[TMDaines]

A midfielder/attacking midfielder who has 35 G+A by the first week in March could never be the problem. If we are conceding too many or don’t have control, the other midfielders need to sort it out.

Let's see the consistency in your argument.

I’m aware that it is a bold argument to make when Bruno had had the output that he has had, but our team has not been any better since he joined. He’s been here for a full season now and for whatever reason United’s expected points are even worse than they were this time last season.

Is Bruno culpable for United not having built on his output? I don’t know. Partially perhaps? How many teammates has he made better?

Sporting winning the Liga NOS wouldn’t be a good look either.

 

[Bwuk]

If Pogba is going to be out for much longer I think we either need to change formation or move Bruno deeper.

The lack of creativity behind him is totally killing him.

 

[Dinghy]

People got to stop with this "he's tired"-bullshit. This is the kind of player he is. Sloppy as feck on the ball with moments of brilliance.

 

[Adam-Utd]

His form has dropped, he looks frustrated. He cant be doing it all himself.

 

[Brad2020]

He's starting to look burnt and overplayed.

No quality back up AMF to relieve him...poor recruitment from Woodward for years now. All that money spent down the drain on bad deals.

 

[Born2Lose]

People got to stop with this "he's tired"-bullshit. This is the kind of player he is. Sloppy as feck on the ball with moments of brilliance.

Or he's a world class player surrounded by players who aren't.

 

[Inter Yer Nan]

We've not got enough players on his level, and we don't have players who's style would benefit his game enough. For the past 15 months, he's been head and shoulders above the next best player in the league, save for maybe De Bruyne.

 

[Heinzesight]

There was an interview with Solskjaer months ago and the interviewer was asking if he’d rest Fernandes next match and Ole went all red faced and like a shy kid said he wouldn’t dare as Bruno would be livid. Unfortunately Ole, you have to have some balls and rest players at the right time because he looks fecked to me. Yes, his normal game does mean he gives the ball away but his body language is that of someone who is shattered in my opinion.

 

[ReallyUSA]

People got to stop with this "he's tired"-bullshit. This is the kind of player he is. Sloppy as feck on the ball with moments of brilliance.

This isn't fecking FIFA. He doesn't sit a game, and if he isn't playing at a 8 or higher level the team struggles. That's because THEY are consistently sleepwalking through performances.

 

[tomaldinho1]

I’m aware that it is a bold argument to make when Bruno had had the output that he has had, but our team has not been any better since he joined. He’s been here for a full season now and for whatever reason United’s expected points are even worse than they were this time last season.

Is Bruno culpable for United not having built on his output? I don’t know. Partially perhaps? How many teammates has he made better?

Sporting winning the Liga NOS wouldn’t be a good look either.

I can't tell if Bruno forces Ole to play a double pivot or if Ole just wants to play a double pivot but either way it is not the way to play attacking, entertaining football.

He does give off vibes of essentially doing what he likes on the pitch and I'd love to see a coach with a personality like LVG come in and grab him by the scruff, tell him exactly where to play in a system and go nuts at him when he gives the ball away/drops too deep. Very good player but he's not going to be world class until he gets a bit more consistency - he's losing the ball double digits every game at the moment.

 

[FrankDrebin]

I’m aware that it is a bold argument to make when Bruno had had the output that he has had, but our team has not been any better since he joined. He’s been here for a full season now and for whatever reason United’s expected points are even worse than they were this time last season.

Is Bruno culpable for United not having built on his output? I don’t know. Partially perhaps? How many teammates has he made better?

Sporting winning the Liga NOS wouldn’t be a good look either.

That isn't his job.

 

[FrankDrebin]

Yeah, lets sell him.

 

[TMDaines]

That isn't his job.

It’s absolutely the job of a player in a team sport to improve his team and teammates.

 

[The Oracle]

Take away the penalties...

Now look at how many times Bruno loses possession.

In the 1st half tonight against Palace he lost possession 11 times.

Another poster mentioned he lost possession 34 times against Istanbul.

Bruno is viewed with rose-tinted glasses because of the amount of penalties he scores.

Now we are no longer getting penalties, the amount of times he gives the ball away must be looked at - because it is completely unacceptable.

 

[Lay]

Him giving away the ball was always a problem. It’s a reason we took so long to get the deal done. He’s still an integral part of the team, we just need to figure out a way to ensure if he has a bad game, we have others who step it up

 

[Baneofthegame]

Not been great the past few games, but no one else is stepping up to fill the void in his pot run of form.

 

[Born2Lose]

Wastes all his energy pressing while all the others can't be arsed.

Wouldn't blame him for leaving in the summer.

 

[MadDogg]

People got to stop with this "he's tired"-bullshit. This is the kind of player he is. Sloppy as feck on the ball with moments of brilliance.

He'll always be sloppy at times, but it does seem to happen more often after he's played pretty much every game for a couple of months. When he's truly playing well he mostly only gives away the ball when he's trying dangerous creative passes, whereas what we saw at the end of last season and for the last couple of months (bar a few really good games) has been consistently giving away easy passes and making it very difficult to actually build any kind of attacking moves. I'm not sure if it's tiredness, but there's a big difference.

There was a game recently against West Brom where he destroyed almost every play we had. It was noticeable that the best sustained attacking move we had that match was when Bruno was down with a bit of an injury and we just played on without him. Without him in there giving the ball away we actually kept it and moved the opposition around, getting players into a bit of space. Ultimately he ended up scoring our only goal of that match, but he'd been so bad that match that a very good question is whether we would have been better with somebody else in there. He wasn't 'that' bad today (West Brom was probably the worst match he's played for us), but when he's having those kinds of matches he just needs to settle down and focus on the basics for a while before ramping up into more risky passes again.

 

[FrankDrebin]

He's our (liverpool) Coutinho, if anyone wants a lazy comparison.

 

[Red Royal]

Those 45 minites last week against Real Socieadad seem even more pointless right now.

 

[MattofManchester]

I'll repeat that the baffling thing is that he's very clean and nowhere near as erratic for the Portuguese national team.
This is the result of sacrificing individuality for a cohesive unit.

We just seem to rely too much on him. Every ball goes to him when we need to create something.
Palace crowded him out today, which made us a walk in the park defensively for them.

Can't really be expecting him to do something for us every single week.

And yet he still pulls out moments, such as the left foot cross, that Maguire decided isn't coming to him, so doesn't bother to head the ball and it bounces off him for a goal kick.

 

[Rozay]

I just don’t like the situation where a midfielder needs to score a goal to justify selection. A little too much ‘he decides games when not playing well’ for me. Of course, in football - goals are always the bottom line - but I’d like to think the game is more nuanced than that.

As a team, I like to think the more you play well, the better the chance of consistently scoring goals and deciding games. That’s the best formula. In Bruno’s role - I’m more concerned with how he contributes to us playing well in the majority of games - rather than a player who wins us a lot of games despite the fact that we can’t manage to play well. Let’s first build a team that can play well, and be the better team of the two in most games. Before we even think of the result. Then if struggling to convert that - we can then look to match winners to get us over the line.

The idea of signing matchwinners is almost premature for us as we have not first learned how to be a very good team. I don’t think signing Bruno has made us a much better team - but it’s certainly won us more points than we would have. I don’t think it is down to him to make us a very good team in isolation either - but is down to the manager to first look to build a good team before just putting a match winner in it. This is the reason why, in recent years, Barcelona have struggled to be the same machine despite Messi winning them plenty of games that they were when Messi was the matchwinner in what was first and foremost - a good team. It is also the reason why casual observers say things like ‘Haaland won’t do that at United’ or ‘Sancho won’t create as many goals’. These are match winners, but first and foremost, our team isn’t good enough.

In summary, I do feel that for a team as a unit that was far from the level of a top one - Bruno’s signing hasn’t made us better. What he has been is a match winner, and he’s won us plenty. But he will never win us enough of them to compensate for us still being an average team. As a result, I think we should have focused on signing a midfielder who would more contribute to improving the base level of the team and performance. I think Grealish would have done that more, as an example, but ideally, I’d have preferred a quality 8 that can play in a 3. After that, if we can dominate more games, play better, and we’re still not winning enough - then try to add match winners. Basically, at the time, we needed a midfielder who would make us a better team more than we needed one who will win games first and foremost. That midfielder could never win enough games to make it worthwhile. It’s like how Messi wouldn’t make us champions, but might win City the CL. City need Messi more than they need a young Modric, but we need Modric more than Messi. We need to sort the foundations first. I think we should have focused on that before signing a player like Bruno.

 

[Martial'sEmergingSmile]

Had an absolutely terrible last 15 minutes of the first half, but I thought he tightened up a lot second half.

Finished with 84% pass completion, 4 key passes, 2/3 dribbles completed, 9/10 long balls completed...and, as usual, was one of the very few players on the pitch who looked like he gave a shit and didn't stop working and pressing.

We've got to the stage where he's becoming a victim of his own success - in that every average performance is seen as a horrific one.

 

[roonster09]

I’m aware that it is a bold argument to make when Bruno had had the output that he has had, but our team has not been any better since he joined. He’s been here for a full season now and for whatever reason United’s expected points are even worse than they were this time last season.

Is Bruno culpable for United not having built on his output? I don’t know. Partially perhaps? How many teammates has he made better?

Sporting winning the Liga NOS wouldn’t be a good look either.

That post was with different context, the poster I was arguing with posted the same post with Pogba numbers when he had 23 goals + assists by feb, so I copied the post and changed to Bruno's numbers.

Anyways I don't agree with your point. Team's best player is not the problem, problem is the average ones like Fred and also Ole who just can't set up a team to control the games.

 

[berbasloth4]

he has been amazing since he has arrived but he needs to mix it up. play him from the left or play him from the right. every team knows he wants in that hole. i dont need big wages to know crowd the area and he is ineffective.

 

[TMDaines]

I just don’t like the situation where a midfielder needs to score a goal to justify selection. A little too much ‘he decides games when not playing well’ for me. Of course, in football - goals are always the bottom line - but I’d like to think the game is more nuanced than that.

As a team, I like to think the more you play well, the better the chance of consistently scoring goals and deciding games. That’s the best formula. In Bruno’s role - I’m more concerned with how he contributes to us playing well in the majority of games - rather than a player who wins us a lot of games despite the fact that we can’t manage to play well. Let’s first build a team that can play well, and be the better team of the two in most games. Before we even think of the result. Then if struggling to convert that - we can then look to match winners to get us over the line.

The idea of signing matchwinners is almost premature for us as we have not first learned how to be a very good team. I don’t think signing Bruno has made us a much better team - but it’s certainly won us more points than we would have. I don’t think it is down to him to make us a very good team in isolation either - but is down to the manager to first look to build a good team before just putting a match winner in it. This is the reason why, in recent years, Barcelona have struggled to be the same machine despite Messi winning them plenty of games that they were when Messi was the matchwinner in what was first and foremost - a good team. It is also the reason why casual observers say things like ‘Haaland won’t do that at United’ or ‘Sancho won’t create as many goals’. These are match winners, but first and foremost, our team isn’t good enough.

In summary, I do feel that for a team as a unit that was far from the level of a top one - Bruno’s signing hasn’t made us better. What he has been is a match winner, and he’s won us plenty. But he will never win us enough of them to compensate for us still being an average team. As a result, I think we should have focused on signing a midfielder who would more contribute to improving the base level of the team and performance. I think Grealish would have done that more, as an example, but ideally, I’d have preferred a quality 8 that can play in a 3. After that, if we can dominate more games, play better, and we’re still not winning enough - then try to add match winners. Basically, at the time, we needed a midfielder who would make us a better team more than we needed one who will win games first and foremost. That midfielder could never win enough games to make it worthwhile. It’s like how Messi wouldn’t make us champions, but might win City the CL. City need Messi more than they need a young Modric, but we need Modric more than Messi. We need to sort the foundations first. I think we should have focused on that before signing a player like Bruno.

Really great post.

What we have seen in the last couple of months is United regressing to only achieving the results and points that their underlying performances have suggested. What’s a worry is that we have had three wins in ten league games – and we have deserved no more. It feels as if we have the match winners to make the difference, but the underlying performances aren’t there to serve as the foundation.

 

[roonster09]

Had an absolutely terrible last 15 minutes of the first half, but I thought he tightened up a lot second half.

Finished with 84% pass completion, 4 key passes, 2/3 dribbles completed, 9/10 long balls completed...and, as usual, was one of the very few players on the pitch who looked like he gave a shit and didn't stop working and pressing.

We've got to the stage where he's becoming a victim of his own success - in that every average performance is seen as a horrific one.

And also somehow people started to blame him for the team performance when him and Shaw are the 2 players who plays well.

We have this habit though, always blame the team's best player instead of pointing out the shit ones.

 

[Eddy_JukeZ]

Had an absolutely terrible last 15 minutes of the first half, but I thought he tightened up a lot second half.

Finished with 84% pass completion, 4 key passes, 2/3 dribbles completed, 9/10 long balls completed...and, as usual, was one of the very few players on the pitch who looked like he gave a shit and didn't stop working and pressing.

We've got to the stage where he's becoming a victim of his own success - in that every average performance is seen as a horrific one.

He is a victim of his own success.

If we had 10 more like him in the team, we'd probably win the title.

 

[GlasgowCeltic]

I'd like to see him moved deeper to play himself back into form, by form I mean playing himself back into excellent performances again. His output will of course come as a result of that but he needs to help the team to actually play better first.

 

[simplyared]

There are issues: his constant whinging and body language needs to be addressed.
Painful to see!

 

[Rozay]

He is a victim of his own success.

If we had 10 more like him in the team, we'd probably win the title.

We might do, if the coach could figure out a way to make them play well as a team. Having 10 more like him in the sense that he’s one match winner and 1 multiplied by 10 is better than just 1 is simplistic and not the way forward in and of itself though.

 

[Eddy_JukeZ]

We might do, if the coach could figure out a way to make them play well as a team. Having 10 more like him in the sense that he’s one match winner and 1 multiplied by 10 is better than just 1 is simplistic and not the way forward in and of itself though.

Fully agree.

It's been our biggest problem post-SAF. We don't play well enough as a team to be a truly top team.

 

[GlasgowCeltic]

Fully agree.

It's been our biggest problem post-SAF. We don't play well enough as a team to be a truly top team.

I'd say biggest problem post Queiroz

 

[Rozay]

Fully agree.

It's been our biggest problem post-SAF. We don't play well enough as a team to be a truly top team.

Indeed. And frankly, before Fergie retired too.

On the whole, the percentage of our games that we actually play well in is remarkably low. Results paper over the cracks, but even then - the results aren’t and won’t ever be good enough anyway without sorting out the basics. You will get found out eventually. But even the worst teams that we play would probably beat us of they had a bit more quality. We have to heroically beat them with late winners after they probably deserved something from the game. That’s home or away, top 6 or bottom 6.

 

[Sylar]

For all his sloppiness here and there, the one thing he doesnt do is slack off. He may give the ball away, but he does his utmost to get it back.
You cant say that for at least half the team.

Hes been crowded out and its up to the other players to take that opportunity and space it frees up. Unfortunately they arent (esp since Pogba has been injured) and in effect, it means him as our talisman, gets the finger pointed at.

 

[AltiUn]

He's had some inconsisent performances but he's the last player I'd be laying into. 33 G+A in 40 games is a fantastic return, if some of our other attackers bothered contributing then we might've given City a half decent run. It seems to be a common theme at United that we always target our best players when we get a disappointing result, Pogba, Fernandes and Shaw are recent examples of this, instead of the same shit players who do nothing of note on a game to game basis but get off scot-free due to "expectations" but personally, I think any United first team player should be held to the exact same standards.

There have been some massive underperformers this season who deserve to be called out before Shaw and Fernandes, who've been carrying us almost single-handedly at times this season. Despite the odd good performance here and there, I think Maguire, Matic, McTominay, Lindelof, de Gea, Fred, Wan-Bissaka and Martial have all been anywhere ranging from poor to utterly woeful this season, certainly well below what they're capable of. Rashford's all round game and attitude has been appalling at times, but at least he's actually chipping in with goals and assists. I think Greenwood's all-round game has improved but if he wants to be a senior player at United then he has to start scoring and assisting, otherwise he's just wasting a spot in the team. With the CBs and CMs I get the feeling they don't understand what's expected of them, Pogba's the only midfielder who seems to know what he's supposed to be doing.

 

[lex talionis]

Bruno gives us everything he’s got but he’s clearly wrecked and needs a break. But he’s not going to get one anytime soon as we’re facing high octane opponents the next few weeks.

 

[Adam-Utd]

And also somehow people started to blame him for the team performance when him and Shaw are the 2 players who plays well.

We have this habit though, always blame the team's best player instead of pointing out the shit ones.

Pogba syndrome all over again, while the same culprits are still here getting a free pass.

 

[He'sRaldo]

Pogba syndrome all over again, while the same culprits are still here getting a free pass.

I disagree, Fernandes is getting the same shit as everyone else seeing he pulled a similar stinker to everyone else (which has happened quite often but been papered over by stats).

As far as I know there have been no calls for him to be benched or sold, no calls of him being a virus or a bad dressing room influence, etc. He's simply being judged by his performances, which is fine.

With that said, I think our players are judged quite harshly given that the problems obviously stem from management.

 

[DoomSlayer]

There are issues: his constant whinging and body language needs to be addressed.
Painful to see!

Yeah, should be sold, right? Can't have players that are unhappy with not being competitive, it will hurt the image and brand of Manchester United PLC.