Brexit related judicial reviews: Supreme Court | Judgment: Prorogation was unlawful

Prisoners voting.

If you don't want that to be allowed then being out of the EU will prevent it from being forced on us against the vast majority of UK public opinion and the repeatedly expressed will of parliament.

I know it is not a show stopping reason but it is a reason. If you take the different line on it fine but the logic is clear the point is valid.

I've made it before but you still get people saying I haven't heard one reason why.

Well there it is.

Are there so many prisoners that they might turn an election?

I'm not meaning to be a dick because I used to think that way but really it's totally irrelevant to results and disenfranchising people who are in prison only serves to widen the gap between them and normal society, likely leading them to become more deeply entrenched in a criminal lifestyle.
 
Prisoners voting.

If you don't want that to be allowed then being out of the EU will prevent it from being forced on us against the vast majority of UK public opinion and the repeatedly expressed will of parliament.

I know it is not a show stopping reason but it is a reason. If you take the different line on it fine but the logic is clear the point is valid.

I've made it before but you still get people saying I haven't heard one reason why.

Well there it is.

Jesus Christ.
 
FFS :lol:

On the day when @WensleyMU's ludicrous claim to know more about everyone else about how Parliament works was blown out of the water he's now arguing that he knows more than everyone about how the courts work.

He is Trump
 
The problem is they are so intricate that I had to go away and research and I don't feel comfortable getting into the ins and outs on subjects that I am a novice on. Things like Trade deals, legislation, security and how the European parliament works.

I had never considered the fact that there would be cliques with each Country just working for their own means. I had this idealistic view that they would all work together for the common good.

Researching our imports and out and how we export far more to USA than we import.

Then obviously the disaster of the EUR.

The problem I was trying to address is the assumption that people who voted to leave are stupid.

There are some very, very clever thoughts on both sides.

Eek, I don't want to sound too condescending as we're all friends here but if you are going to state their are very clever thoughts on the side of Brexit your going to have to back that up. Especially when you seem to be talking about economic matters...

The economy debate ended long ago, Brexiteers have pretty much given up that element of it, they have nothing... zip, zero. There is literally no possible chance that Brexit can be good for the UK economy without remaining in single market/CU, even then the odds are well against us, there is nothing but disaster awaiting there. Ever wonder why Brexiteers are only shouting about democracy and 'getting on with i't now? There is no tangible argument for them any more. Think an emergency trade deal with India & USA would replace what we have now? Think again.

The problem is, if you want to debate about these things, you do have to do the research, you have to find citations for the thing you read and hear, because there is a LOT of nonsense thrown about and unquestionably more from one side than the other.
 
Your user name is very appropriate
You can't proclaim that Leave have very clever ideas and then refuse to actually list them or back yourself up. That's the sort of shit that caused the UK to vote leave in the first place. Why don't you tell us these clever ideas so we can openly discuss them?
 
So far the only reasons I've heard for voting leave have been

To stop prisoners being given the vote.

To stop being involved in the formation of a United States of Europe

And somebody saying they have loads of reasons but it's too intricate and complex to talk about them on here.

Is that it?
 
So far the only reasons I've heard for voting leave have been

To stop prisoners being given the vote.

To stop being involved in the formation of a United States of Europe

And somebody saying they have loads of reasons but it's too intricate and complex to talk about them on here.

Is that it?

A lot of people I talk to want to stay aligned with the EU in an economic sense, but are against further integration with the EU politically. The idea 17.4m people voted to leave without a deal is absurd.
 
So far the only reasons I've heard for voting leave have been

To stop prisoners being given the vote.

To stop being involved in the formation of a United States of Europe

And somebody saying they have loads of reasons but it's too intricate and complex to talk about them on here.

Is that it?

I smell the EU Army but don't quote me.:)
 
Prisoners voting.

If you don't want that to be allowed then being out of the EU will prevent it from being forced on us against the vast majority of UK public opinion and the repeatedly expressed will of parliament.

I know it is not a show stopping reason but it is a reason. If you take the different line on it fine but the logic is clear the point is valid.

I've made it before but you still get people saying I haven't heard one reason why.

Well there it is.

If the UK doesn't want it, the UK veto's it.

Next?
 
A lot of people I talk to want to stay aligned with the EU in an economic sense, but are against further integration with the EU politically.The idea 17.4m people voted to leave without a deal is absurd.

Yeah good point.

I imagine a 2nd referendum will be based around that.

The ony problem is, as we've seen in this thread, there are plenty of people who seem to think a no deal exit would be fine and don't mind being conned.
 
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A lot of people I talk to want to stay aligned with the EU in an economic sense, but are against further integration with the EU politically. The idea 17.4m people voted to leave without a deal is absurd.

You see that's one of the good arguments but it has big consequences, it means that you won't be aligned in an economic sense because that's a political decision.
 
Prisoners voting.

If you don't want that to be allowed then being out of the EU will prevent it from being forced on us against the vast majority of UK public opinion and the repeatedly expressed will of parliament.

I know it is not a show stopping reason but it is a reason. If you take the different line on it fine but the logic is clear the point is valid.

I've made it before but you still get people saying I haven't heard one reason why.

Well there it is.

We'll it's a reason but not something that would sway me one way or another in a major decision.

There may be plenty of UK laws or French laws or EU regulations that I may disagree with too but overall it's a balance.
 
It's scary to honour the democratic will of the people?
I've said this time and time again; the referendum wasn't the "democratic will of the people". The Leave vote accounted for around 30% of the UK population, with the rest either voting Remain, not voting at all of not being registered to vote. That's not a majority of anything.
 
A lot of people I talk to want to stay aligned with the EU in an economic sense, but are against further integration with the EU politically. The idea 17.4m people voted to leave without a deal is absurd.

Absolutely absurd. The problem is that you simply cannot pick and choose which bits of the EU you like and dismiss the rest.
 
That's very vague, do you have a simple example or two?

Because the EU isn't a federation every country have individual policies and goals and will protect them within and outside the EU framework. I'm not too sure what EUR disaster is supposed to be. What do you mean by security, legislation or how the European parliament works?

As I said I am not an expert ....

Security - European Union & NATO ... traditionally the likes of Sweden and Finland have remained neutral so as not to upset Russia so they have been involved in some Euro Union campaigns such as containing the somalian pirates. There is concern over Russia and the need to act and some leavers are concerned that it is actually more difficult to do so within the existing coalition
 
As I said I am not an expert ....

Security - European Union & NATO ... traditionally the likes of Sweden and Finland have remained neutral so as not to upset Russia so they have been involved in some Euro Union campaigns such as containing the somalian pirates. There is concern over Russia and the need to act and some leavers are concerned that it is actually more difficult to do so within the existing coalition

This has nothing to do with EU membership.
 
Are there so many prisoners that they might turn an election?

I'm not meaning to be a dick because I used to think that way but really it's totally irrelevant to results and disenfranchising people who are in prison only serves to widen the gap between them and normal society, likely leading them to become more deeply entrenched in a criminal lifestyle.

OK we disagree that is fine.

I am just pointing out that leaving the EU will prevent this being imposed. If that was a make or break issue for you personally it would make sense to vote leave.
 
Prisoners voting.

If you don't want that to be allowed then being out of the EU will prevent it from being forced on us against the vast majority of UK public opinion and the repeatedly expressed will of parliament.

I know it is not a show stopping reason but it is a reason. If you take the different line on it fine but the logic is clear the point is valid.

I've made it before but you still get people saying I haven't heard one reason why.

Well there it is.

You know before the EU ruling many organisations in the UK were already compaigning for it to come to fuition so it would of eventually come in anyway.

Then there is the fact the prison population is soo tiny that it has 0 influence on actual voting numbers. It's more a way for them to integrate them into society better.

Was that really the only reason to vote to destroy the economy?
 
This has nothing to do with EU membership.

I am not sure that it is correct to say that the security of Europe has nothing to do with EU membership.
Yes, the security of Europe is primarily in the hands of NATO. But it must be said that a strong Europe which is largely the result of a strong EU is more likely to present a stronger deterent to Russia for example.
 
They are literally just saying they agree or disagree.

Beyond that nothing.

And judges are not experts. The clue is in the name.
I take it you're not an expert on linguistics, the clue is in your post.

Judge comes from the Old French word Juge, which comes from the Latin word Judic, which is the combination of Jus and Dicere which translates into "to say" and, wait for it, "law".
 
You know before the EU ruling many organisations in the UK were already compaigning for it to come to fuition so it would of eventually come in anyway.

Then there is the fact the prison population is soo tiny that it has 0 influence on actual voting numbers. It's more a way for them to integrate them into society better.

Was that really the only reason to vote to destroy the economy?

Look. Prisoners vote was a sideshow in the referendum at very best. I really cannot recall it being an issue at all.
 
It actually does and it is very interesting if you have the time to research.

Genuine question.

You know yourself that you clearly voted to leave. Does the fact you’re constantly claiming to have voted remain to appear rational not have you doubting that idea somewhat?
 
OK we disagree that is fine.

I am just pointing out that leaving the EU will prevent this being imposed. If that was a make or break issue for you personally it would make sense to vote leave.

No doubt, what I'm saying is that there's no convincing argument that would turn it into a make or break issue other than something very personal like a friend or loved one having been murdered, which you can't really have a rational discoirse on.
 
We'll it's a reason but not something that would sway me one way or another in a major decision.

There may be plenty of UK laws or French laws or EU regulations that I may disagree with too but overall it's a balance.

Yes, the matter irks me which is why I remember it but overall not enough to sway me into voting leave. I still think it should be left to the nation state though under subsidiarity.
 
It actually does and it is very interesting if you have the time to research.

So these intricate and complex reasons for leaving that you can't go into, did they change your mind?

You said you voted remain, but would you now vote leave?
 
You know before the EU ruling many organisations in the UK were already compaigning for it to come to fuition so it would of eventually come in anyway.

Then there is the fact the prison population is soo tiny that it has 0 influence on actual voting numbers. It's more a way for them to integrate them into society better.

Was that really the only reason to vote to destroy the economy?
It’s clutching the straws and hiding behind true reason he voted leave (same as vast majority) which is Johnny foreigner.
 
Right?

So what's this before and after view?

How were things better before joining the EU in 1973?
Less Johnny Foreigners and you could have an opinion without some kale munching hippie telling you you're racist for not being "politically correct".

Also, you could buy a house for 50 bob and there was none of that Britain's Got Talent on the television. Clearly the beaurocracts in Brussels are to blame for that. My children don't talk to me anymore either so feck their futures and their kid's futures as well. But of selfish cnuts, always complaining about how life is difficult. I grew up with rationing. For the first five years of my life, and then it went away. Some people say my generation have had it easier than the one before and after me but my gut tells me that's wrong and that's all there is to it. My gut, my facts.
 
So these intricate and complex reasons for leaving that you can't go into, did they change your mind?

You said you voted remain, but would you now vote leave?

Yes and not only me my 2 teenage children, my husband and a majority of our friends and colleagues would as well.

I think it is something that you have to research outside the mainstream papers. There is so much on both sides that is biased.
 
Less Johnny Foreigners and you could have an opinion without some kale munching hippie telling you you're racist for not being "politically correct".

Also, you could buy a house for 50 bob and there was none of that Britain's Got Talent on the television. Clearly the beaurocracts in Brussels are to blame for that. My children don't talk to me anymore either so feck their futures and their kid's futures as well. But of selfish cnuts, always complaining about how life is difficult. I grew up with rationing. For the first five years of my life, and then it went away. Some people say my generation have had it easier than the one before and after me but my gut tells me that's wrong and that's all there is to it. My gut, my facts.
No. Then they just moaned about people coming here from The Commonwealth countries.
 
Anyone watch the BBC News Special on just now? Called "Politics in Crisis", main image is of Boris Johnson, and there was barely any focus on today's decision.

Kuenssberg didn't refer to the unlawful nature of what Johnson did at all, and instead referred to it as a "very high wire strategy".

Andrew Neil, hosting it, then spent what felt like forever shouting over Chuka Umunna about why they weren't calling for a vote of no confidence, despite Chuka repeatedly trying to tell him that it was because there was no faith in Boris, who'd just been found to have broken the law, obeying the law and asking the EU for an extension.

There was then a short interlude where they asked some members of the public what their stance was. The Remain supporting person was questioned on what their plan of action is then if we were to replace Boris, and what they would do about the EU going forward. The Leave supporter, who followed and closed the segment, was allowed to state that we should just get on with it and we'll be fine "because we've done it before" completely unchallenged.

Andrew Neil then repeated what he did with Chuka Umunna with Dan Carden of Labour, shouting over him about a vote of no confidence, while Carden tried to explain again what the risks of that were at this time. He took it one step further this time though, asking Carden to make a guarantee to the public that should a vote of confidence take place and Corbyn come in as caretaker PM, that once an extension had been secured, Corbyn would call a GE. This, despite Carden telling Neil that he didn't know what cross-party conversations were taking place, or what decisions were likely to be made.

Following Carden was a Brexit Party MEP, who was afforded far more time to explain her point of view and where the Brexit Party stood, and while she received some interruption, it was far less frequent, shouty, and challenging. She also closed the show talking about their GE strategy.

Essentially no coverage of Johnson breaking the law, some nice platforming of the Brexit Party, and two, unprompted, pressing interviews, full of interruptions, with Remain MPs.

BBC Political coverage is absolutely shocking at the moment.
 
Yes and not only me my 2 teenage children, my husband and a majority of our friends and colleagues would as well.

I think it is something that you have to research outside the mainstream papers. There is so much on both sides that is biased.

Your argument for how incredible these reasons for leaving are do lose a lot of steam though when you can't or won't actually say what they are.

You must see that yourself?
 
OK we disagree that is fine.

I am just pointing out that leaving the EU will prevent this being imposed. If that was a make or break issue for you personally it would make sense to vote leave.

It's an ECHR topic, unless you decide to leave the Council of Europe, leaving the EU won't change much.
 
I am not sure that it is correct to say that the security of Europe has nothing to do with EU membership.
Yes, the security of Europe is primarily in the hands of NATO. But it must be said that a strong Europe which is largely the result of a strong EU is more likely to present a stronger deterent to Russia for example.

Read what he wrote, it has nothing to do with the EU.