players you are built around in attack (Rashford and Bruno) is sloppy with his passing and constantly giving the ball away it is a bigger cause for concern.
He’s still a fantastic player - no two ways about it. But DDG is the best player of the post SAF era and people want him out and there’s little talk about respect as he doesn’t suit the team we need to be. Bruno isn’t as extreme a case as DDGs inability to pass since Bruno has had many performances where his passing is assured and reliable (see Betis at home) but if we’re relying on him we need to push him to be that player. If ETH has this ‘okay give the ball away lots I’m sure you’ll get an assist” attitude we are never catching City / Arsenal.
In my opinion Bruno is the same "type" of player as Ronaldo or Messi. If we use him we have to base our whole attacking plan through him, just like with Ronaldo/Messi.
It's up to ETH to figure out if he's worth doing so. I personally don't think so. He need to be an absolute world class player for us to structure our team around him and in my opinion he's just not. In the past, there are very few players we build our attacking plan around like RVN, Ronaldo, RVP and they are all among the best in the world. I really like Bruno so I hope I am wrong.
Still, he's obviously a very good player and contribute a lot to us, and the excessive criticism he receives online is unwarranted.
It's up to ETH to figure out if he's worth doing so. I personally don't think so. He need to be an absolute world class player for us to structure our team around him and in my opinion he's just not. In the past, there are very few players we build our attacking plan around like RVN, Ronaldo, RVP and they are all among the best in the world. I really like Bruno so I hope I am wrong.
Still, he's obviously a very good player and contribute a lot to us, and the excessive criticism he receives online is unwarranted.
Absolutely not. Next year we will piss the league not them. You hear it first here.
Back to the subject of this thread people keep comparing Bruno, KDB and Odegaard but imo they're different types of player. KDB and Odegaard are more of a creative playmaker while Bruno is more of a classic hole player. This season Bruno has been used mainly as a creative playmaker imo he's been doing pretty well in this role but I don't think it's his best role. He's a fantastic finisher and his timing in his runs is absolutely top.
Imo in an ideal world we could sign a top CM next summer who is capable of creating while could make the midfield solid playing next to Casemiro. Eriksen is very creative but he's not solid enough imo. Someone like Kroos. Then we could move him to his #10 role where he's so deadly instead of playing WW there now.
Then of course a top #9 to finish the chances he creates. I swear we could have a very long clip of the assists he should have had but could not because our forwards couldn't finish.
I meant to say "unobtainable" to be fair
I think this is where I differ in opinion to most, I think think the lad is world class at what he does. Just don’t like his game and how it’s honed. So it doesn’t take much for me to pick faults in all his performances.
He won’t be the first for me, never liked Beckham because he hardly played for us in the position (cm)I preferred seeing him. I don’t like him in his perceived best position due to shortcomings I’ve learn to live with because every player has one. Just down to the manager to get a net +ve out of them and Bruno has been a net +ve.
I'm not a native English speaker but 'unobtainable' means that could not be obtained right?
Bruno did play quite safe in the past for example against Spurs, one of his best cameos as a CM I think. The match was so good I got to watch it twice and if my memory serves me right he had like 9x % pass completion and he was basically our brain that match. So this is quite obtainable I think.
Edit: I read your previous post again and got it now. Cheers mate
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No worries. I often forget words.I'm not a native English speaker but 'unobtainable' means that could not be obtained right?
Bruno did play quite safe in the past for example against Spurs, one of his best cameos as a CM I think. The match was so good I got to watch it twice and if my memory serves me right he had like 9x % pass completion and he was basically our brain that match. So this is quite obtainable I think.
Edit: I read your previous post again and got it now. Cheers mate
I really believe the balance between being sound on the ball and creative can be found but not sure he wants to bother with it, considering his age and how he is still asked to be the same player anyway
I really don't think this is something anyone here would argue about. Bruno output has been really really good this season, however you look at it. He will get even better with a proper striker, no doubt about that.
True. There's a funny thread about not winning the league with Bruno in the team, but we will probably never control games and possession with Bruno in the team. That's just the kind of player he is. I also don't think it makes sense to make him play in a way that doesn't suit his strengths. Therefore it will be a question how to set up a team without Bruno rather than mould him into another type of player.
17 g&a in 30 games if you remove the 10 games Ronaldo was playing for us because that made Bruno Fernándes clearly shit.
And if our forwards are a bit better it'd be like 30 GA I think. There were matches he should have had like 3-4 assists in a single match but our forwards just couldn't finish so he had none. Next year when we have a proper #9 it'd be much better I think.
The rhyming dysphemism isn't infered from the quote you used to create it. There are so many variables at play in football. Bruno's style of play means defenders have to be constantly switched on, it creates the potential for turnovers in offensive situations etc..... The fact that ETH has made him de-facto captain and is extremely reluctant to not play him suggests he's doing exactly what is asked of him. Maybe it's a cultural thing but I can't get my head around the way our own fans slag off our players. It's understandable that it happened last season when heads went and people stopped trying but that is obviously not the case any more.
I didn’t use the quote to create it. I’ve watched Bruno play since he came to United. I’ve watched him spam nonsensical pass attempts that have resulted in giving the ball away to the opposition - sometimes in very dangerous areas for United - I’ve questioned his decision-making and then found him saying he will give the ball away a lot and that he will miss a lot of passes because he often attempts passes that aren’t on. His quotes just corroborate what I said, spay and pray.
I like EtH, my post history can attest, but I never thought of any single manager as infallible and criticising Bruno or his playstyle isn’t necessarily “slag him off”. I’ve also praised him in this thread previously. We’ll all have different things we enjoy watching/want out of the players/team. It’s OK. It’s a discussing board. You’ll be alright.
Fantastic player, can be ragged in his passing but is so productive with goals, assists and creating. Feisty and influential, he would have been a perfect Fergie player. And Lampard-like reliability in being fit enough to play the whole of every game.
Is he resting during the international break?
Just scrolling through the last few pages and I find this thread to be a bit of a microcosm. Everything is extremes. If you criticise your a hater, if you admire or support your blind or a Stan. I wish there was more balance in discussion and less criticism rather than letting the points speak for themselves. Bruno is clearly an effective part of the team as goals and assists show. However I believe his lack of consistency in pass completion, especially in the build up phase can hinder the fluidity of the team. The game is easier when we have possession and I believe as we develop as a team we will control and thus dominate games more consistently. When Bruno plays at he’s best he can play a part in this evolution. If the levels fluctuate as they they do, then he may find it difficult. This criteria should apply to all players with context in my opinion. Thus the same energy people bring for Mc Tomiany or Fred I hope they keep for Bruno and visa versa.
I mean that's because he basically doesn't have anyone else to compete with him, and plays almost every game besides some shite Carabao early round ties.
For instance, you can use that reasoning as to "why Bruno is so important" but if we took someone like Bellingham and stuck him in Bruno's place and tweaked the formation to be a bit more of a 433, you'd see just as much dangerous attacking play just most likely in a different style. I promise Bruno Fernandes isn't the ultimate key to a football team every being able to create chances.
It's very tiring to even try to discuss, because so many just go to extremes and illogical points to support their side without bringing into consideration the points they are arguing against.
I'm not suggesting he is the ultimate key, but the reality at the moment is we play with what we have in the formation that ETH determines is our best with what he has to choose from, and Bruno appears to be the only player currently available that's capable of consistently creating chances
Yeah, it’s part of the reason I don’t participate in the chat much. I don’t mind an apposition view to mine as long as people can bring a rational rather than skewed debate. There’s def some insightful posters but a lot gets lost in the noise.
Looks like another 90min game coming up. We will have to detox him to get rid of "punt the balls to CR7" tactic.
4-0 up after 63 mins and the manager keeps him on the field for 89mins
The stat mentioned during the Fulham game was mental he played the most minutes than any player in all top 5 leagues which doesn’t sound that insane until you hear it includes goalkeepers.
His fitness and injury record is insane but I think a small knock that keeps him out for a week or 2 be good he needs a rest
His fitness and injury record is insane but I think a small knock that keeps him out for a week or 2 be good he needs a rest
He's insanely fit. He can handle it for the most part, I don't really worry about injuries or stamina for him, so while it's a bit annoying Portugal used him like that, it's also their right and he's a player that can take it. Sometimes his form dips but I think it's a bit easy to blame that on tiredness. He's a high risk player that takes the aggressive options so there is more variance but I don't see much to think it's about fatigue. Often when people say he's tired he'll bounce back the next game.
Nevermind the score it was also against liechtenstein who are rubbish he should of been brought off really early but it’s Martinez and we all know he’s a clown4-0 up after 63 mins and the manager keeps him on the field for 89mins
It's hard for me to form a coherent opinion about Bruno really. On the one hand he's the only creative outlet we have without Eriksen, and his output is great; without him we'd be in trouble. On the other hand, he constantly loses the ball in dangerous areas and seems a little brainless at times. High risk high reward yes, but not all the risk he seems to take is about reward. He seems quite sanguine about doing it on the edge of our own box etc. You can understand it though, given our effective forwards consist of him and Rashford.
I do think he's an important player for our current team, but I'd also like to see what a team with a functioning creative midfield/forward line could do without him.
I do think he's an important player for our current team, but I'd also like to see what a team with a functioning creative midfield/forward line could do without him.
This actually annoyed me a lot. They’ve got Luxembourg away next but you can bet he’ll be playing most of that game.4-0 up after 63 mins and the manager keeps him on the field for 89mins
The only solace we can take is that he probs isn’t having to bust a guy in these fixtures . Acts as more of an extended training session.
I don't think it needs to be one way or another, but unfortunately with Bruno it is.
The top top level players can strike a good balance and know when to keep the ball to kill momentum of opposition attacks.
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