Brexit related judicial reviews: Supreme Court | Judgment: Prorogation was unlawful

K13 said:
I know you have a job to do but I was enjoying reading his threads. I understood the point he was making and it was very interesting.
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He was obviously on the wind-up. That comment on the judges was just laughable - the fact he persisted on and on about it led to him rightly getting booted.
 
K13 said:
I have found the exact opposite. I have listened to many well formed arguments that have given me food for thought as a remainer.

I find it ironic though that individuals on the left side of the political spectrum question the intellect /decisions of the leave voters with very similar arguments that the privileged few used in 19 century England to deny the working man the vote for so long.

Personally I find it very sad reading the comments in both the Daily Mail and the Guardian at the amount of disrespect and lack of compromise individuals have for an opinion and ideal outside their own bubble.

In one sentence a left leaning person/remainer can castigate Boris Johnson for being undemocratic and then go on to suggest article 50 should be revoked.

On the right they are equally as bad in wanting Farage to become PM forgetting the convenient fact that he has yet to gain a majority to even be an MP.

In the middle there are the majority - people like me thinking why are people so extreme in their views. There is good and bad in both leave and remain but some having nailed their colours to the mast seem unable to shift their views even into a compromise position.

It has become a battle and a very, very unpleasant one that is waging in public and in the corridors of power.
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Mate it's nothing to do with that. One is using logic and fact the other uses emotion and lies. This is an issue that affects hundreds of millions its not about good or bad its about just facts. If one side spends the whole time denying facts then yes they are in the wrong. Especially when this effects so many.

Please give me one logical argument a leaver has given you that made you think they were right.
 
Djemba-Djemba said:
Care to share any?

I'm not doubting you, I just haven't heard any myself.
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Voting wise - some voted to join the European union back in 1973 so they have a before and after view that many of us new voters do not have.
 
K13 said:
Voting wise - some voted to join the European union back in 1973 so they have a before and after view that many of us new voters do not have.
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Right?

So what's this before and after view?

How were things better before joining the EU in 1973?
 
mancan92 said:
Mate it's nothing to do with that. One is using logic and fact the other uses emotion and lies. This is an issue that affects hundreds of millions its not about good or bad its about just facts. If one side spends the whole time denying facts then yes they are in the wrong. Especially when this effects so many.

Please give me one logical argument a leaver has given you that made you think they were right.
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This kinda of makes my point. I am right you are wrong .. it is pointless having a discussion when you have already made your mind up.
 
K13 said:
This kinda of makes my point. I am right you are wrong .. it is pointless having a discussion when you have already made your mind up.
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That's because as I've said I've had hundreds of conversations with brexiteers and I haven't heard one single argument for it that is more positive. So sorry if I can bring 100 reasons why it's worse yet I ask someone for brexit to bring one reason and they can't. Please tell me one.
 
mancan92 said:
Mate it's nothing to do with that. One is using logic and fact the other uses emotion and lies. This is an issue that affects hundreds of millions its not about good or bad its about just facts. If one side spends the whole time denying facts then yes they are in the wrong. Especially when this effects so many.

Please give me one logical argument a leaver has given you that made you think they were right.
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You've just answered your own question right there
 
mancan92 said:
That's because as I've said I've had hundreds of conversations with brexiteers and I haven't heard one single argument for it that is more positive. So sorry if I can bring 100 reasons why it's worse yet I ask someone for brexit to bring one reason and they can't. Please tell me one.
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More positive? So you have a set of criteria and no one has managed to reach that.

What possible chance would I have when you have already dismissed hundreds of conversations?

It is just folly and I am only repeating verbatim what leavers have said to me.

Plus you are still at University - one I also attended many years ago (I am female) so what you want from life at this stage is very different to what I want for myself and my family.

That is why we have democracy so everyone with all our different opinions and thoughts should hopefully get something.
 
mancan92 said:
That's because as I've said I've had hundreds of conversations with brexiteers and I haven't heard one single argument for it that is more positive. So sorry if I can bring 100 reasons why it's worse yet I ask someone for brexit to bring one reason and they can't. Please tell me one.
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Damn, I could give you one but I'm not for Brexit.
 
Djemba-Djemba said:
Right?

So what's this before and after view?

How were things better before joining the EU in 1973?
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It is not a before and after view as such it is more how complicated things became when legislation is tied in with other countries.
 
K13 said:
More positive? So you have a set of criteria and no one has managed to reach that.

What possible chance would I have when you have already dismissed hundreds of conversations?

It is just folly and I am only repeating verbatim what leavers have said to me.

Plus you are still at University - one I also attended many years ago (I am female) so what you want from life at this stage is very different to what I want for myself and my family.

That is why we have democracy so everyone with all our different opinions and thoughts should hopefully get something.
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The University thing is there as a joke from years ago on cafe. I finished uni just when I joined.

All I asked was for you to give me one single reason. That's showing why brexit is a more positive situation than we currently have. That should be the base level for making any decision in life you should be able to at least say one way your life will be better.
 
K13 said:
It is not a before and after view as such it is more how complicated things became when legislation is tied in with other countries.
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You've still not actually given any of the sensible reasons for leaving that you claim to have heard.

When leavers have told you why they left what were the actual reasons for it? Or did they just give you vague quotes about legislation?
 
mancan92 said:
The University thing is there as a joke from years ago on cafe. I finished uni just when I joined.

All I asked was for you to give me one single reason. That's showing why brexit is a more positive situation than we currently have. That should be the base level for making any decision in life you should be able to at least say one way your life will be better.
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Firstly if you had read my comment you will notice I voted to remain and the reason for my remain vote was I like the freedom of movement.

My comment was about respecting both sides, listening more to each other and a wish that the more extreme views could be dampened down. Compromise has to be the end game rather than doing what our politicians do and slandering each other with different opinions.
 
K13 said:
Firstly if you had read my comment you will notice I voted to remain and the reason for my remain vote was I like the freedom of movement.

My comment was about respecting both sides, listening more to each other and a wish that the more extreme views could be dampened down. Compromise has to be the end game rather than doing what our politicians do and slandering each other with different opinions.
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Do I feel sorry for some leavers? Yes many disenfranchised people who have had their livelihoods destroyed by capitalism. But have been lied to for decades about how it wasn't capitalism and greed but actually. The evil Europeans.

I feel for them that they got lied to for sure.
 
Djemba-Djemba said:
You've still not actually given any of the sensible reasons for leaving that you claim to have heard.

When leavers have told you why they left what were the actual reasons for it? Or did they just give you vague quotes about legislation?
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One of the things was there is trade to be had elsewhere rather than be tied into existing trade deals - India for instance produce a third of the world's medicines.
 
balaks said:
The truth is more likely to be that he simply does not care about it and would rather it just went away.
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Yeah probably a bit of both mate, must be in the its just a red herring camp.
 
WensleyMU said:
To be fair, I don't think the poster should have to answer the question because well, his answer would be meaningless due to he small fact of them not being in the government...

Unless of course, they are in the government, in which case...carry on.
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To be fair mate i doubt anyone who frequents this thread or forum for that matter is a current member of government. Every theory, question and answer etc posted in here will have no direct on anything.

But then maybe you have completely mistaken the point of an internet forum, in which case... carry on.
 
stevoc said:
To be fair mate i doubt anyone who frequents this thread or forum for that matter is a current member of government. Every theory, question and answer etc posted in here will have no direct on anything.

But then maybe you have completely mistaken the point of an internet forum, in which case... carry on.
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He can't.
 
mancan92 said:
Do I feel sorry for some leavers? Yes many disenfranchised people who have had their livelihoods destroyed by capitalism. But have been lied to for decades about how it wasn't capitalism and greed but actually. The evil Europeans.

I feel for them that they got lied to for sure.
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The problem with capitalism is it needs to be managed and controlled which it has not been. The case in point Thomas Cook and their executive pay when the company was floundering. That effects all of us apart from the top 0.01% and surely not a brexit issue unless you tell me differently.
 
Full bodied red said:
So it is the EU, not the UK, which insists on the Backstop ?

And which hundreds of UK politicians said is unacceptable to have one part of the UK treated differently than the rest of the UK, so no way was WDA including the backstop going to get through the HoC.

Cast your mind back about an hour ago - I said the EU insisted on conditions which would ensure the WDA would not be accepted in the HoC and the UK would remain trapped in the EU until.....

They're stupid but they saw an opening and grabbed it.
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Northern Ireland is already treated differently to the rest of the UK. Different Laws, customs checks on livestock/agricultural equipment between Britain and NI. The fact everyone (almost) has the right to citizenship of another territory.
 
K13 said:
More positive? So you have a set of criteria and no one has managed to reach that.

What possible chance would I have when you have already dismissed hundreds of conversations?

It is just folly and I am only repeating verbatim what leavers have said to me.

Plus you are still at University - one I also attended many years ago (I am female) so what you want from life at this stage is very different to what I want for myself and my family.

That is why we have democracy so everyone with all our different opinions and thoughts should hopefully get something.
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You can just share those arguments and let people decide whether it gives them food for thoughts?
 
K13 said:
One of the things was there is trade to be had elsewhere rather than be tied into existing trade deals - India for instance produce a third of the world's medicines.
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And you think India will give better terms to the UK rather than the larger EU market??
 
JPRouve said:
You can just share those arguments and let people decide whether it gives them food for thoughts?
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The problem is they are so intricate that I had to go away and research and I don't feel comfortable getting into the ins and outs on subjects that I am a novice on. Things like Trade deals, legislation, security and how the European parliament works.

I had never considered the fact that there would be cliques with each Country just working for their own means. I had this idealistic view that they would all work together for the common good.

Researching our imports and out and how we export far more to USA than we import.

Then obviously the disaster of the EUR.

The problem I was trying to address is the assumption that people who voted to leave are stupid.

There are some very, very clever thoughts on both sides.
 
K13 said:
One of the things was there is trade to be had elsewhere rather than be tied into existing trade deals - India for instance produce a third of the world's medicines.
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Wait what?

The EU have been trying to arrange a trade deal with India for about 10 years without success and you think Boris and his mob will be able to arrange a terrific deal for Britain with them?

That's the best reason you heard for leaving?
 
K13 said:
The problem with capitalism is it needs to be managed and controlled which it has not been. The case in point Thomas Cook and their executive pay when the company was floundering. That effects all of us apart from the top 0.01% and surely not a brexit issue unless you tell me differently.
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No it is a capitalism issue I agree 100% which is why I said I do feel sorry for many brexit supporters because instead of the government to put money into those societies they instead kept giving to the top 1% and blamed migrants.
 
K13 said:
The problem with capitalism is it needs to be managed and controlled which it has not been. The case in point Thomas Cook and their executive pay when the company was floundering. That effects all of us apart from the top 0.01% and surely not a brexit issue unless you tell me differently.
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State Capitalism is the last thing the west needs.

Executive pay in a publicly traded company is a board level decision. If you have government interfering there you won't have large companies domiciled in your country.
 
K13 said:
The problem is they are so intricate that I had to go away and research and I don't feel comfortable getting into the ins and outs on subjects that I am a novice on. Things like Trade deals, legislation, security and how the European parliament works.

I had never considered the fact that there would be cliques with each Country just working for their own means. I had this idealistic view that they would all work together for the common good.

Researching our imports and out and how we export far more to USA than we import.

Then obviously the disaster of the EUR.

The problem I was trying to address is the assumption that people who voted to leave are stupid.

There are some very, very clever thoughts on both sides.
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That's very vague, do you have a simple example or two?

Because the EU isn't a federation every country have individual policies and goals and will protect them within and outside the EU framework. I'm not too sure what EUR disaster is supposed to be. What do you mean by security, legislation or how the European parliament works?
 
Paul the Wolf said:
Go for it, waiting for over three years is a long time .
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Prisoners voting.

If you don't want that to be allowed then being out of the EU will prevent it from being forced on us against the vast majority of UK public opinion and the repeatedly expressed will of parliament.

I know it is not a show stopping reason but it is a reason. If you take the different line on it fine but the logic is clear the point is valid.

I've made it before but you still get people saying I haven't heard one reason why.

Well there it is.
 
K13 is obviously another one of those classic "oh I voted remain but here's a load of reasons why I'm lying and actually voted to leave" posters.
 
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