[Poborsky's hair]

This is the Pogba syndrome all over again. He's literally the only player in our team who can create something, so in these types of games he's got the weight of the world on his shoulders and inevitably underperforms. We better strengthen this summer otherwise I could see him wanting to move elsewhere in a couple of years

If he moves away that's his thing, we are Manchester united not a fanclub of Bruno Fernandes. He as a player should escape criticism and perform to his best which lately he's very far from and yeah we have to strengthen, that's not news really. Give him competition so he's not undroppable after performances like this and many before..

 

[Wayne's World]

He was playing so deep today. Basically was the DM at times

 

[Rozay]

More concerned with trying to referee the game today (which is not uncommon tbh). Midfield is a poor area of the team that needs sorting. We’ve masked it a bit by having one of our three midfielders who put up striker numbers - but in the actual ‘midfielding’ department of being midfielders - we’re miles behind the top level.

 

[Water Melon]

He is knackered and is getting worse. With Pogba out, he needs to create on his own and he can not do that. His passing has been off lately, so has been his decision making. There is some lead not only in his boots but in his brain as well. Desperately needs some rest, but won't get it unless injured.

 

[Devil may care]

Workrate was very good as usual but I thought he was sloppy on the ball today.

 

[MadDogg]

He wasn't as bad as he has been in some other games this season, but obviously he still wasn't great. Most

 

[snk123]

His bad is Rooney level bad. So inconsistent this season.

 

[Mbappe2021]

A lot of people here can't take the criticism but are the first to accept it whenever it is certain players like martial who people can't wait to put down just really shameful but not surprising.

 

[Andersons Dietician]

He was super poor today, barely even in the game and when he was his passing was terrible. It amazes me game by game how many easy passes he screws up. Some of them today were quite laughable.

I‘m surprised Ole didn’t get him off but he’s played poorly in so many games this season and come away with eventually finding an assist or a goal Probably thinks he can do it whenever.

 

[starman]

Hes kind of coincided our transition in our inability to beat top teams. Not quite the flat track bully status, but hes much more suited against teams where we have plenty of possession and can get away with giving the ball away regularly trying risky passes.

It won't happen, as there's this arura been built around him that he is indispensable and must start every game, but I wouldn't mind him starting from the benched against some of the top teams and come on if needed like against Liverpool in the FA cup.

 

[Raven]

This is the Pogba syndrome all over again. He's literally the only player in our team who can create something, so in these types of games he's got the weight of the world on his shoulders and inevitably underperforms. We better strengthen this summer otherwise I could see him wanting to move elsewhere in a couple of years

It's called decision making. If the final ball isn't on, just fecking pass it and move.

 

[kidbob]

He'll always be erratic I think, its just the way his game is. Thats why I think he'd shine much better with two good possession based midfielders behind him. Think the likes of a Carrick and a McTominay or Fred type who is more consistent on the ball. The problem with Bruno being erratic stems from the fact that our other midfielders are erratic too. With Bruno its worth it because of his output but having more consistency behind him would really make this a non issue for me.

Its tough because we do really need a CF, CB and ST but for me we really need at least one midfielder this summer but would rather too. In hindsight VDB was the wrong type of midfield signing.

 

[kouroux]

A lot of people here can't take the criticism but are the first to accept it whenever it is certain players like martial who people can't wait to put down just really shameful but not surprising.

Surely you can see why Bruno is given more leeway than Martial no ? All players cannot be judged the same way. Some have earned more patience than others

 

[Jeppers7]

Surely you can see why Bruno is given more leeway than Martial no ? All players cannot be judged the same way. Some have earned more patience than others

Our top scorer last season and player of the year

 

[Jeppers7]

Another poor performance....going to count up my comments at the end of the season to balance out the stick others get. Whenever Bruno plays well, he never has a bad game.....when he has a bad game, he can’t carry us every week. He’s having about 3 poor games to every good game.

 

[Gehrman]

More concerned with trying to referee the game today (which is not uncommon tbh). Midfield is a poor area of the team that needs sorting. We’ve masked it a bit by having one of our three midfielders who put up striker numbers - but in the actual ‘midfielding’ department of being midfielders - we’re miles behind the top level.

Its quite funny how little we've managed to sort out midfield for about 10 years.

 

[Rozay]

Our top scorer last season and player of the year

Was going to respond this myself. Martial has always had an extremely short string with many. Which is a shame as there have been many highlights. In addition to him being our top scorer just last season - he’s had many other great moments. Debut goal vs Liverpool, last minute FA Cup semi-final goal. Stepped up in many games others didn’t too - last league game under Van Gaal vs WHU when we were CL chasing and he scores two goals for one.

I have no problem with us upgrading him at all, but the vitriol and general lack of affection for one of our players isn’t great. He’s on a bad patch, and has been totally trashed whereas with others, perhaps they would have every bad game explained away or just supported/encouraged to reproduce his better form.

 

[Rozay]

Its quite funny how little we've managed to sort out midfield for about 10 years.

I think different managers and different ideas of how our midfield should function have been a factor here. As it stands, I can’t say I know what Ole’s idea for our midfield even is.

 

[Wednesday at Stoke]

I think different managers and different ideas of how our midfield should function have been a factor here. As it stands, I can’t say I know what Ole’s idea for our midfield even is.

Ole's idea of a midfield is trying to swim with a Pogba sized anchor tied to its ankles.

 

[Bwuk]

If you shut him down you shut United down.

We are far too reliant on him.

 

[AKDevil]

So he might be a flat track bully, but what a flat track bully.

 

[Andersons Dietician]

I think different managers and different ideas of how our midfield should function have been a factor here. As it stands, I can’t say I know what Ole’s idea for our midfield even is.

Maybe just because it’s what he tends to favour but Fred and McT seems his go to which makes me think he wants two energetic busy bodies that can do multiple jobs to free up Bruno to play as a second striker. At times it’s seems more like we are playing 442.

I guess those two allow other positions to take more risks to try and benefit from the fast counters. Quite possible Ole doesn’t see the need for someone who can get in midfield and insert some control and dominance. Even when it’s Pogba in there it’s still quite fast and loose.

 

[Zlatan 7]

Done so much running today, worked relentlessly

 

[el3mel]

There're definitely big concerns about his big games performance and we can't ignore them. He's our best player by a long margin but honestly he has been godawful in all big games in the league. It's not just there's no output, his passing and chances creation take a nose dive in these games. I'm not convinced by the notion that other teams double team him so he appears. Many times today he was completely free with the ball on a counter and still put on a terrible pass.

It's a big worry. Hopefully it's just this season and won't be permanent, because if your best player becomes always invisible in big games, there's no hope for you to win jack shit.

 

[Rozay]

So he might be a flat track bully, but what a flat track bully.

Nothing wrong with a flat track bully IMO. Every game is worth 3 points ‘big games’ are more for fans and storyline like WWE fights.

My only issue here is that Bruno is supposedly not a striker. I don’t understand the concept of a flat track bully midfielder. For me, goals isn’t the metric I use to judge midfielders. It’s what I use for strikers, and I don’t mind a forward who puts most teams away and is more sporadic against top teams.

I’m more concerned with Bruno’s regular game once goals are removed altogether personally. That’s where I actually judge him as a midfielder in the first place. If he excelled in all of those areas consistently, and only got 8 goals a season, I’d have no problem with it. If the team struggled to get enough goals as a result, I’d be holding the three in front of him accountable.

Like, Maguire is a centre half who is strong in the air to the point where goals are expected from him. However, I think it would be ridiculous to call him a flat track bully and say his goals haven’t come against the big sides. He needs to defend first and foremost, although of course, you want goals from him. But if he’s defending brilliantly, he’s doing well.

 

[Freeney]

I don’t care if it’s unpopular at the moment but this guy is not good enough to be playing as a number 10 in a title winning side. And that doesn’t mean he’s not good enough to be playing for a title side. I have been saying it for a long time but this 4231 formation will not get us anywhere. Espcially when you have a number 10 who’s not great at keeping the ball and is not influential in the build up play.
And for all the people who bring stats up, how do you explain the greatness of players like iniesta and David Silvia? Not everything is about the stats the individual has, but rather how he makes the players around him better.
This is the reason why i never have rated Dele alli for exempel. If you watch the game you don’t get blinded by only stats.

 

[Jeppers7]

I don’t care if it’s unpopular at the moment but this guy is not good enough to be playing as a number 10 in a title winning side. And that doesn’t mean he’s not good enough to be playing for a title side. I have been saying it for a long time but this 4231 formation will not get us anywhere. Espcially when you have a number 10 who’s not great at keeping the ball and is not influential in the build up play.
And for all the people who bring stats up, how do you explain the greatness of players like iniesta and David Silvia? Not everything is about the stats the individual has, but rather how he makes the players around him better.
This is the reason why i never have rated Dele alli for exempel. If you watch the game you don’t get blinded by only stats.

I keep reading journalists saying Bruno has made others around him better? Who? Rashford, Martial, Greenwood, James? They’ve all had worse seasons than last season.

 

[roonster09]

I’m more concerned with Bruno’s regular game once goals are removed altogether personally. That’s where I actually judge him as a midfielder in the first place.

2nd most chances created in PL.

 

[roonster09]

I don’t care if it’s unpopular at the moment but this guy is not good enough to be playing as a number 10 in a title winning side. And that doesn’t mean he’s not good enough to be playing for a title side. I have been saying it for a long time but this 4231 formation will not get us anywhere. Espcially when you have a number 10 who’s not great at keeping the ball and is not influential in the build up play.
And for all the people who bring stats up, how do you explain the greatness of players like iniesta and David Silvia? Not everything is about the stats the individual has, but rather how he makes the players around him better.
This is the reason why i never have rated Dele alli for exempel. If you watch the game you don’t get blinded by only stats.

I keep reading journalists saying Bruno has made others around him better? Who? Rashford, Martial, Greenwood, James? They’ve all had worse seasons than last season.

How can any player make others look better? Its the job of the coach. Iniesta, David Silva didn't make their team mates look better, they were so good that they added so much to the team. They also played alongside great players, which obviously result in team looking much better,

 

[Irwin99]

Said it before but I wouldn't judge him too harshly in these games. The team isn't set up to dominate but rather stifle the opposition in the big matches and to nick it maybe with the odd goal. You'll see a different player on Wednesday because the tactics will allow him to shine more.

 

[Rozay]

2nd most chances created in PL.

Which is a key part of his job, of course. As a midfielder, there are others too, and I take the whole thing as a package.

Tbh, perhaps I shouldn’t use midfielder metrics to judge him as such. I see him as a decisive player. Perhaps metrics of decisiveness are best for him. As a whole, I just get so frustrated with us being poor in possession, so first and foremost, I will look to the midfield here, and passing statistics are something I’d look at. Admittedly, I don’t care as much about a forward’s passing stats, so that is probably a better metric to apply with Bruno. And by such metrics, he’s fantastic.

Like, I created a thread on Curtis Jones recently, and many people jumped in and threw goals and assist stats at me. To me, I see a talented midfield player, his G+A were neither here nor there. As I said, perhaps I should look at Bruno the same as the front men.

 

[kidbob]

I don’t care if it’s unpopular at the moment but this guy is not good enough to be playing as a number 10 in a title winning side. And that doesn’t mean he’s not good enough to be playing for a title side. I have been saying it for a long time but this 4231 formation will not get us anywhere. Espcially when you have a number 10 who’s not great at keeping the ball and is not influential in the build up play.
And for all the people who bring stats up, how do you explain the greatness of players like iniesta and David Silvia? Not everything is about the stats the individual has, but rather how he makes the players around him better.
This is the reason why i never have rated Dele alli for exempel. If you watch the game you don’t get blinded by only stats.

David Silva played with excellent midfield partners in his entire City career. Iniesta played with Xavi and the best player of all time too. What the hell do you expect of Bruno honestly? He's not a title winning 10 right now because he's not playing in a title quality team. I like Fred and McTominay but lets be honest its not exactly the same as playing with KDB is it? Give Bruno 2 midfielders who can control their fair share of the game against other top sides and if he's not good enough at that point then you have an argument to make. The problem with Bruno losing possession is that our other midfielders are bad for it too. If the lad was playing ahead of Scholes and Keane then there wouldn't be a complaint of this issue at all. The fact is that he's or best player by a country mile and if we aren't showing title winning form then look at the other 10 around him first.

Put Bruno in City's team and he'd likely score or assist every game because he's be surrounded by players who know how to keep possession and play against a high press. So maybe we shouldn't cry about him not being Silva or Iniesta and actually try and get the players around him to let his best qualities shine. Silva and Iniesta help you to control games but Messi and Aguero are what wins you games on the scoreboard. Bruno is much more an Aguero and Messi output style player than he is a controller and he's a damn good one at that so maybe we should find the Iniesta or Silva type to play with him.

Seriously this forum is fecking crazy at times. If you think that Bruno is in anyway a problem in this team you're crazy.

Edit: as for the Delle Alli mention?? Alli isn't fit to shit in the same toilet as Bruno is FFS.

 

[Strats]

He was shit today

Don't like it when he complains on team mates after he was the one who fecked up a pass. Did it to Shaw some time during first half.

 

[Rozay]

Said it before but I wouldn't judge him too harshly in these games. The team isn't set up to dominate but rather stifle the opposition in the big matches and to nick it maybe with the odd goal. You'll see a different player on Wednesday because the tactics will allow him to shine more.

This is true.

That said, Bruno can do better. He was sensational in Turin a couple of weeks ago. Possibly the best I’ve seen from him, and that was goals aside. He was assured and class in everything he did. I gave him a 10 out of 10 for that game.

 

[Jeppers7]

How can any player make others look better? Its the job of the coach. Iniesta, David Silva didn't make their team mates look better, they were so good that they added so much to the team. They also played alongside great players, which obviously result in team looking much better,

I know it’s ridiculous isn’t it. It tires me reading such nonsense.

 

[roonster09]

Which is a key part of his job, of course. As a midfielder, there are others too, and I take the whole thing as a package.

Tbh, perhaps I shouldn’t use midfielder metrics to judge him as such. I see him as a decisive player. Perhaps metrics of decisiveness are best for him. As a whole, I just get so frustrated with us being poor in possession, so first and foremost, I will look to the midfield here, and passing statistics are something I’d look at. Admittedly, I don’t care as much about a forward’s passing stats, so that is probably a better metric to apply with Bruno. And by such metrics, he’s fantastic.

We are poor in possession because Ole wants his team to go for forward passes quickly and that's from Ole himself (he said that in his interview with Neville). We are not a team that will control possession, we are more of a direct team. So most of our players will be careless in possession as we play more risky and direct passes.

Check KdB pass completion stats before and after Pep took over, same with players like Ndidi. If we have someone like Pep or manager who play possession football then we won't be so careless in possession.

 

[Freeney]

How can any player make others look better? Its the job of the coach. Iniesta, David Silva didn't make their team mates look better, they were so good that they added so much to the team. They also played alongside great players, which obviously result in team looking much better,

Of course having a coach like Pep makes you look better but i’m speaking more about his playing style. He’s playing basically as a second striker in this team. His link up play with the midfielders and forwards are not up to par with number 10 in other successfull teams in the past. Keep in my mind i’m critisizing his play in this formation. Perhaps it would look better in a 433 formation.

 

[Rozay]

David Silva played with excellent midfield partners in his entire City career. Iniesta played with Xavi and the best player of all time too. What the hell do you expect of Bruno honestly? He's not a title winning 10 right now because he's not playing in a title quality team. I like Fred and McTominay but lets be honest its not exactly the same as playing with KDB is it? Give Bruno 2 midfielders who can control their fair share of the game against other top sides and if he's not good enough at that point then you have an argument to make. The problem with Bruno losing possession is that our other midfielders are bad for it too. If the lad was playing ahead of Scholes and Keane then there wouldn't be a complaint of this issue at all. The fact is that he's or best player by a country mile and if we aren't showing title winning form then look at the other 10 around him first.

Put Bruno in City's team and he'd likely score or assist every game because he's be surrounded by players who know how to keep possession and play against a high press. So maybe we shouldn't cry about him not being Silva or Iniesta and actually try and get the players around him to let his best qualities shine. Silva and Iniesta help you to control games but Messi and Aguero are what wins you games on the scoreboard. Bruno is much more an Aguero and Messi output style player than he is a controller and he's a damn good one at that so maybe we should find the Iniesta or Silva type to play with him.

Seriously this forum is fecking crazy at times. If you think that Bruno is in anyway a problem in this team you're crazy.

Edit: as for the Delle Alli mention?? Alli isn't fit to shit in the same toilet as Bruno is FFS.

Think the issue here is team philosophy. For me, Bruno couldn’t have played in a City or Barcelona team as he doesn’t have the qualities for it. Silva or Iniesta couldn’t replace Bruno in our team because their qualities aren’t suited to it either. We don’t keep possession well not because of Bruno in and of itself. It’s because we haven’t structured our entire team to keep possession.

As has been discussed in the FF, we play transition football, not possession football. And Bruno suits this, as do Fred and McTominay in their defence. The question we will need to answer is whether that is the right approach on the whole. But it isn’t as simple as mixing and matching IMO. Bruno suits the team that we are right now. The question for me isn’t as to Bruno’s quality, it is a question as to the team we are/want to be.

Personally, I prefer the structure of 3 proper midfielders in a 433 rather than 2 midfielders and a nominal midfielder ahead of them. I’m aware that that would result in a lower goal tally per individual, and I personally wouldn’t mind that, so long as the entire unit worked better as a result, including those who are primarily supposed to score goals are doing so consistently. On another day, the pen is given and Bruno may have scored today and we win 1-0. But Mason Mount, who was his opposite number, would have ‘played better’ in my eyes, comparing the performances of the two. Mount will never put up the same numbers though, and different coaches will have their preferences there. For me, I’d like us to be structurally set up to control games and create chances from all angles rather than waiting for moments from individuals.

 

[roonster09]

Think the issue here is team philosophy. For me, Bruno couldn’t have played in a City or Barcelona team as he doesn’t have the qualities for it. Silva or Iniesta couldn’t replace Bruno in our team because their qualities aren’t suited to it either. We don’t keep possession well not because of Bruno in and of itself. It’s because we haven’t structured our entire team to keep possession.

Why not? KdB averaged 75-78% pass completion before Pep took over and he never had any problems playing for Pep.

KdB also topped the stats for most possession stats for most of the seasons he wasn't injured, still never saw anyone saying he can't play for Pep. It's all about how the team is set up. If everyone is making the runs, available for passes, in sync with each other then player wouldn't just randomly hit 50 yards passes.

No one cares about KdB's possession loss stat because of his numbers and his team winning titles (lets be honest here, his team will win title with or without KdB as they have already proved it). It's same for every player. Narrative changes based on whether they are playing for title winning team or other team who won't win titles.

 

[bosnian_red]

Some games like this one just aren't good for him IMO. Or at least, not without someone like Pogba around. In the big games, against high pressing teams, we need some players who can keep the ball under pressure, receive it and hold it up properly and make things happen with it to relieve pressure. Somehow Pogba is ALWAYS out for the big games, which is very annoying, but he would make a huge difference. He'd have that quality. Bruno has different qualities to Pogba, but against a back 5 of James, Azpilicueta, Christensen, Rudiger, Chilwell with fecking Kante and Kovacic holding the midfield, I'm not sure how anyone can expect any of our attacking players to make much happen. Certainly without those players who can hold the ball under pressure like Pogba. Bruno's qualities are those to speed up the game and make something happen out of nothing, create and score loads. But you need that composure as well to pair with that to let the play develop, and Bruno isn't really that type of player. Pogba is, so I think that's one of the biggest things we lacked in general for these big games.